In Daniel 8, 11, and 12, is A4E meant? Or is a future anti-christ meant?

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covenantee

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I cannot violate scripture, even though you think that you can.

Again, there is only one "THE consummation".
2 Peter 3
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in STORE, RESERVED unto fire against
THE day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

We know that "it" refers to Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The text refers to its desolation which was made "until the consummation".

Jerusalem was eventually rebuilt, and exists today, so its desolation did not continue to be made.

It was made only "until the consummation".

The consummation of 70 AD.
 
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Davidpt

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How could 70 weeks be determined if the 70th week is not determined?

I find it bizarre that you ask that in light of the manner in which you interpret verse 27, that only the beginning through the middle of the 70th week is in view, and not also after the middle through the end. On no calculator can you add 69(verse 25) plus 1/2(verse 27 and your version of it) and then end up with 70 total. Is simple math above your comprehension level? Verse 25 and verse 27 combined are supposed to total 70 not 69 and 1/2. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? That is just basic 3rd grade math, that it takes 69 + 1 to = 70 and not 69 + 1/2 instead. Simple 3rd grade math alone debunks your view of verse 27. Math is never wrong, well except in your case since 69 + 1/2 does not = 70. Only 69 + 1 does, thus verse 25 + verse 27.

In the event any of this came across as insulting, I don't really care. And the reason why is simple. It is equally insulting to my intelligence that I am expected to believe that 69 + 1/2 = 70 rather that 69 + 1 = 70. IOW, verse 25 speaks of 69 entire weeks, and that verse 27 equally speaks of 1 entire week, and together that = 70 weeks not 69 and 1/2 weeks like you and others would have us believe. keeping in mind that you and some others are not applying everything recorded in verse 27 to that of the 70th week. You are only applying up unto this part to the 70th week--and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. Per your view, where then is the end of the 70th week in that verse? Oh, that's right, almost forgot, you all ripped the end of the 70th week plum right out of that verse and replaced it with total nonsense instead, that it is meaning 70 AD rather than the final half and the end of the 70th week.
 
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covenantee

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On no calculator can you add 69(verse 25) plus 1/2(verse 27 and your version of it) and then end up with 70 total. Is simple math above your comprehension level?
Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

That's not 1/2.

That's 1.

Can you count that high?

Or do you need a calculator? :laughing:
 
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Davidpt

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There is no indication that they would be fulfilled in the order listed, so this is just yet another weak argument from you.


LOL. Get serious. Nowhere does it indicate that the six things were listed in order of fulfillment. That's something you made up, just like you make up many things such as how you interpret Matthew 23:39. Are you still going to insist that my interpretation of that verse is wrong even though I showed how you take it out of context by denying that it's talking about people literally, physically seeing Jesus?


Right at the beginning of my post.


LOL. What in the world are you saying? Did you miss where I said "I believe Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled by the ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, so it was fulfilled well before 70 AD."? Did you not read the scriptures I posted that I believe relate to finishing the transgression? What I said and what those scriptures say has nothing to do with 70 AD, so why are you bringing that into it? If you actually read the passages I used to support my understanding of finishing the transgression you should see that it has to do with Jesus finishing what He came to do by sacrificing Himself for our transgressions. Jesus Himself said "It is finished" and Isaiah 53:8 says "he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.".


Of course I admit that, but you fail to do that every time you claim to do so. For example, you acted so sure that you debunked my understanding of Matthew 23:39 while failing to see that the context is clearly in relation to seeing Jesus physically. This is what you do over and over again. You claim to debunk something and then I debunk your supposed debunking.


What does? Your word salad above? Hardly.


Your understanding of what it means to finish the transgression is flawed. You fail to understand that only Jesus could fulfill the six things listed in Daniel 9:24. I'm not even sure what you're trying to say about how you think "to finish the transgression" will be fulfilled. How exactly do you think it will be fulfilled?


I've asked you multiple times now to tell me which of the six things in verse 24 you think have been fulfilled. This would have been a good time to answer that question, but you didn't do so. Can you tell me which of the six things you believe were already fulfilled and how they were fulfilled?


You mean like yourself?


It does not say that it wouldn't be finished until the end of the 70th week. It says a 70 week time period was determined or given in order for those things to be fulfilled before that time ended. That does not mean those six things aren't fulfilled until the last day of the 70th week. You read so many things into scripture that aren't there. What about the things that you do think were already fulfilled? Can I question why you would have them fulfilled within 69 1/2 weeks instead of at the end of the 70th week? How can any of the things be fulfilled using the logic you're using here in relation to finishing the transgression?


None. But, so what? How do you have any of them being fulfilled before the end of the 70 weeks? You shouldn't have any of it being fulfilled before the end of the 70 weeks using your logic. You're not even thinking here.


Yes, and I'm putting in far more effort than you are in considering what the prophecy is really all about while trying to use scripture to interpret scripture. You, in contrast, are making a minimal effort to understand it while mostly just using your own flawed imagination.


Yes, 70 weeks, which we agree equate to 490 years, were determined and the prophecy had to be completed within that time frame. You have twisted it to extend that time frame to around 2,500 years so far instead.

Let's try and keep it simple for now and mainly focus on this following part. The focus is this--Seventy weeks are determined upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression

A typical view which you may or may not hold is this, meaning you may or may not agree that Stephen's stoning marked the end of the 70 weeks. The 70th week began with Christ's ministry. Then following this, the middle of the week, Christ went to the cross. The remainder of the 70th week continued until the stoning of Stephen, thus the entire 70 weeks are fulfilled at this point. Assuming this view is supposed to be correct, now explain the following I'm going to ask below, with the cross through the stoning of Stephen in mind, which we will call the 2nd half of the 70th week. Which seems bizarre we should call it that when there is zero in verse 27 that supports that. But, for the sake of argument we will call it that, nonetheless.

Explain in what way, the fact the transgression against Jerusalem is supposed to be finished at this point, that the 2nd half of this week then solved, that some decades later Jerusalem will be attacked and destroyed? Explain how the 2nd half of the 70th week, which includes from the cross through the stoning of Stephen, solves that this same Jerusalem is yet again on the map as we speak? Keeping in mind, Christ rejecting Jews are once again occupying Jerusalem. Sounds like to me there is is still some transgressing taking place involving Jews and Jerusalem. But how could there be when verse 24 assures us, that once the 70 weeks are finished, all transgressions involving his people the Jews and their holy city Jerusalem, are also finished?

Don't you even grasp what a contradiction looks like when it is staring you straight in the face? All of these things, Jerusalem destroyed in 70 AD, Jerusalem once again on the map, do not agree with that the transgression involving Jerusalem is finished. It contradicts it instead.

Then there is this that I already brought up before.

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


It is absurd that the chronology looks like this--the transgression pertaining to the holy city, obviously meaning Jerusalem, is finished,
followed by this same Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 AD, followed by this same Jerusalem is once again on the map. So where do we fit
Zechariah 14:11 into this scenario? Surely, Zechariah 14:11 has to initially fit at the conclusion of this--Seventy weeks are determined upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, followed by Zechariah 14:11once the 70 weeks are finished. Except 70 AD clearly contradicts Zechariah 14:11 if it is fulfilled before 70 AD is.


Rather than the chronology looks like this instead. Jerusalem is destroyed in 70 AD, followed by Jerusalem is on the map again, and during when it is on the map again the final half of the 70th week is being fulfilled. Then once the final half runs it's course, it then leads to Zechariah 14:11 at that time, the new Jerusalem that comes down from God out of heaven. Surely, no reasonable thinking person could think Zechariah 14:11 can fit this age somehow?

Some might argue that God is done with that region and has nothing to do with it anymore.

What about the fact Christ has to bodily return and dwell somewhere? Where should we assume He might dwell? In the region he was born, or in a region where He wasn't born nor ever lived, such as the USA, Mexico, Canada, etc? It should be a no brainer since He has to dwell and take up residence somewhere. Obviously then, He would do that in the region He was born in and had lived there. From the very beginning that region was relevant. Where do you suppose the garden of Eden was located if not in that region?

I know, I know, there is this silly argument I guess I need to factor in here, therefore, that region is irrelevant from that point on, based on the following--John 4:20-24. Except John 4:20-24 has zero to do with after Christ has bodily returned. Those verses are pertaining to the here and now and are being applied spiritually. Why would John 4:20-24 still be applicable in the same manner once Christ has bodily returned? How does that make sense?
 

Davidpt

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Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

That's not 1/2.

That's 1.

Can you count that high?

Or do you need a calculator? :laughing:


explain how you are dealing with this part then? and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. Shall make what desolate, and for what reason? It makes zero sense to say that in that verse and then not even have anything in that verse explaining what is being desolated and why.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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My definition of a true amillennialist is someone who believes in the millennial kingdom spiritually, who will not interpret any Scripture with theories like 34 AD, 70 AD, the need for physical destruction of the temple, animal sacrifices, or Roman soldiers. Tony and I are in the same boat. Go read the rest of the articles (and other articles) —not just the first page. And beware, we do believe the same thing about Satan. hlf
Well, it's a good thing that no one cares about your definition of a true amillennialist then. Everyone else will go by a definition like the one your hero Tony Warren gave.

And, no, I'm not going to waste my time reading any more of his nonsense since it obviously is a lot of the same nonsense that you believe.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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TribuationSigns said:
I’ve learned the doctrines of Calvinism from many authors and sources. So tell me—why the sudden obsession with Tony Warren? Did he start charging you rent for living in your head?
I have no obsession with him whatsoever. You linked 3 of his articles and that made me realize that you must have learned your nonsense from him. I couldn't care less about what he thinks. It was just good to find out that he is your mentor, which explained some things.

Because of his age, he’s not as active as he used to be. He often tells me he’s too busy with other things. As for this forum, I’ll be retiring it soon after I launch my website, forum and YouTube channel later this year.
That's great news that you won't clog up any more space on this forum with your nonsense. How soon? This is exciting.

It would be good for you to be on a forum where you might actually find a few people who agree with your nonsense since no one here does.

Fair enough. I’ve known him for a long time, and I’m aware that most of his free time is now taken up with his studies and his forum. If you’d like to get his opinion, you can email him or join his forum—though unfortunately, it seems to be dominated lately by someone obsessed with politics. That’s all I can say.
I don't care to get his opinion.
 

Earburner

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Try reading what the text actually says. Then use Scripture in the book of Daniel to interpret Scripture.

First of all here is what the text actually says---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. Let's stop here for now. What needs to be asked and have an answer for, shall make what desolate? Obviously, this---and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. What else could it be referring to in that verse if not that? Obviously, this--and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate.--has to have a nearest antecedent. There has to be context nearby that explains it, and clearly 2 Peter 3:10 is not that context that explains it. What I have quoted from verse 27 thus far has zero to do with 2 Peter 3:10. Then look what else the text actually says---even until the consummation

Which seems to be telling us that he makes it desolate throughout the entire 2nd half of the 70th week even up to the consummation, the end of the 70th week, the end of the 70 weeks. That's where 2 Peter 3:10 fits in, not during this instead--and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate.

The next question is, in what way does he make it desolate? The keyword is desolate and that it is the Hebrew word shamem and is used in the following passages in the book of Daniel.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations(shamem) are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate(shamem), even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate(shamem).

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation(shamem), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate(shamem).

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate(shamem) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

One would have to be blind or have doctrinal bias' so severe to not see the connections here. Anyone who insists the desolation recorded in Daniel 9:27 is not the same desolation recorded in these other passages have reading comprehension issues in that case. And/or don't have a clue how Scripture interpreting Scripture actually works, regardless that they might insist they interpret Scripture with Scripture. OK then, so why isn't that same one interpreting Scripture with Scripture in this case, assuming they insist there is zero connection with the desolation recorded in Daniel 9:27 with that of these other passages I submitted?

On a side note. Most in here can write and formulate their thoughts better than I can, but even so, I feel I surpass them in reading comprehension a lot of the time, so maybe not every time, yet a lot of the time, regardless. I would rather have better reading comprehension than better writing skills, if in my case I can't have both. I'm not saying others can't have both. I'm only meaning in my case. The point being, good reading comprehension trumps good writing skills. One doesn't have to have good writing skills in order to have good reading comprehension, being another point.
Albeit you did tackle the literal meanings of the biblical words well in Dan. 9 24-27, but you missed the cultural meanings of the words, which deliver us to the fulness of God's Mind by His Holy Spirit.
It's not by the grammatical words alone that we learn God's truth, but by His Spirit, who gives them Life.

From my post #468:
Please notice that all "desolations", that are less than 2 Peter ch. 3, are NOT "the consummation" in Dan. 9:27.

Please read it again:
"....even until [upto] the consummation".
Therefore the temple building that once was in Jerusalem shall never be rebuilt again.
For how long?? "Even until [upto] the consummation, aka the complete end of all things in this world, as well as the earth itself.
 

covenantee

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explain how you are dealing with this part then? and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. Shall make what desolate, and for what reason? It makes zero sense to say that in that verse and then not even have anything in that verse explaining what is being desolated and why.
Shall make "Jerusalem, Jerusalem" desolate because "thou knewest not the time of thy visitation." Matthew 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Let's try and keep it simple for now and mainly focus on this following part. The focus is this--Seventy weeks are determined upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression

A typical view which you may or may not hold is this, meaning you may or may not agree that Stephen's stoning marked the end of the 70 weeks. The 70th week began with Christ's ministry. Then following this, the middle of the week, Christ went to the cross. The remainder of the 70th week continued until the stoning of Stephen, thus the entire 70 weeks are fulfilled at this point. Assuming this view is supposed to be correct, now explain the following I'm going to ask below, with the cross through the stoning of Stephen in mind, which we will call the 2nd half of the 70th week. Which seems bizarre we should call it that when there is zero in verse 27 that supports that. But, for the sake of argument we will call it that, nonetheless.

Explain in what way, the fact the transgression against Jerusalem is supposed to be finished at this point, that the 2nd half of this week then solved, that some decades later Jerusalem will be attacked and destroyed? Explain how the 2nd half of the 70th week, which includes from the cross through the stoning of Stephen, solves that this same Jerusalem is yet again on the map as we speak? Keeping in mind, Christ rejecting Jews are once again occupying Jerusalem. Sounds like to me there is is still some transgressing taking place involving Jews and Jerusalem. But how could there be when verse 24 assures us, that once the 70 weeks are finished, all transgressions involving his people the Jews and their holy city Jerusalem, are also finished?

Don't you even grasp what a contradiction looks like when it is staring you straight in the face? All of these things, Jerusalem destroyed in 70 AD, Jerusalem once again on the map, do not agree with that the transgression involving Jerusalem is finished. It contradicts it instead.

Then there is this that I already brought up before.

Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.


It is absurd that the chronology looks like this--the transgression pertaining to the holy city, obviously meaning Jerusalem, is finished,
followed by this same Jerusalem being destroyed in 70 AD, followed by this same Jerusalem is once again on the map. So where do we fit
Zechariah 14:11 into this scenario? Surely, Zechariah 14:11 has to initially fit at the conclusion of this--Seventy weeks are determined upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, followed by Zechariah 14:11once the 70 weeks are finished. Except 70 AD clearly contradicts Zechariah 14:11 if it is fulfilled before 70 AD is.


Rather than the chronology looks like this instead. Jerusalem is destroyed in 70 AD, followed by Jerusalem is on the map again, and during when it is on the map again the final half of the 70th week is being fulfilled. Then once the final half runs it's course, it then leads to Zechariah 14:11 at that time, the new Jerusalem that comes down from God out of heaven. Surely, no reasonable thinking person could think Zechariah 14:11 can fit this age somehow?

Some might argue that God is done with that region and has nothing to do with it anymore.

What about the fact Christ has to bodily return and dwell somewhere? Where should we assume He might dwell? In the region he was born, or in a region where He wasn't born nor ever lived, such as the USA, Mexico, Canada, etc? It should be a no brainer since He has to dwell and take up residence somewhere. Obviously then, He would do that in the region He was born in and had lived there. From the very beginning that region was relevant. Where do you suppose the garden of Eden was located if not in that region?

I know, I know, there is this silly argument I guess I need to factor in here, therefore, that region is irrelevant from that point on, based on the following--John 4:20-24. Except John 4:20-24 has zero to do with after Christ has bodily returned. Those verses are pertaining to the here and now and are being applied spiritually. Why would John 4:20-24 still be applicable in the same manner once Christ has bodily returned? How does that make sense?
How about actually addressing the points I made and answering the questions I asked in my post instead of trying to change the topic? You didn't specifically address one single thing I said in my post, which is typical of you. But, you expect me to specifically address your points. You have no idea of how to have a discussion.

I addressed your point about not taking the six things in Daniel 9:24 in the order listed and you say nothing in response to what I said about that.

I pointed out that the verses I quoted in support of my understanding of Daniel 9:24 have nothing to do with 70 AD and you say nothing in response to that.

I asked you how exactly you think "to finish the transgression" will be fulfilled and you didn't answer that question.

I asked you for the third time to tell me which of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled and you didn't answer that question.

I asked how you can think anything mentioned in Daniel 9:24 could be fulfilled yet with the way you say it can't be possible for finishing the transgression to be fulfilled before the end of the 70th week. How can you have any of the things listed fulfilled before the end of the 70th week in that case?

You don't address anything I say and you try to change the narrative and then expect me to address all of your points. It's ridiculous. I'm not going to do that unless you specifically address at least one or two of my points and/or answer one or two of the questions I asked first.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I find it bizarre that you ask that in light of the manner in which you interpret verse 27, that only the beginning through the middle of the 70th week is in view, and not also after the middle through the end. On no calculator can you add 69(verse 25) plus 1/2(verse 27 and your version of it) and then end up with 70 total. Is simple math above your comprehension level? Verse 25 and verse 27 combined are supposed to total 70 not 69 and 1/2. Why is that so difficult to comprehend? That is just basic 3rd grade math, that it takes 69 + 1 to = 70 and not 69 + 1/2 instead. Simple 3rd grade math alone debunks your view of verse 27. Math is never wrong, well except in your case since 69 + 1/2 does not = 70. Only 69 + 1 does, thus verse 25 + verse 27.

In the event any of this came across as insulting, I don't really care. And the reason why is simple. It is equally insulting to my intelligence that I am expected to believe that 69 + 1/2 = 70 rather that 69 + 1 = 70. IOW, verse 25 speaks of 69 entire weeks, and that verse 27 equally speaks of 1 entire week, and together that = 70 weeks not 69 and 1/2 weeks like you and others would have us believe. keeping in mind that you and some others are not applying everything recorded in verse 27 to that of the 70th week. You are only applying up unto this part to the 70th week--and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. Per your view, where then is the end of the 70th week in that verse? Oh, that's right, almost forgot, you all ripped the end of the 70th week plum right out of that verse and replaced it with total nonsense instead, that it is meaning 70 AD rather than the final half and the end of the 70th week.
When do you plan to address the fact that you turn a determined 70 weeks (490 years) time period during which the things listed in Daniel 9:24 would be fulfilled into at least a 2,500 year time period during which those things would be fulfilled instead? Are you just afraid to address that? There is no basis whatsoever for inserting a 2,000+ year gap into the 70 weeks. There's no way around that. That's something invented by dispensationalism that you have bought into.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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explain how you are dealing with this part then? and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. Shall make what desolate, and for what reason? It makes zero sense to say that in that verse and then not even have anything in that verse explaining what is being desolated and why.
The city and the sanctuary, of course. Because of the Jews rejecting Christ. Why do you make simple things complicated? Do you just ignore verse 26 when interpreting verse 27?

What covenant do you believe Daniel 9:27 is referring to? The new covenant? If so, how can you think that it hasn't already been fully confirmed?
 
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Earburner

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Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

We know that "it" refers to Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The text refers to its desolation which was made "until the consummation".

Jerusalem was eventually rebuilt, and exists today, so its desolation did not continue to be made.

It was made only "until the consummation".

The consummation of 70 AD.
Ummmm...the Temple rebuild was the issue, and still is the issue!!
God has decreed that it will never be built again [Luke 19:44], "even until [upto] the consummation", as shown in 2 Peter ch. 3.
 
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Earburner

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Shall make "Jerusalem, Jerusalem" desolate because "thou knewest not the time of thy visitation." Matthew 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44
Desolate: void of God.
Who in Israel, at that time, would ever think that Israel would be void of God and then become "of that spirit of antichrist"?
 

amigo de christo

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The city and the sanctuary, of course. Because of the Jews rejecting Christ. Why do you make simple things complicated? Do you just ignore verse 26 when interpreting verse 27?

What covenant do you believe Daniel 9:27 is referring to? The new covenant? If so, how can you think that it hasn't already been fully confirmed?
when you read his response about the temple being rebuilt
BE SURE and quoate AMOS
who james quaoted when he was showing this HEAVENLY TEMPLE .
Folks think that amos was talking about the rebuilding of the earthen temple .
OH NO HE was not . GO to and behold the book of acts
and watch james remind them all about the very words of AMOS
about the building again OF THE TABERNACLE that had fallen . AND SEE what james says .
MANY LOOK to the earthen
many cling to dispensationlisms
many cling to many things
WHICH DO NOT CONFIRM THE TRUTH AT ALL .
THERE BE ONE KINGDOM . ONE . AND ITS HEAVENLY , ITS JERSUALEM BE ABOVE
the MOUNT ZION OF GOD , WHEREIN the TEMPLE is GOD AND THE LAMB .
Many cling to the earthen
many run to the jews of the flesh for the solution of world peace
Many cling to what ought not to have been clinged unto . IT BE BIBLE TIME IN THE BUILIDNG
and IT BE TIME for folks to start afresh and anew IN that lovely book
to learn for themselves TRUTH .
 
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amigo de christo

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Shall make "Jerusalem, Jerusalem" desolate because "thou knewest not the time of thy visitation." Matthew 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44
Desolate it was made . And made desolate it was .
HERE IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD . the one that even amos talked about
when he too spoke and prophesied of the rebuilding of the tabernacle that had fallen
WHICH JAMES HIMSELF quoates when talking about THE heavenly and the gospel .
HERE IS THE KINGDOM OF GOD ALL MIGHTY and OF THE LAMB .
Ye have come unto MOUNT ZION , unto the HEAVENLY JERSUALEM , Mother to us all .
WHEREIN JOHN saw no temple FOR GOD AND THE LAMB are the temple .
Many run to the earthen
many sit under dispen this and dispen that
And seek the earthen and cling to the jews of the flesh
Believing in the time of great peace and heeding the voice of interafith and its VERY BROAD ROAD
which includes ALL false religoins , making claims WE all serve the same GOD .
IT HAS DENIED CHRIST JESUS
IT HAS led this people to a meger under what they beleive is love , is of GOD
and will usher upon them peace n safety . OH its gonna usher upon them something all right .
BUT IT WONT Be the PEACE promised by the voice of he who comes and destroys many THROUGH peace .
ITS GONNA BE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION From on HIGH , FROM GOD AND THE LAMB upon them
WHOM THEY and their lovey do and their peace n unity and intefaith DENIED .
JESUS DIDNT COME to BRING peace on earth .
But i sure know of another who does and who will , and in his own name exalting himself above
GOD decieves THIS PEOPLE right into A FAT ANTI CHRIST LIE they all think is love and is of GOD
and shall usher upon them a great UTOPIA . OH how i shudder for this generation . HOW i shudder for them indeed .
 

Spiritual Israelite

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when you read his response about the temple being rebuilt
BE SURE and quoate AMOS
who james quaoted when he was showing this HEAVENLY TEMPLE .
Folks think that amos was talking about the rebuilding of the earthen temple .
OH NO HE was not . GO to and behold the book of acts
and watch james remind them all about the very words of AMOS
about the building again OF THE TABERNACLE that had fallen . AND SEE what james says .
MANY LOOK to the earthen
many cling to dispensationlisms
many cling to many things
WHICH DO NOT CONFIRM THE TRUTH AT ALL .
THERE BE ONE KINGDOM . ONE . AND ITS HEAVENLY , ITS JERSUALEM BE ABOVE
the MOUNT ZION OF GOD , WHEREIN the TEMPLE is GOD AND THE LAMB .
Many cling to the earthen
many run to the jews of the flesh for the solution of world peace
Many cling to what ought not to have been clinged unto . IT BE BIBLE TIME IN THE BUILIDNG
and IT BE TIME for folks to start afresh and anew IN that lovely book
to learn for themselves TRUTH .
What does any of this have to do with anything I said or with Daniel 9:26-27?
 
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covenantee

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Ummmm...the Temple rebuild was the issue, and still is the issue!!
God has decreed that it will never be built again [Luke 19:44], "even until [upto] the consummation", as shown in 2 Peter ch. 3.
Luke 19:44 refers to the city of Jerusalem. Luke 19:41. God did not say that the city will never be built again. Obviously it has been rebuilt. But you are correct that the temple will never be built again. Here's what happened the last time they tried in 363 AD.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
 
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