In-depth Bible Study on Eternal Punishment

[stunnedbygrace]

A verse to remember re Rahab: -

Matthew 1:5-6: - 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.​

Rehab, in Matthew is given a place of honour in the genealogy of Christ along with Ruth and Bathsheba.

Oh well, how the scriptures are twisted to say whatever.

You are so nasty sometimes! Discussion is difficult with you because of it. What I read tells me Rahab was a Canaanite prostitute who informed the spies that she and her people were in great fear over the Israelites because they’d heard what their God had done for them at the Red Sea. She hides them, saving their lives, and asks them to spare her family when they invade. They did not kill her family and then she lived among them. What the heck is it that I have twisted? You would assume that if she lived among them she came to worship their God and maybe married one of them. Yes, she became part of Jesus’ genealogy later.
What the heck have I twisted? Sheesh!

 

[quietthinker]

You are so nasty sometimes! Discussion is difficult with you because of it. What I read tells me Rahab was a Canaanite prostitute who informed the spies that she and her people were in great fear over the Israelites because they’d heard what their God had done for them at the Red Sea. She hides them, saving their lives, and asks them to spare her family when they invade. They did not kill her family and then she lived among them. What the heck is it that I have twisted? You would assume that if she lived among them she came to worship their God and maybe married one of them. Yes, she became part of Jesus’ genealogy later.
What the heck have I twisted? Sheesh!

lol....thanks for your authenticity sbg.

 

[Phoneman777]

For anyone interested in a Biblically based study on The State of the Dead and The Reward of the Wicked, please feel free to view the following videos:

AFTER DEATH, THEN WHAT?

WHEN AND WHERE IS HELL?

 

[whitemorning]

I started reading the Bible, I learned a lot of interesting and useful things there. I think it is worth studying because it is a book of books. Just like you need to study in college. And don't forget to use help httрs://us.grаdeminеrs.com/ It will save your nerves and time

 

[MatthewG]

That’s awesome

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

For anyone interested in a Biblically based study on The State of the Dead and The Reward of the Wicked, please feel free to view the following videos:

AFTER DEATH, THEN WHAT?

WHEN AND WHERE IS HELL?

I didn't look at the videos so I don't know what they said. But I honestly believe if a person wants to know the truth about the state of the dead, we should read and study the scriptures and agree with what they say. I understand that many say they are reading and studying God's word and agreeing with what it says, but I ask myself, are they?
For example, at Genesis 2:7 this scripture teaches me how the True God created the first human being. What I find in this scripture is that when this scripture says God took dust from the ground and formed man, that means that God took dust from the ground and he formed a flesh and blood human body then he blew the breath(spirit) of life into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body "Became" a living soul or living person.
So I don't see going by this scripture that it teaches us that the True God gave the flesh and blood human body a living soul or that God gave the flesh and blood human body a living person, because the word BECAME is there in Genesis 2:7 not GAVE.
What I see Genesis 2:7 teaching us, is that when the breath(spirit) of Life wasn't blown into the flesh and blood human body yet, not only was the flesh and blood human body not a living soul or living person, but neither was the breath(spirit) of life a living soul or living person, when this breath(spirit) of life was on it's own, separated from the flesh and blood human body.
Genesis 2:7 teaches us, It was after God blew the breath(spirit) of life into the flesh and blood human body that the flesh and blood human body BECAME a living soul, or living person. So when the breath(spirit) of life is no longer in the flesh and blood human body no living soul or living person exists. So how can a living soul or living person exist when the scripture at Genesis 2:7 is being very clear that the breath(spirit) of life when on it's own separate from the flesh and blood human body isn't a living soul or living person. There's no living soul or living person in existence to be able to go anywhere.

 

[Phoneman777]

I didn't look at the videos so I don't know what they said. But I honestly believe if a person wants to know the truth about the state of the dead, we should read and study the scriptures and agree with what they say. I understand that many say they are reading and studying God's word and agreeing with what it says, but I ask myself, are they?
For example, at Genesis 2:7 this scripture teaches me how the True God created the first human being. What I find in this scripture is that when this scripture says God took dust from the ground and formed man, that means that God took dust from the ground and he formed a flesh and blood human body then he blew the breath(spirit) of life into that flesh and blood human body and that flesh and blood human body "Became" a living soul or living person.
So I don't see going by this scripture that it teaches us that the True God gave the flesh and blood human body a living soul or that God gave the flesh and blood human body a living person, because the word BECAME is there in Genesis 2:7 not GAVE.
What I see Genesis 2:7 teaching us, is that when the breath(spirit) of Life wasn't blown into the flesh and blood human body yet, not only was the flesh and blood human body not a living soul or living person, but neither was the breath(spirit) of life a living soul or living person, when this breath(spirit) of life was on it's own, separated from the flesh and blood human body.
Genesis 2:7 teaches us, It was after God blew the breath(spirit) of life into the flesh and blood human body that the flesh and blood human body BECAME a living soul, or living person. So when the breath(spirit) of life is no longer in the flesh and blood human body no living soul or living person exists. So how can a living soul or living person exist when the scripture at Genesis 2:7 is being very clear that the breath(spirit) of life when on it's own separate from the flesh and blood human body isn't a living soul or living person. There's no living soul or living person in existence to be able to go anywhere.

That's exactly what the videos teach - that man does not "possess" a living soul or that he was "given" a living soul, but he BECAME a living soul, as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life, which at death, the reverse takes place: Breath returns to God, body to dust, and the living soul CEASES TO EXIST until the one or the other of the two resurrections.

The videos are here to help people understand the "problem" texts which they claim support "natural immortality of the soul" such as the Rich Man and Lazarus, "absent from the body/present with the Lord", etc. I was never happier when I discovered the truth about the State of the Dead because it solved for me a decades long, irreconcilable contradiction which kept God at the peripheral of my life: HOW CAN A GOD THAT LOVED THE WORD SO MUCH THAT HE GAVE US HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TURN AROUND AND CONSIGN THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO DESPISE THAT LOVE TO AN ETERNITY OF UNSPEAKABLY AGONIZING FIERY TORMENT, WHICH ONLY A SADISTIC, HATE-FILLED, CONTROL FREAK GOD WOULD DO?

(Then I realized the answer is found in Psychology 101: Projection. That sadistic, hate-filled, control freak Satan by virtue of the doctrine of Eternal Torment has projected HIS OWN SICK, HOPELESSLY IRREPARABLE CHARACTER upon that of our loving heavenly Father and both paganism and Christianity has swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.)

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That's exactly what the videos teach - that man does not "possess" a living soul or that he was "given" a living soul, but he BECAME a living soul, as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life, which at death, the reverse takes place: Breath returns to God, body to dust, and the living soul CEASES TO EXIST until the one or the other of the two resurrections.

The videos are here to help people understand the "problem" texts which they claim support "natural immortality of the soul" such as the Rich Man and Lazarus, "absent from the body/present with the Lord", etc. I was never happier when I discovered the truth about the State of the Dead because it solved for me a decades long, irreconcilable contradiction which kept God at the peripheral of my life: HOW CAN A GOD THAT LOVED THE WORD SO MUCH THAT HE GAVE US HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TURN AROUND AND CONSIGN THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO DESPISE THAT LOVE TO AN ETERNITY OF UNSPEAKABLY AGONIZING FIERY TORMENT, WHICH ONLY A SADISTIC, HATE-FILLED, CONTROL FREAK GOD WOULD DO?

(Then I realized the answer is found in Psychology 101: Projection. That sadistic, hate-filled, control freak Satan by virtue of the doctrine of Eternal Torment has projected HIS OWN SICK, HOPELESSLY IRREPARABLE CHARACTER upon that of our loving heavenly Father and both paganism and Christianity has swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.)

I agree that it's Satan and his demons who have influenced mankind generally speaking to believe human beings have immortal souls. By influencing the general population to believe this he has convinced mankind to believe what he convinced Eve to believe, that there is no death.

 

[Phoneman777]

My absolute favorite line in the second video, "WHEN AND WHERE IS HELL":

"DON'T YOU SEE, FRIENDS, IT IS CLEAR THAT THERE CANNOT BE A NEVER-ENDING HELL IF THERE IS NO NEVER-ENDING SINNER.

"IF THE SOUL THAT SINNETH SHALL DIE (EZEKIEL 18:4 KJV),
AND IF THE WICKED DO NOT POSSESS IMMORTALITY (ROMANS 2:5-9),
AND IF THE WICKED DOES NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE (1 JOHN 2:17 KJV)
AND IF NO MURDERER HATH ETERNAL LIFE (1 JOHN 3:15 KJV), HOW CAN HE HAVE ETERNAL SUFFERING?

 

[Phoneman777]

I agree that it's Satan and his demons who have influenced mankind generally speaking to believe human beings have immortal souls. By influencing the general population to believe this he has convinced mankind to believe what he convinced Eve to believe, that there is no death.

You speak truth, friend, and those who love the truth are always glad to hear it. We need more Jeremiahs today who cannot help but raise their voices against the prevailing winds of false doctrine, no matter how much they try to keep silent.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello everybody I don’t care what you believe about hell or eternal punishment, or immortal soul.

Let me tell you something Jesus had a victory now today.

If you don’t believe that when you die you’re resurrected, that’s fine. You have to believe that stay in tIf you don’t believe that, when you die, you’re resurrected, that’s fine. You don’t have to believe it. You can stay dead in the grave.

Everyone is resurrected everyone has their own bringing up to Jesus, wear their judged and giving a spiritual body at Resurrection day. There’s a spiritual resurrection of condemnation where people live outside the kingdom and there’s a big people that are of faith or resurrected into laughing they go inside of the kingdom. It’s that easy in that simple if you just read the word of God and just look and see what it has a say, take Jesus words for what they are.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello everybody I don’t care what you believe about hell or eternal punishment, or immortal soul.

Let me tell you something Jesus had a victory now today.

If you don’t believe that when you die you’re resurrected, that’s fine. You have to believe that stay in tIf you don’t believe that, when you die, you’re resurrected, that’s fine. You don’t have to believe it. You can stay dead in the grave.

Everyone is resurrected everyone has their own bringing up to Jesus, wear their judged and giving a spiritual body at Resurrection day. There’s a spiritual resurrection of condemnation where people live outside the kingdom and there’s a big people that are of faith or resurrected into laughing they go inside of the kingdom. It’s that easy in that simple if you just read the word of God and just look and see what it has a say, take Jesus words for what they are.

And I don’t give a heck to debate any of you. I don’t want to debate any of you because doctrine is how division starts.

Say a church group says that you must wear to church socks, and then you would have a group that would be rebellious and a group that we can assume that would a abide by what was told to them to do.

Then you have people who are super prideful that they wear socks, and you have those who are rebellious and you have this in fighting bull crap that goes on.

Stuff happens every single day online. It’s just a whole bunch of noise.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hello everybody I don’t care what you believe about hell or eternal punishment, or immortal soul.

Let me tell you something Jesus had a victory now today.

If you don’t believe that when you die you’re resurrected, that’s fine. You have to believe that stay in tIf you don’t believe that, when you die, you’re resurrected, that’s fine. You don’t have to believe it. You can stay dead in the grave.

Everyone is resurrected everyone has their own bringing up to Jesus, wear their judged and giving a spiritual body at Resurrection day. There’s a spiritual resurrection of condemnation where people live outside the kingdom and there’s a big people that are of faith or resurrected into laughing they go inside of the kingdom. It’s that easy in that simple if you just read the word of God and just look and see what it has a say, take Jesus words for what they are.

Hi, our beliefs in death and hell should be our concern... it's a direct reflection of what we think of God.

Is He a sadistic, tyrannical, manipulative, adolescent control freak Who reacts with infinite indignation and extremism against those who would spurn His advances/invitation - the consignment of them to unspeakable agony of eternal torment...

...or, does he, like us, look with pity upon the hopelessly leg-injured horse or a rabid pet dog that is beyond our help and desire to put them out of their misery instead of prolonging their suffering?

The former idea represents the character of its fabricator - Satan - while the latter idea represents that of our loving Father Who has been framed by him as the author of this despicable nonsense - even though Jesus has plainly told us "if ye have seen Me, ye have seen the Father" and asks us to consider whether anything He ever said or did suggests He would do such a thing to the impenitent wicked.

Now, if objections to "eternal torment" were based solely on philosophical arguments with no possibility of alternative Scriptural interpretations of "proof texts" for the idea, this would simply be a case of "man's wisdom vs. God's wisdom" which would be nothing more than futile exercise. However, there is not a single point of argument the Eternal Torment crowd offers that cannot reasonably be shown as either wrongly interpreted or flat out incorrect. I respectfully defy anyone, Christian or not, to present anything from Scripture that incontrovertibly substantiates Eternal Torment doctrine.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Continued from post #4

So what is this Lake of Fire? Revelation describes it in one sentence: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."



Everyone of us experiences the first death. 1 Corinthians 15:22 says it - "For as in Adam all die,"

But not everyone will experience the second death. Who experiences this second death? what is it and is it eternal?

Revelation tells us plainly who will experience the second death.

Revelation 20:15 says, speaking of those people in that day and age:

- "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (And we know that this is considered the second death).

• Let's pause here and gather up our thoughts in summary. Since hell will give up its dead, we cannot say (and be correct) that hell is eternal.
• No matter how tormenting and dark the holding tank may be, it will end, and all those in it will be brought forth the great white throne and will be judged. This has occurred at the end of the age.
• If their names were NOT found written in the Lambs Book of Life, they were to be cast into the Lake of Fire which was not created for them! It was created for Satan and his angels. Therefore, is the Lake of Fire eternal? We will see.

You did not do an in depth study of eternal punishment. If you did you would know it is real. Being cast into the lake of fire is not the second death. Death and hell(sheol/hades/graves) being thrown into the lake of fire is the second death! That is what the bible teaches.

 

[MatthewG]

Hi, our beliefs in death and hell should be our concern... it's a direct reflection of what we think of God.

Is He a sadistic, tyrannical, manipulative, adolescent control freak Who reacts with infinite indignation and extremism against those who would spurn His advances/invitation - the consignment of them to unspeakable agony of eternal torment...

...or, does he, like us, look with pity upon the hopelessly leg-injured horse or a rabid pet dog that is beyond our help and desire to put them out of their misery instead of prolonging their suffering?

The former idea represents the character of its fabricator - Satan - while the latter idea represents that of our loving Father Who has been framed by him as the author of this despicable nonsense - even though Jesus has plainly told us "if ye have seen Me, ye have seen the Father" and asks us to consider whether anything He ever said or did suggests He would do such a thing to the impenitent wicked.

Now, if objections to "eternal torment" were based solely on philosophical arguments with no possibility of alternative Scriptural interpretations of "proof texts" for the idea, this would simply be a case of "man's wisdom vs. God's wisdom" which would be nothing more than futile exercise. However, there is not a single point of argument the Eternal Torment crowd offers that cannot reasonably be shown as either wrongly interpreted or flat out incorrect. I respectfully defy anyone, Christian or not, to present anything from Scripture that incontrovertibly substantiates Eternal Torment doctrine.

You did not do an in depth study of eternal punishment. If you did you would know it is real. Being cast into the lake of fire is not the second death. Death and hell(sheol/hades/graves) being thrown into the lake of fire is the second death! That is what the bible teaches.

I’m just saying, that there is no eternal punishment in the sense of people being burned alive forever and ever and ever and God being satisfied with that.

There is some type of loss, if you resurrected in a condemned body.


But I do believe people live on the outside of the kingdom of God and inside of the kingdom of God.

What you take from this is up to you; as I don’t care at the end; if you believe that people suffer like the first sentence.


I don’t understand why a person would worship such a God.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus has had the victory and hell is done did away with.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I’m just saying, that there is no eternal punishment in the sense of people being burned alive forever and ever and ever and God being satisfied with that.

There is some type of loss, if you resurrected in a condemned body.


But I do believe people live on the outside of the kingdom of God and inside of the kingdom of God.

What you take from this is up to you; as I don’t care at the end; if you believe that people suffer like the first sentence.


I don’t understand why a person would worship such a God.

So you do not believe what God wrote through His inspired writers. You wish to reinterpret it according to........???

Jesus spoke of living in flames, the angels spoke of living in flames and the end of the book speak of people being cast into a lake of flames.

If you believe it is totally different- show with what authority how you are able to reinterpret these passages for them to mean something else.

We worship this god of the Bible because He is worthy of our worship and adoration.

 

[Phoneman777]

I’m just saying, that there is no eternal punishment in the sense of people being burned alive forever and ever and ever and God being satisfied with that. There is some type of loss, if you resurrected in a condemned body.

Let's define terms: "immortal body" means "body not subject to death" and "mortal body" means "body that is subject to death". You can't suffer the "Second Death" unless you have a mortal body with which to suffer it - therefore, the wicked come up in the Resurrection of the Damned with the same old diseased ridden, broken, decayed mortal bodies.

But I do believe people live on the outside of the kingdom of God and inside of the kingdom of God.

Yes, the righteous will have both a mansion and an country home and garden - the wicked come up in the Resurrection of the Damned, condemned, and cast into the Lake of Fire where they pass out of existence, with the devil burning the longest because he's guilty of far more than the rest of us.

What you take from this is up to you; as I don’t care at the end; if you believe that people suffer like the first sentence.

The ONLY interpretation that makes sense is Annihilation. Eternal Torment destroys the loving character of God and makes Him a more hellish, maniacal tyrant than Satan could ever be (Satan will come to an end, but God is eternal).

I don’t understand why a person would worship such a God.

I feel the same way about it. A God Who simply blots the wicked out of existence and out of their misery (Proverbs 13:15 KJV) is a good God and a loving God. A god who tortures his creatures throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity comes from the mind of the enemy.

 

[MatthewG]

Let's define terms: "immortal body" means "body not subject to death" and "mortal body" means "body that is subject to death". You can't suffer the "Second Death" unless you have a mortal body with which to suffer it - therefore, the wicked come up in the Resurrection of the Damned with the same old diseased ridden, broken, decayed mortal bodies.

Talking about the soul, the body is the clay it dies.

Yes, the righteous will have both a mansion and an country home and garden - the wicked come up in the Resurrection of the Damned, condemned, and cast into the Lake of Fire where they pass out of existence, with the devil burning the longest because he's guilty of far more than the rest of us.

The ONLY interpretation that makes sense is Annihilation. Eternal Torment destroys the loving character of God and makes Him a more hellish, maniacal tyrant than Satan could ever be (Satan will come to an end, but God is eternal).

I feel the same way about it. A God Who simply blots the wicked out of existence and out of their misery (Proverbs 13:15 KJV) is a good God and a loving God. A god who tortures his creatures throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity comes from the mind of the enemy.

Okay.

 

[Phoneman777]

Talking about the soul, the body is the clay it dies.

The Soul, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life, and subsequently ceases to exist when the body returns to the dust and the breath of life returns to God just as it was when it came forth from Him.

Any ideas about a "disembodied soul" existence is purely paganism dragged into Christianity by the papal Antichrist during the Dark Ages when every stripe and type of paganism was baptized as "Christian" including Easter, Christmas, 40 days of Lent, innate immortality of the soul, eternal torment, Sunday sacredness, etc. It's a fact of history.

Okay.

So, you agree that there can't be any eternal torment of the sinner if there is no eternal existence of the sinner? That's what Scripture says.