In exile from the church - disconnected from what?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
8,518
3,847
113
68
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Spyder
You may be interested in this from the OP. (post #1)

Anyway, back to the statistics. The Washington Post had an article about "dechurching",
based on a book written by Jim Davis and Michael Graham. Here's an article quote.
"The study included a survey of 1,043 Americans to determine the scope of dechurching — which was defined as
having attended service at least once a month in the past and now attending less than once a year.
That initial survey found that about 15% of Americans are dechurched." Source
This survey, at least, seems to indicate that the number is SOME, rather than MANY.

/
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I have found snippets of this book and have observed that they are researching about people leaving organized religious churches. If have no clue about their concern for the growth of "home churches" or even "zoom churches."
I have zero problem with Christians leaving the non-profit businesses in order to spend time with fellow believers discussing scriptures and having fellowship outside of membership-related organisations.
Yes, this is how Christianity began....meeting in people’s homes in small groups. Paul also used the synagogue to instruct those who responded to his preaching concerning Jesus. At one stage, after they were forced from the synagogue due to opposition, Paul continued his instruction in a school auditorium. (Acts 19:8-10)

The building is not the church.....it’s the congregation. And all must be of one mind, with the same truth embraced by all. (1Cor 1:10) There are not many versions of the truth...there can be only one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
At first, I thought they were discussing the great falling away. Well, perhaps it is, but maybe it is falling away from the church that man built.
The question then is....”who or what is “Babylon the great”?
We are told in no certain terms to remove ourselves from that immoral entity. She is pictured as a harlot, who is “in bed” with God’s enemies, and has always had the political and commercial world to do her bidding....but in these last days, those who can identify her have to act before God does....(Rev 18:4-5)
She is going down!

She is an integral part of satan’s rulership over this earth.....he has three main elements with which he controls this world.....corrupt political, greedy commercialism and false religion....all three components are under his complete influence, so all of humanity are unwittingly kept under his control by means of these three key elements. It’s why Jesus said we must be “no part of the world”. (John 17:16)

“Babylon the great” is mourned by both the political and commercials elements, even though it is the political elements that attack her. (Rev 18:9-11) Therefore, BtG has to be a grander global version of what original Babylon was. The means by which false religion was spread into all the world. (Gen 11:1-9)

After the flood of Noah’s day, it wasn’t long before rebellion again reared it’s ugly head with Nimrod, Noah’s great grandson. It was Nimrod who rebelled against God’s instructions to spread abroad in the earth, wanting instead to stay put and build his own political and false religious empire. Babylon was the city he built with its famous tower “with its top in the heavens”...legend has it that this was so that if God flooded the world again, they would have a safe place to save themselves. (Much like modern day world leaders have their purpose built bunkers for when it all goes pear shaped....to save themselves, but no one else)

Babylon the great also pictures the captivity of the Israelites when, because of their continuing disobedience, God allowed the Babylonian world power of the day, to conquer his people and destroy their temple and their city, leaving it in ruins and the people carried off to that distant land as captives. Babylon was renown for never allowing their prisoners to go free.....so it looked as if Israel was in a hopeless situation.
Many in Christendom feel that way too, feeling trapped.....not knowing how to get out of what they see is a sham, pretending to be what it is not....having no beneficial purpose in the world.
Any wonder some want to discard religion altogether?

The captivity of the Jews was foretold to last 70 years (by Daniel who was himself a captive but because of favourable circumstances, and God’s blessing and direction, he became the second most important figure in the Babylonian Empire.)

But at the end of the foretold 70 years, God allowed another powerful nation to conquer Babylon, allowing a “remnant” of faithful Israelites to go back and rebuild their city and their temple.....it took a long time because of opposition from the prevailing rulers, but eventually God’s temple was restored to its former glory and true worship was reestablished in Israel.

God’s people were in Babylon by God’s own decision as a punishment for their disobedience...... Christianity has fallen in the same manner, and a greater Babylon was used, this time as a global empire, entrapping many in a variety of religious faiths, none of which were of God’s making. All had the same core of religious teachings......a multiplicity of gods....belief in an immortal soul....and a hell of firey eternal punishment for the wicked, but a heaven of bliss for the good. All false religion has these elements...the Bible has none of them.

“Babylon the great” is a world empire of false religion created by the devil to cater to all religious tastes and preferences.....the most reprehensible part is Christendom, who like the Jews, claimed to worship the same God that Jesus and his apostles preached, but were “far removed” from him in their teachings and conduct. (Matt 15:7-9)

History repeats because human nature does not change.....which is why the devil is so successful...he knows exactly how to take people away from God, as skillfully as he did the first humans. All he has to do is convince people that his lies are the truth and that God’s truth is all lies. He holds freedom and independence from God as the best choice, (do your own thing) but all it results in is slavery to him....religious, commercial, and political. Humans never learn....

Big picture.....
 

Spyder

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2024
364
340
63
Holt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The question then is....”who or what is “Babylon the great”?
We are told in no certain terms to remove ourselves from that immoral entity. She is pictured as a harlot, who is “in bed” with God’s enemies, and has always had the political and commercial world to do her bidding....but in these last days, those who can identify her have to act before God does....(Rev 18:4-5)
She is going down!

She is an integral part of satan’s rulership over this earth.....he has three main elements with which he controls this world.....corrupt political, greedy commercialism and false religion....all three components are under his complete influence, so all of humanity are unwittingly kept under his control by means of these three key elements. It’s why Jesus said we must be “no part of the world”. (John 17:16)

“Babylon the great” is mourned by both the political and commercials elements, even though it is the political elements that attack her. (Rev 18:9-11) Therefore, BtG has to be a grander global version of what original Babylon was. The means by which false religion was spread into all the world. (Gen 11:1-9)

After the flood of Noah’s day, it wasn’t long before rebellion again reared it’s ugly head with Nimrod, Noah’s great grandson. It was Nimrod who rebelled against God’s instructions to spread abroad in the earth, wanting instead to stay put and build his own political and false religious empire. Babylon was the city he built with its famous tower “with its top in the heavens”...legend has it that this was so that if God flooded the world again, they would have a safe place to save themselves. (Much like modern day world leaders have their purpose built bunkers for when it all goes pear shaped....to save themselves, but no one else)

Babylon the great also pictures the captivity of the Israelites when, because of their continuing disobedience, God allowed the Babylonian world power of the day, to conquer his people and destroy their temple and their city, leaving it in ruins and the people carried off to that distant land as captives. Babylon was renown for never allowing their prisoners to go free.....so it looked as if Israel was in a hopeless situation.
Many in Christendom feel that way too, feeling trapped.....not knowing how to get out of what they see is a sham, pretending to be what it is not....having no beneficial purpose in the world.
Any wonder some want to discard religion altogether?

The captivity of the Jews was foretold to last 70 years (by Daniel who was himself a captive but because of favourable circumstances, and God’s blessing and direction, he became the second most important figure in the Babylonian Empire.)

But at the end of the foretold 70 years, God allowed another powerful nation to conquer Babylon, allowing a “remnant” of faithful Israelites to go back and rebuild their city and their temple.....it took a long time because of opposition from the prevailing rulers, but eventually God’s temple was restored to its former glory and true worship was reestablished in Israel.

God’s people were in Babylon by God’s own decision as a punishment for their disobedience...... Christianity has fallen in the same manner, and a greater Babylon was used, this time as a global empire, entrapping many in a variety of religious faiths, none of which were of God’s making. All had the same core of religious teachings......a multiplicity of gods....belief in an immortal soul....and a hell of firey eternal punishment for the wicked, but a heaven of bliss for the good. All false religion has these elements...the Bible has none of them.

“Babylon the great” is a world empire of false religion created by the devil to cater to all religious tastes and preferences.....the most reprehensible part is Christendom, who like the Jews, claimed to worship the same God that Jesus and his apostles preached, but were “far removed” from him in their teachings and conduct. (Matt 15:7-9)

History repeats because human nature does not change.....which is why the devil is so successful...he knows exactly how to take people away from God, as skillfully as he did the first humans. All he has to do is convince people that his lies are the truth and that God’s truth is all lies. He holds freedom and independence from God as the best choice, (do your own thing) but all it results in is slavery to him....religious, commercial, and political. Humans never learn....

Big picture.....
Yes, my sister, I view this fallen condition of a Christianity based on unscriptural doctrines by a group that enforces their statements by shunning those who don't accept them, stigmatizing those who dare to speak up, and leaving those who loved being in a community of believers by themselves. However, Yahweh provides a way to have fellowship, but without the banquets or communion. (He doesn't leave me alone, thank God.)

For those who have been dear to me, my heart hurts. There are doctrines that cause sin and may be a salvific issue in nature. But, they still choose doctrines over scripture. I have to leave it in the hands of the One who can effect change - just as I depend on God for truth.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,247
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Yes, my sister, I view this fallen condition of a Christianity based on unscriptural doctrines by a group that enforces their statements by shunning those who don't accept them, stigmatizing those who dare to speak up, and leaving those who loved being in a community of believers by themselves. However, Yahweh provides a way to have fellowship, but without the banquets or communion. (He doesn't leave me alone, thank God.)
It is good news indeed that God is searching the world for us as much as we think we are searching for him.
No one can come to the Father unless it is through the son....and no one can come to the son without an invitation from his Father (John 6:65)....so that narrows it down to a specific group...not large in numbers (Matt 7:13-14) but big on scriptural truth, no matter how unpopular it is......look at Jesus....the majority of Jews took the side of the Pharisees and clamored for his death, not believing what he taught, but a remnant believed and became his faithful followers. (Matt 2:25)
For those who have been dear to me, my heart hurts.
Mine too....but I have found that Yahweh puts his hand over your heart to ease the pain.
There are doctrines that cause sin and may be a salvific issue in nature. But, they still choose doctrines over scripture. I have to leave it in the hands of the One who can effect change - just as I depend on God for truth.
These are the safest of hands...and he has a basis for judgment that cannot be faulted or interfered with by his adversary.
Those who come to Christ on the basis of who he really is, are going to inherit "everlasting life".

John 17:3....
"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

Just in this one verse alone we can see what is a salvation issue.....we have to "know" the one who is "the only true God" AND the one he "sent". Those who confuse the Father and son and treat them as "one God", have just broken the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3) There is no God but Yahweh....and we know that Jesus is never called Yahweh.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and Spyder

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have found snippets of this book and have observed that they are researching about people leaving organized religious churches. If have no clue about their concern for the growth of "home churches" or even "zoom churches."
I have zero problem with Christians leaving the non-profit businesses in order to spend time with fellow believers discussing scriptures and having fellowship outside of membership-related organizations.
At first, I thought they were discussing the great falling away. Well, perhaps it is, but maybe it is falling away from the church that man built.
Most of my life I attended church meetings regularly. For then it was seemingly a necessary thing for me. In November of 2018, the human powers that be put out our 93-year-old pastor. We went out with him. For a long time then I was visiting the various church services in our town hoping God would show me a new place to call "home". I was still visiting and looking in 2020 when most of them stopped having physical services. I never got into what they called "virtual services".

By the time most of the doors had reopened I had begun my fight with cancer so I did not resume my visits. I had weekly Bible studies with my old pastor in his trailer. This stopped not long before his death in November of 2022. In early 2023 we. moved into our daughter's home where we are now. None of my family regularly attends any services although they sometime watch their "home church" using a computer link. Until I am able to drive again [will that ever happen?], I remain at home and spend most of my time in my little study reading my Bible and other books or checking this forum.