In exile from the church - disconnected from what?

[St. SteVen]

Whether by personal decision, or being forced out, some (or many?) are exiled from the institution of the church.
I did some quick research to see if there are any statistics on Christians leaving the church.
Wanting to know if it really is just SOME, or if it is MANY. (probably many, but...) ???

The search results seemed to indicate that "leaving the church" is viewed as leaving Christianity.
And I suppose leaving "Christianity" (the church) is viewed as "leaving God". (sigh)
Obviously, there are a full spectrum of reasons and outcomes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And the typical knee-jerk reaction of "the church", or "Christianity" is to quote 1 John 2:19 saying:
"... they left us because they were never of us." (ouch) Thus damning the exiles.

Seems that the church is like a hospital that sends their flesh wound patients directly to the morgue. (ouch)
Mostly, I suppose, due to the "our way, or the highway" stance of most churches, and Christianity in general.

And it has to be that way on some level. Nothing like-minded about a doctrinal free-for-all.
It becomes a matter of identity, that can easily devolve into tribalism, and a self-congratulating echo chamber.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, back to the statistics. The Washington Post had an article about "dechurching",
based on a book written by Jim Davis and Michael Graham. Here's an article quote.
"The study included a survey of 1,043 Americans to determine the scope of dechurching — which was defined as
having attended service at least once a month in the past and now attending less than once a year.
That initial survey found that about 15% of Americans are dechurched." Source

This survey, at least, seems to indicate that the number is SOME, rather than MANY.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Statistics aside, What does this mean to both INSIDERS and OUTSIDERS.

For OUTSIDERS
Depends on the reasons for exile and the outcome.
Did they leave, or can't "find" a church that "works" for them?
If they left by their own choice, what was the reason?
Doctrinal issues? Being hurt in personal relationships with members or staff?
What happened? And where did it leave them?

Assuming these exiles still have a relationship with God, how has this affected
their relationship with "church-goers" and the "church"? (the institution) What are
they doing to replace what "church" should have been providing for them?

For INSIDERS
What are your views toward the exiles?
How did you treat them before they left, and after?
Did you cut ties with them? Did you shun them?
Might they have left BECAUSE of how you treated them?
Do you bear some responsibility for that?

Curious to hear some OUTSIDER and INSIDER testimonies on this subject.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Whether by personal decision, or being forced out, some (or many?) are exiled from the institution of the church.
I did some quick research to see if there are any statistics on Christians leaving the church.
Wanting to know if it really is just SOME, or if it is MANY. (probably many, but...) ???

The search results seemed to indicate that "leaving the church" is viewed as leaving Christianity.
And I suppose leaving "Christianity" (the church) is viewed as "leaving God". (sigh)
Obviously, there are a full spectrum of reasons and outcomes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And the typical knee-jerk reaction of "the church", or "Christianity" is to quote 1 John 2:19 saying:
"... they left us because they were never of us." (ouch) Thus damning the exiles.

Seems that the church is like a hospital that sends their flesh wound patients directly to the morgue. (ouch)
Mostly, I suppose, due to the "our way, or the highway" stance of most churches, and Christianity in general.

And it has to be that way on some level. Nothing like-minded about a doctrinal free-for-all.
It becomes a matter of identity, that can easily devolve into tribalism, and a self-congratulating echo chamber.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, back to the statistics. The Washington Post had an article about "dechurching",
based on a book written by Jim Davis and Michael Graham. Here's an article quote.
"The study included a survey of 1,043 Americans to determine the scope of dechurching — which was defined as
having attended service at least once a month in the past and now attending less than once a year.
That initial survey found that about 15% of Americans are dechurched." Source

This survey, at least, seems to indicate that the number is SOME, rather than MANY.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Statistics aside, What does this mean to both INSIDERS and OUTSIDERS.

For OUTSIDERS
Depends on the reasons for exile and the outcome.
Did they leave, or can't "find" a church that "works" for them?
If they left by their own choice, what was the reason?
Doctrinal issues? Being hurt in personal relationships with members or staff?
What happened? And where did it leave them?

Assuming these exiles still have a relationship with God, how has this affected
their relationship with "church-goers" and the "church"? (the institution) What are
they doing to replace what "church" should have been providing for them?

For INSIDERS
What are your views toward the exiles?
How did you treat them before they left, and after?
Did you cut ties with them? Did you shun them?
Might they have left BECAUSE of how you treated them?
Do you bear some responsibility for that?

Curious to hear some OUTSIDER and INSIDER testimonies on this subject.

I wonder how much the lock downs got people to stick with not going.

As for me.... the following is my history and my growing closer with God....
As for the survey questions, I have no opinion and that possibly is because I fault churches and clergy for the
mess we are in with woke for their lack of caring and acceptance so as to not lose the body count or money.

I do not "go to church" regularly since probably the 1980s when my grandmother was in a nursing home
and the family had only Sundays to visit..... due to distance.

Enter into the 1990's and it was at one Christmas Eve service ... the children's one... and a woman wa sitting on the floor with the children talking about how fabulous it was that those camels had the ability to travel at such high speeds long distances to get those "Wise Men" to the manger to see the new born babe.

And I about lost in in the middle of the church. And a few days lates I sent a letter to the minister preaching that night about how he could let her have told the story that way and let those kids believe the Wise Men got to the manger that night... when they didn't.

I got a letter back from him. In it he said Yes, he KNEW, the Wise Men never got there that night
BUT HE FELT IT BEST TO NOT CONFUSE THE PEOPLE

And from that time forward... communions were the only things that became important.

After that... which was well before I ever dreamed I would have a personal computer.... I became one of the televangelist groupies and started to learn how many "opinions were out there". Sheeesh. At the time I had no idea.... Cloistered, as it were, in my denomination... knowing about others but having no comprehension anyone believed differently then we did.

During this time, my uncle got sick... needed care and died. As did my dad who died one month later and in 2004 I got my first view of the internet highway.

And started to study other beliefs....

Anyway, I eventually discovered "Christian Forums" and my eye got opened quite wide.

My first, which closed, a very long time ago, had a man who professed belief as we all do and expected to "go to heaven" on death and his debate was he did not want to...... HE WANTED to cease to exist

From there I started my search for a forum home..... and in doing so and learning from each
I came to one consensus... There is no church that is 100% right and there is no church that is 100% wrong
except for Anton Szandor LaVey's~ Church of Satan. Not the Catholics, and not the Jewish synagogues.

And I was a sponge. Reading and studying the word. And commentaries. and I could not get my fill.

So at times I know I am argumentative and make no apologies.

I am at somewhat odds with my own denomination because of their predestination certainty.... (how wonderful that might be)

And definitely am on the side of free will..... YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE. I love you anyway.

As a brother or sister in Christ is all that matters.

And in the words of the dearly departed Paul Harvey... "Now you know the end of the story"

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response.
I love to read personal testimonies. Everyone has their own story. (obviously)
So in that respect, we are all unique.

I wonder how much the lock downs got people to stick with not going.

That's a good point. I'm sure that had a BIG impact.
I just checked to see when the article and the book were written. Both current.
September 15th for the article and 2023 for the book.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Rella your story has a familiar ring to it.....my disillusionment with my church and the hypocrisies that were glaringly obvious, became a stumbling block to me.

I too was prompted to do something when my father died very suddenly at the age of 52 from a massive heart attack. He had been raised in the Anglican Church from his youth, but lost his brother in the Second World War. His faith was shattered and though he sent us kids to Sunday School, he never set foot inside a church again himself (unless it was for a wedding or funeral).

When it came time to organise his funeral, the church minister refused to do the service because my Dad was not a church goer. He sent his assistant who bumbled through the service (as these people do who have no idea who they are burying). There is something so empty about being talked about, when someone has never bothered to get to know you.

My parents had given money to the church every week in an envelope that we kids took with us to Sunday School. But this minister took our money without once coming to visit my parents to see if he could assist them spiritually or to answer their many questions about why God allows bad things to happen to good people.

The crunch came a few weeks after the funeral when two ladies came to our door asking for the money my mother should have put in the envelope to support the minister, (as in our grief we had not been anywhere much). I was appalled at the audacity! This “man of God” could accept our money but showed absolutely no interest in those who did not come to his church!?
Jesus showed that the “lost sheep” were also precious to God. I was very angry but at the minister, not God.

I left that church in search of one that taught the truth, could answer my many questions, and actually were Christ-like in their care for all in the congregation. All I found was more of the same, I never felt welcome, so I widened my search to include other denominations, and again found that no one had the answers I sought about the death of my father. Platitudes were all they could offer.

I tried Eastern religions, but the idolatry repelled me as I knew God hated it. I tried believing in evolution as a way that God might have created all things, but the more I looked into it, the more I saw the Creator’s hand in everything that demonstrated deliberate design.....not a process that just fell into place over time.

I was the kid who always asked “why”? I still do, and unless I have satisfying answers, I will keep researching until I find them. They had to come from the Bible, not just from someone’s opinion, and backed up by other scripture.

It turns out that I found the answers in a place I would never have thought to look....I went looking for God in places where he was not to be found. He found me by sending someone to my door, whom I almost turned away....but out of curiosity (with a little sarcasm) asked about the condition of the dead......they asked me to go get my Bible, so I got my little KJV and they asked me to look up some verses.....in a few minutes I had answers to questions I had been wondering about all my life. My appetite was whetted and I began a study of the Bible that changed my whole attitude towards God, and filled in the blanks about why we are here and what his original purpose was for our existence. It created in me a passion for Bible study that I have never lost.....and introduced to me a Creator that is close and personal, not distant and aloof....and not a God who tortured souls in hellfire.
I know who Jesus is, and what he did for us who exercise faith in his sacrifice.

I know what I believe and why I believe it, and I can answer all the hard questions because I was shown how to study God’s word rather than church theology. It’s a journey that brings me so much joy among those in a global brotherhood who all share the same truth......and when someone responds to our efforts to preach “the good news of the Kingdom” I can confidently convey the truth about it, rather than praying the Lord’s Prayer without knowing what I was praying for.

That is my story.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

@Rella your story has a familiar ring to it.....my disillusionment with my church and the hypocrisies that were glaringly obvious, became a stumbling block to me.

I too was prompted to do something when my father died very suddenly at the age of 52 from a massive heart attack. He had been raised in the Anglican Church from his youth, but lost his brother in the Second World War. His faith was shattered and though he sent us kids to Sunday School, he never set foot inside a church again himself (unless it was for a wedding or funeral).

When it came time to organise his funeral, the church minister refused to do the service because my Dad was not a church goer. He sent his assistant who bumbled through the service (as these people do who have no idea who they are burying). There is something so empty about being talked about, when someone has never bothered to get to know you.

My parents had given money to the church every week in an envelope that we kids took with us to Sunday School. But this minister took our money without once coming to visit my parents to see if he could assist them spiritually or to answer their many questions about why God allows bad things to happen to good people.

The crunch came a few weeks after the funeral when two ladies came to our door asking for the money my mother should have put in the envelope to support the minister, (as in our grief we had not been anywhere much). I was appalled at the audacity! This “man of God” could accept our money but showed absolutely no interest in those who did not come to his church!?
Jesus showed that the “lost sheep” were also precious to God. I was very angry but at the minister, not God.

I left that church in search of one that taught the truth, could answer my many questions, and actually were Christ-like in their care for all in the congregation. All I found was more of the same, I never felt welcome, so I widened my search to include other denominations, and again found that no one had the answers I sought about the death of my father. Platitudes were all they could offer.

I tried Eastern religions, but the idolatry repelled me as I knew God hated it. I tried believing in evolution as a way that God might have created all things, but the more I looked into it, the more I saw the Creator’s hand in everything that demonstrated deliberate design.....not a process that just fell into place over time.

I was the kid who always asked “why”? I still do, and unless I have satisfying answers, I will keep researching until I find them. They had to come from the Bible, not just from someone’s opinion, and backed up by other scripture.

It turns out that I found the answers in a place I would never have thought to look....I went looking for God in places where he was not to be found. He found me by sending someone to my door, whom I almost turned away....but out of curiosity (with a little sarcasm) asked about the condition of the dead......they asked me to go get my Bible, so I got my little KJV and they asked me to look up some verses.....in a few minutes I had answers to questions I had been wondering about all my life. My appetite was whetted and I began a study of the Bible that changed my whole attitude towards God, and filled in the blanks about why we are here and what his original purpose was for our existence. It created in me a passion for Bible study that I have never lost.....and introduced to me a Creator that is close and personal, not distant and aloof....and not a God who tortured souls in hellfire.
I know who Jesus is, and what he did for us who exercise faith in his sacrifice.

I know what I believe and why I believe it, and I can answer all the hard questions because I was shown how to study God’s word rather than church theology. It’s a journey that beings me so much joy among those in a global brotherhood who all share the same truth......and when someone responds to our efforts to preach “the good news of the Kingdom” I can confidently convey the truth about it, rather than praying the Lord’s Prayer without knowing what I was praying for.

That is my story.

Thank you for sharing your story @Aunty Jane.

Blessings, always.

 

[Arthur81]

Whether by personal decision, or being forced out, some (or many?) are exiled from the institution of the church.
I did some quick research to see if there are any statistics on Christians leaving the church.
Wanting to know if it really is just SOME, or if it is MANY. (probably many, but...) ???

The search results seemed to indicate that "leaving the church" is viewed as leaving Christianity.
And I suppose leaving "Christianity" (the church) is viewed as "leaving God". (sigh)
Obviously, there are a full spectrum of reasons and outcomes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And the typical knee-jerk reaction of "the church", or "Christianity" is to quote 1 John 2:19 saying:
"... they left us because they were never of us." (ouch) Thus damning the exiles.

Seems that the church is like a hospital that sends their flesh wound patients directly to the morgue. (ouch)
Mostly, I suppose, due to the "our way, or the highway" stance of most churches, and Christianity in general.

And it has to be that way on some level. Nothing like-minded about a doctrinal free-for-all.
It becomes a matter of identity, that can easily devolve into tribalism, and a self-congratulating echo chamber.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, back to the statistics. The Washington Post had an article about "dechurching",
based on a book written by Jim Davis and Michael Graham. Here's an article quote.
"The study included a survey of 1,043 Americans to determine the scope of dechurching — which was defined as
having attended service at least once a month in the past and now attending less than once a year.
That initial survey found that about 15% of Americans are dechurched." Source

This survey, at least, seems to indicate that the number is SOME, rather than MANY.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Statistics aside, What does this mean to both INSIDERS and OUTSIDERS.

For OUTSIDERS
Depends on the reasons for exile and the outcome.
Did they leave, or can't "find" a church that "works" for them?
If they left by their own choice, what was the reason?
Doctrinal issues? Being hurt in personal relationships with members or staff?
What happened? And where did it leave them?

Assuming these exiles still have a relationship with God, how has this affected
their relationship with "church-goers" and the "church"? (the institution) What are
they doing to replace what "church" should have been providing for them?

For INSIDERS
What are your views toward the exiles?
How did you treat them before they left, and after?
Did you cut ties with them? Did you shun them?
Might they have left BECAUSE of how you treated them?
Do you bear some responsibility for that?

Curious to hear some OUTSIDER and INSIDER testimonies on this subject.

St. SteVen, my own experience and observation here in Florida may not exactly address your question, but this is what I see.

Many who came south to Florida upon retirement did not continue church attendance. It seems that with some, the comfort of the home church where they attended for years, was far different from what the encountered once coming to Florida, so they just did not continue in a church affiliation and I'm familiar with a couple families from up north on this situation.

For me, it was somewhat like that, but also I found churches have imported the world into the church here in an attempt to draw in young people, that it just does not match what I see as the NT church. Maybe it was happening around my home church up north and I just did not realize it by attending only my church. The apostate Mainline churches here are not an option, and the music and atmosphere I encountered in so-called NT Bible-believing churches here is foreign to me.

I have the additional situation that I hold to a much older theology found among the Reformed, Presbyterians and Particular Baptists of centuries past, that I find nothing close here. If I attempted to attend one of the churches and tried to participate, I fear I'd be a harm to what the Lord may be doing in one of those churches, so I stay out and no longer attend corporate worship.

I believe I'm better in fellowship with family and receiving good spiritual teaching from men of God out of the past which I can access by their written works.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response.
You have identified another interesting facet of this issue, retirees relocating and not finding a comfortable new church home.

For me, it was somewhat like that, but also I found churches have imported the world into the church here in an attempt to draw in young people, that it just does not match what I see as the NT church.

This is a curious comment. Not that I haven't heard it before, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
That American churches have this idea that what they are doing church like the early church did. ???
The early church didn't even have chairs/pews to sit in. Everyone stood, except the leaders.
And they certainly weren't singing hymns written by Martin Luther, accompanied by a pipe organ. - LOL

 

[Arthur81]

Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response.
You have identified another interesting facet of this issue, retirees relocating and not finding a comfortable new church home.

This is a curious comment. Not that I haven't heard it before, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
That American churches have this idea that what they are doing church like the early church did. ???
The early church didn't even have chairs/pews to sit in. Everyone stood, except the leaders.
And they certainly weren't singing hymns written by Martin Luther, accompanied by a pipe organ. - LOL

Let me answer with the statement in Westminster Confession, which is adopted in the 1689 2nd London Confession of the Baptists.

“The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word; and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and the government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.”

That is often referred to the Regulative Principle of Worship, where the reasoning for it can be read online in the following:

The Regulative Principle of Worship by Derek Thomas

Put simply, the regulative principle of worship states that the corporate worship of God is to be founded upon specific directions of Scripture. On the surface,

www.ligonier.org

For me it is quite simple -
“Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” (Matt 28:19-20 ERV)

Jesus did not command that we follow Moses, or adhere to the Old Covenant; we are to go by his commands given through the Apostles found in the epistles in particular. I note the word “observe” and take this to mean observe in the corporate worship of God. Whether you have AC in a meeting place, or if you have padded pews or chairs, is what is common to human actions and societies; so that is not meant to be banned.

The Confession of Faith that best represents my understanding of scripture is the 1st London Confession of Faith of 1646 The Conclusion at the end contains this -

“...if any man shall impose upon us anything that we see not to be commanded by our Lord Jesus Christ, we should in His strength rather embrace all reproaches and tortures of men, to be stripped of all outward comforts, and if it were possible, to die a thousand deaths, rather than to do anything against the least tittle of the truth of God or against the light of our own consciences.”

The Baptists, Presbyterians and Methodists did not use any musical instruments in the NT worship for it is not so commanded, nor is the establishment of Sunday Schools. If you research, the original purpose of the Sunday School was to teach the children of the congregation Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. For myself personally, if there are to be music in the worship, it IT SHOULD NOT BE THE MUSIC ADOPTED FROM THE WORLD. It used to be if you heard music on the radio you recognized the Christian music easily; but today it sounds just like the world or even worse! Think how many arguments over music could be avoided if we followed the NT commands, where music is not commanded.

“...speaking one to another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;” (Eph 5:19 ERV)

 

[St. SteVen]

New thread. (going for a world record)

The "Yeah, but..." school of doctrine - Bible versus Bible

We have all been there. You present your doctrinal position and give biblical support for it. The response is, "Yeah, but..." and then your "opponent" gives their differing doctrinal position with biblical support. So basically, Bible versus Bible. (who will win?) Ironically, the WORDS "Yeah...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[St. SteVen]

@Arthur81
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response.

Question: The church that you know and love is dying.
Do you wish to revive it, or sign a Do Not Resuscitate order?

It will probably flat-line in the next decade or so, when everyone your age has moved on.

Where is the church that Jesus promised to build?

 

[Arthur81]

@Arthur81
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed response.

Question: The church that you know and love is dying.
Do you wish to revive it, or sign a Do Not Resuscitate order?

It will probably flat-line in the next decade or so, when everyone your age has moved on.

Where is the church that Jesus promised to build?

St. SteVen, that is really a difficult question for me to give a halfway confident answer. I am convinced that the gospel was to go throughout the world, and the true 'born from above' conversions produced men of God who then had great influence on their culture, society and nation, etc. So, I am inclined toward a gospel based, post-millennial view.

I recently researched life as it existed 2000 years ago; regarding travel, health and medicines, hygiene, housing etc. As I read about those areas of life and compared it today; I'm sure the saints of the 1st century would believe much of the modern life is truly the wonderful age of the Messiah, a golden age.

But as I look around, I wonder about two possibilities: 1, we are in a period as existed prior to the Protestant Reformation and we may see a great revival appear; or 2, we are in the little season where Satan is released after the 1000 years. Of course #2 is because I am post-mil.

I know Jesus said upon the faith expressed by Peter, he would build his church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it; and Jude instructs the church to contend for the faith once delivered to the church. I do confess I see a dark period in history now. But, then again, what was it like in the year 1500 before Luther triggered the Protestant Reformation?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen, that is really a difficult question for me to give a halfway confident answer.

Thanks for giving it a shot. I'm always interested to read your POV on things.
I knew it would be a challenging question.

I am convinced that the gospel was to go throughout the world, and the true 'born from above' conversions produced men of God who then had great influence on their culture, society and nation, etc.

I agree. Do you wonder what that will look like? Another question...

Question: Would you support a valid spiritual revival that fit today's church culture,
rather than the church culture you grew up with?

 

[Arthur81]

The church I grew up in had the “spring revival” and the “fall revival” and sometimes just a special speaker for a few days of special occasion. It was largely following the “new measures” of Charles G. Finney, who I consider a heretic. So I cannot compare to the church I grew up in.

I changed through my life due to my studies and researching. I do not believe in planned and special revivals. That display at Asbury I totally reject as nothing but emotionalism, which has happened in years past at Asbury as well. I’m now beginning to wonder about the Great Awakening; and understand that some even questioned some of the emotionalism and sensationalism of that, of which I believe Jonathan Edwards was one not happy with the emotionalism.

My view is, Jesus gave the “Great Commission” to the 11 Apostles, Mt 28:16, and the number returned to the Twelve by the Apostle Paul. I believe that Great Commission as given to the 12 was completed in Paul’s day:

“First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world.” (Rom 1:8 ERV)

“...if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister.” (Col 1:23 ERV)

When I think of “evangelists” I am inclined to the view of Matthew Poole about Eph. 4:11 -

“Evangelists; these were likewise extraordinary officers, for the most part chosen by the apostles, as their companions and assistants in preaching the word, and planting churches in the several places where they travelled. Such were Timothy, Titus, Apollos, Silas, &c” *So, office of evangelist was for the Apostolic Age, not now existing.

I see only 3 verses referring to “evangelist” -

“And on the morrow we departed, and came unto Caesarea: and entering into the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, we abode with him.” (Acts 21:8 ERV)

“And he gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;” (Eph 4:11 ERV)

That what I take as key to the question of evangelists -

“But be thou sober in all things, suffer hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry.”(2Tim 4:5 ERV)

In the context of the pastoral epistles, Timothy is to “do the work of an evangelist”, not BE an evangelist as to his office. I believe the preaching of the gospel and baptism is to be continued in the church by the Elders. We the individuals in the body of Christ are to be shining examples of the fruit of the gospel (fruit of the Spirit?), which makes those who are of the elect take notice, and come hear the gospel, or ask to know more of the individual Christian who is living out the gospel.

I see true revival as the Protestant Reformation, and then possibly the Great Awakening. I know this will be seen as heresy by most in this day and in this Forum.

 

[Spyder]

I have found snippets of this book and have observed that they are researching about people leaving organized religious churches. If have no clue about their concern for the growth of "home churches" or even "zoom churches."
I have zero problem with Christians leaving the non-profit businesses in order to spend time with fellow believers discussing scriptures and having fellowship outside of membership-related organizations.
At first, I thought they were discussing the great falling away. Well, perhaps it is, but maybe it is falling away from the church that man built.

 

[St. SteVen]

I have found snippets of this book and have observed that they are researching about people leaving organized religious churches. If have no clue about their concern for the growth of "home churches" or even "zoom churches."
I have zero problem with Christians leaving the non-profit businesses in order to spend time with fellow believers discussing scriptures and having fellowship outside of membership-related organizations.
At first, I thought they were discussing the great falling away. Well, perhaps it is, but maybe it is falling away from the church that man built.

The Pew Research Foundation currently shows a whopping 22.8% of Americans as Unaffiliated (Religious "nones")

Source

/

 

[Spyder]

The Pew Research Foundation currently shows a whopping 22.8% of Americans as Unaffiliated (Religious "nones")

Source

/

But, do they even search for the home-church groups?

 

[St. SteVen]

But, do they even search for the home-church groups?

They survey people in general. Not sure who may be overlooked.

/

 

[Spyder]

They survey people in general. Not sure who may be overlooked.

/

It has been awhile and I no longer remember when I read it, but I saw once an article that spoke of the growth of home churches.

 

[St. SteVen]

It has been awhile and I no longer remember when I read it, but I saw once an article that spoke of the growth of home churches.

Like the early church.

There are definitely advantages in numbers, obviously.
And potential disadvantages.

I used to attend a church that had a satellite location/campus that met in an elementary school building.
The whole "church" was kept in a trailer. - LOL
I mean all the needed "equipment".

They would arrive early on a Sunday morning and set up the whole church.
Have their service and then pack it all up in the trailer for next week.

My wife and I visited a couple of times to show support.
At least one of those times we showed up early and helped with the set-up/tear-down.

I remember having a moment while carrying something into the building.
It was like the excitement of the early church days.
Almost as if that great cloud of witnesses were there along side us, cheering us on.

That church eventually reached a self-supporting size and got their own building.
So, a new church was planted.

Many decades earlier I remember a door-to-door evangelism outreach that
became a church that met in the party room of the apartment complex.

That church grew to have its own building as well.
Both of these churches are still in existence to my knowledge.

/

 

[Spyder]

Like the early church.

There are definitely advantages in numbers, obviously.
And potential disadvantages.

I used to attend a church that had a satellite location/campus that met in an elementary school building.
The whole "church" was kept in a trailer. - LOL
I mean all the needed "equipment".

They would arrive early on a Sunday morning and set up the whole church.
Have their service and then pack it all up in the trailer for next week.

My wife and I visited a couple of times to show support.
At least one of those times we showed up early and helped with the set-up/tear-down.

I remember having a moment while carrying something into the building.
It was like the excitement of the early church days.
Almost as if that great cloud of witnesses were there along side us, cheering us on.

That church eventually reached a self-supporting size and got their own building.
So, a new church was planted.

Many decades earlier I remember a door-to-door evangelism outreach that
became a church that met in the party room of the apartment complex.

That church grew to have its own building as well.
Both of these churches are still in existence to my knowledge.

/

They, too, can grow like a mustard seed. I can only hope that they don't become one of the modern churches.