And that's your opinion.
Universalism is Satanic!
Mt 7 Narrow is the way that leads to Life and FEW there be who find it.
Inconsistency of Christians never being sinless
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Mt 7 Narrow is the way that leads to Life and FEW there be who find it.
Read your Bible again ......your first sin was birth ......You and I have sinned all our life .......the only way to correct that is by constant prayer for forgiveness.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
It's so much better to be proud of thinking you've ceased from sinning. "God, I thank thee that I am not like other men..."
Would it be correct to say that the Bible exhorts us in the strongest possible language to not sin, and yet also tells us to be realistic in assessing who we are, what we do, what we fail to do, and our inward attitudes towards ourselves, God, and our fellow human beings?
The bible is very clear, All have sinned.
Why do you think there are so many mentions of sin and sinning in the epistles? Is it not because All Christians, including you comit sins.
There is no partial conversation, one is either a Christian or one is not a Christian.
I've refuted your assertions several times . . . so, this is a false statement. What do you call it when someone says things that are false? Do you call it lying? The Bible calls lying . . . sin.
Much love!
And so, you agree the words of the Bible, that condemn anyone teaching never ceasing from sinning.
And then you ask if I am doing the word? Yes, at this time. If not, then that doesn't excuse anyone from not doing the words of the Bible.
Do you really think you would be guiltless by never ceasing from sinning, just because others like you aren't?
So, the devil has a good side. The lengths some Christians will go to justify themselves, while being children of the devil.
Not and be born of God.
Whosoever is born of God is not committing sin; for his seed is remaining in him: and he cannot be sinning, while he is born of God.
No man can be sinning with the devil and also be sons of God.
In certain Christian gospels they teach they can, but not the Bible.
Then you are not sinning, and you teach we cannot be sinning and be born of God?
You do not teach that you are only sinning less than before, but are never sinless?
If they say so, then unless I have proof of their works otherwise, why not believe it? Does you unbelief in ceasing to sin, mean all Christians must be also sinning like you, whether more or less?
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
You preach a gospel of incomplete repentance and conversion, so that you you only sin less. That is not the Bible, and all other Christians don't have to obey your gospel.
I for on have sinned, and was even double minded for a season, but not now. That's because like Paul, I didn't justify it nor believe I had to stay double of heart with Jesus. Some Christians are happy to continuing sinning for old time's sake from time to time, and even preach Romans 7 double mindedness as justified for life.
So once again, you need to clarify yourself. You have repented of all dead works, and not do God's righteousness at all times? You are today and now not sinning with the devil, and you know you don't have to sin again with him tomorrow nor the day after?
Then stop preaching it by saying children of the devil are resurrected unto life, so long as they do some good in life.
That is universalism based upon progressive human religion. All religions of man teach seeking to do more good, while doing less sinning, but never ceasing to sin at any time in this life.
Except the pure religion of Jesus Christ.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
That's your book, not the Bible.
Jesus does not make any body nor soul of man sinful, so that any babe is born into the world a child of the devil.
Jesus is the only Maker of anything, and without Him the devil is not making sinful children of his own from the womb.
You have and do by your own confession, and you are teaching repented believer in God can ever cease from sinning with the devil.
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
You teach being born a sinner made by Jesus Christ, in order to justify not ceasing from sinning to walk as He walked.
Your gospel is not that of the Bible. You're certainly welcome to it, and your lifetime of continued sinning can also produce a decent neighborly life as well, but it ends in the grave. No man teaching sinning unto death, will ever raise himself from the dead unto life by his own self-justifying doctrine.
You teaching sinning cannot be corrected, and cease from sinning.
What you are saying is that by repentance unto confession again and again, results in being forgiven again and again by Jesus unto 70 x 7 times. Which is true, since if we sin we still have the Advocate of the world to come to.
However, it's a Russian roulette with your soul not to die while sinning, but when forgiven. And God is not mocked. Since you teach the Christian doctrine of when you sin again, then you're not believing the Bible doctrine of if we sin.
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
When the words of the Bible are not believed, then them writing those words are also condemned by the unbelievers.
No one is condemning any Christian that cease not from sinning, but only them that teach it for life in opposition to the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible.
If you were confessing how you just can't seem to cease from sinning, then there would be help ministered to you to do so.
But because you teach it for life to justify yourselves, as well as condemning the guiltless that are not like you, then I defend the gospel of Jesus Christ and His righteous brethren.
No. That's your own Christian gospel that exhorts only in strong language. It's not the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible, that commands all believers to go and sin no more and cease from sinning by the faith of Jesus.
You preach a gospel of conscientious Christianity to try and do more good than evil, but never not doing evil at some time or another. It certainly can make for a great Christianity in this life, but only the gospel of the Bible goes beyond the grave.
Only those doing the will of God will be resurrected unto life and abide forever. That does not include sinning with the devil at times for old time's sake.
So, you do sin all the time.
That is why you quote Bible verse having to do with all men, before being converted by Jesus Christ with newness of life, and all things are now of God.
The Christian gospel of all have sinned, and continue sinning is not that of the Bible.
Because some Christians keep doing it. And among them some Christians teach it for life, and condemning anyone not doing it like them.
It's one thing to continue sinning as Christian. It's worse to justify it by a Christian doctrine of one's own. But it's worst to then condemn the righteous, for teaching the Bible gospel of going and sinning no more.
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.
Not. Your judgement of all Christians by your own personal sinful life, is not the judgement of the Father.
Not true. There is only one perfect and whole hearted conversion of Jesus Christ in the Bible. But there is also another partial Christian conversion of having sinned, and continuing to sin at times, that you preach.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
What you are talking about her is the literary religious style of the time. Where as one person can speak to both extremes of any topic. Is it confusing? Yes. But you see it here on the forum where people are debating and presenting scriptures that seem to support opposite points of view from the same Apostle….or even Christ…. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.Let's look at the logical and doctrinal inconsistencies of teach that Christians can never being sinless on earth.
The Bible says being sinless is being innocent and guiltless of sinning and transgressing the law of God.
Sinless is not sinning. Sinful is sinning.
And so, logically speaking, if we are not ever sinless and not sinning, then we are always sinful by sinning.
And so once again logically speaking, as pertaining to the Christian doctrine of sinning from time to time. If we are only sinful some of the time, then we must also be sinless some of the time.
Therefore, the Christian doctrine against Christians ever being sinless and not sinning, can only be taught by those Christians sinning all the time, and not just some of the time.
And so with more logic applied, if we preach only sinning from time to time, we cannot also preach never being sinless at any time.
The real question then is what about the rest of time we are not sinning? Why does that sinless time have to end at all? Why must we change and be sinful at any time? The inconsistency is clear and the question is telling. Especially since Bible doctrine commands man since the garden not to sinfully disobey God,
This shows that those Christians preaching only sinning from time to time, are not really preaching against ever being sinless at any time. What they are preaching is simple double heartedness in the faith of Christ. They preach a Christian lifetime of sometimes sinning and sometimes not sinning.
They are preaching the partial sinless gospel of the double minded in Christ. They are preaching Romans 7 for life.
Which of course is not unheard of since Paul himself spoke of his own affliction at finding himself double hearted in Christ Jesus. And I for one know exactly what that is like, having been there and done that myself.
And so preaching double heartedness and not being sinless all the time, would be one thing I would not do. However, not all Christians leave well enough alone, but must go out there way not only to preach their imperfect partially sinless gospel, but they must also attack the full-time sinless Gospel, which is that of Jesus Christ in the Bible.
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Their part-time righteous gospel is based upon unbelief in the all the words of the Bible, and some of them resent Christians that believe and do all the word of God, even as we are commanded to do in the Bible with a whole heart. Some even attack preachers of righteousness, and I have even seen some declare such preachers are not saved and condemned to hell.
And why? Because they preach being sinless and doing righteousness at all times like the Bible, while they themselves only preach being sinless part of time? Doesn't seem very fair to me.
What is perfect? What is this talking about? If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
God so loved the world…..not God so loved the sinless….not God so loved the perfect…not God so loved the Jews.
Why was it that the Son of God had to walk among men? Why did He have to be the sacrifice to end all sacrifices? What did His sacrifice do?
1. There was no sacrifice in the Old Testament that would make it so that humans would be eligible for Heaven. Christ’s sacrifice gave the opportunity to forgive sins at a whole new level and opened the gates of Heaven for the first time.
2. The Old Testament involved a system of sin and tally…God knew their sins and those sins made it so that they could not be in His presence. There was always something that had to be between Him and man. When Christ died on the cross the veil was ripped in two, the separation between God and Man was gone. Faith and Grace was the power of the New Testament. So now man could be in the presence of God and so then the gates of Heaven were opened to man. What made this possible….Grace.
3. Grace…How does that work? When Christ died on the cross we were removed from the Old Covenant system of sin and tally and from there our sins were between us and Christ. Grace is like a cloak of sinlessness. God the Father does not see or remember our sins. This is the key element of making it possible for us to go to Heaven and be with God. If He could see our sins we could not be with Him. God has zero tolerance for sin. LOL Forgiven or not, if He could see our sins, we could not stop sinning long enough to have a relationship with God during our life.
4. The power of Faith and forgiveness and the new man. If we have faith and are baptized the person that comes up out of that water is a new spiritual person. The old person is gone from the memory of Christ. New person and new slate, that means that nothing that old person did matters or is remembered by Christ, a new beginning. That does not mean that the new person is perfect and will never sin. It means from there on our sins are between us and Christ. We can get forgiveness for our sins, but Grace and forgiveness is not a license to sin. Don’t come to Christ for the same sins over and over. If we could get forgiveness for the same sins over and over, then there would have been no reason for the Apostles to warn us about sinning and the sins that would prevent us from going to Heaven.
Should we aim to be perfect? Yes. Will we ever get it done? No. A lot of it has to do with honest intent. Kind of like when Mel Gibson was teaching his kids how to shoot in The Patriot….He told them aim small and miss small…good advice. The plan of God to Save us from Hell and provide a Way to Heaven, was never contingent on us being perfect and sinless. If it was, it would have never worked and there would have been no reason for Christ to come or die on the cross. That is why I always say, be good and do good the best you can.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth
I'm a sinner and so are you.
1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
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You hurl insults like Satan and say you never sin?
The sad part is that if you don't confess your sins O sinless one, you may not be forgiven.
1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
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A nice dissertation I'm sure. But since no specific point of the my post is even mentioned and challenged. It stands uncorrected.
It is an independent argument coupled with Bible verses, that have nothing to do with literary religious style of the time.
What it plainly shows is the inconsistency of some Christians preaching against never sinning in this life, while also trying to preach only sinning some of the time.
The only consistent way of preaching against never sinning at all, is only by also preaching for sinning all the time.
I know it is, but it's what you teach by saying children of the devil are saved by being nice from time to time. That's universalism.
The devil has no good side with God, nor His children sinning with him against God.
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