Inconsistency of Christians never being sinless

[Ghada]

But to be clear, being "double hearted" is one kind of problem, and being (as with Paul) double in body and heart, the one waring with the other, is another problem entirely.

Bible double heartedness is not doing what we are supposed to be doing. And since what we do begins with the heart, then the heart is divided from one time to the next.

Any person can be double hearted in life. If it has to do with career and especially soldiering, then there can be disastrous results.

Double heartedness and double mindedness is simply doing contrary to what we know we ought to do. In the faith of God, it results in the sin of not doing what we know to do, or doing what we know not to do.

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Until we actually do something or fail to do it, then there's only indecisiveness. Being undecided is not a sin in itself. Double heartedness is the sin of doing or not doing.

 

[Ghada]

In Paul's example, in his heart he was not at war, but only that his new heart remained in his old body of sin and death.

I don't do sin nature ideology. I don't try to blame my body for the things I do, or don't do. I leave that to other Christians trying to justify their deeds, as though the body is only accountable for, and not the soul.

In which case, there is accounted no sin--

As I said above. I don't bother with the sin nature gambit, in order to excuse what we do with our bodies on earth.

The Father will judge every man's works. That's the soul of every man that is still judged for the deeds we do in our flesh.

because one who is born anew of the spirit of God in his heart is under no condemnation-

And again. No one walking after the flesh is uncondemned for doing unrighteous works of the flesh. Christians being doctrinally convinced to think we're not responsible and accountable and judged for what we do in life, are well, frankly and rightly dismissed out of hand by normal mature adults in the world.

It's akin to the nonsense the New Agers preaching about being inwardly divine while still outwardly corrupt. It's saying we have the inward divine nature now, while still acting undivinely with the world.

Stripping aside all the doctrine words, no one takes any person seriously, that claims an inward religion, that has nothing to do with how we actually live.

-and yet the old body of sin still is and will still die as a result.

Our natural bodies are the same as when Christ shapes them in the womb. Mortal. There's nothing sinful about being mortal. It's how all bodies of flesh on earth are made by Christ.

The old man and body of sin, is the old life of sin that we crucify on our cross, when we repent of sinning and follow and walk with Jesus as He walked. Once our old life is repented of and we believe Jesus from the heart to do His righteousness, then we are instantly made newly pure born of God, with the whole new life of hearts without lust, and blameless living without sinning.

 

[Ghada]

This is what Paul referred to regarding those who are "alive and remain"--meaning, alive in God and in spirit, but remaining in the world and in the flesh until the passing of the flesh.

True. Saints still on earth living holy in all manner of conversation. Inward and outward purity of life as Jesus.

This same "alive and remain" (righteous in a sinful world), was first modeled by Jesus, who having died for the sins of the world, remained for forty days sinless in the flesh being accredited with righteousness from above.

Huh? Jesus was 'accredited' with righteousness? The example of Jesus is doing righteousness at all times. Enduring any and all temptations without sinning.

And all His temptation enduring and devil resisting ended with His death on the cross. In His resurrected body three days later, He was once again as God on the throne, with no more temptation to sin at all. (James 1)

But now He is called the man Christ Jesus sitting on the right hand of the Father. For 40 days He walked among His disciples in His resurrected flesh and bones. He'll do the same on earth during His thousand year inherited rule of all nations.

Which is to say that His resurrection and His ascension represented two completely separate events--t

True. His body was resurrected from the grave, which no man saw coming out of the tomb, and then He ascended on high in a cloud in the sight of the disciples. He'll descend the same with clouds at His second coming to earth.

he first being salvation, and the latter being eternal life.

Whoa. Are you saying Jesus got saved? His resurrection was Him being saved? Or maybe you mean His body was saved from corruption, as Peter speaks of in Acts 2?

The one is God with us, and the other us with God, or as Paul came to say regarding his own time of being alive and remaining, "for me, to live is Christ."

This sounds good. The man Jesus was God in the flesh dwelling with man. Now in Him we are with God even as He was in the flesh.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

 

[ScottA]

So you say. When someone just disagrees, without correcting any point, then it's just disagreeing as a personal choice.

That certainly is true of all who agree or disagree. But that is not what I was doing. I was not speaking of my own beliefs as agreeing or disagreeing. It was not I who spoke.

 

[ScottA]

Bible double heartedness is not doing what we are supposed to be doing. And since what we do begins with the heart, then the heart is divided from one time to the next.

Any person can be double hearted in life. If it has to do with career and especially soldiering, then there can be disastrous results.

Double heartedness and double mindedness is simply doing contrary to what we know we ought to do. In the faith of God, it results in the sin of not doing what we know to do, or doing what we know not to do.

For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Until we actually do something or fail to do it, then there's only indecisiveness. Being undecided is not a sin in itself. Double heartedness is the sin of doing or not doing.

We who "have the mind of Christ" however are not double minded except when it comes to our own dealings. Indeed, one can speak from his own mind and also from the mind of Christ. But it is God who decides what is true and told and when, and who and when one is sent or cut off. And those who are His hear His words, while it is unbelief that causes some not to hear.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I don't believe we can rightly conflate rationality with faith.

That being said, I believe and live as Jesus promised. I am reborn in Christ as a new creation from the first birth that made me to be dead in sin, and separated from understanding and receiving the words of the Father.

Therefore, if I call myself a Christian sinner I believe I am not in right-eous covenant as one reborn from that sin state.

Therein, I am not a Christian sinner. I do make errors. However, those are under the blood.

 

[ScottA]

I don't do sin nature ideology. I don't try to blame my body for the things I do, or don't do. I leave that to other Christians trying to justify their deeds, as though the body is only accountable for, and not the soul.

Then leave it to Paul who did not refuse to tell the truth of this matter. Which made him qualified to speak contrary to what you, as you have said, "don't do."

 

[ScottA]

And again. No one walking after the flesh is uncondemned for doing unrighteous works of the flesh. Christians being doctrinally convinced to think we're not responsible and accountable and judged for what we do in life, are well, frankly and rightly dismissed out of hand by normal mature adults in the world.

It's akin to the nonsense the New Agers preaching about being inwardly divine while still outwardly corrupt. It's saying we have the inward divine nature now, while still acting undivinely with the world.

Stripping aside all the doctrine words, no one takes any person seriously, that claims an inward religion, that has nothing to do with how we actually live.

No one who speaks the truth about the struggles of the newborn spirit with the old body of flesh would rightly say, "I do not sin, therefore my old body will not suffer the condemnation of death." Meaning, you misunderstand.

There is no claim of the flesh being "uncondemned", but rather that "those who are alive and remain" in the old body of flesh in service of God until it passes, do continue to struggle in that war between the flesh and the spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Our natural bodies are the same as when Christ shapes them in the womb. Mortal. There's nothing sinful about being mortal. It's how all bodies of flesh on earth are made by Christ.

The old man and body of sin, is the old life of sin that we crucify on our cross, when we repent of sinning and follow and walk with Jesus as He walked. Once our old life is repented of and we believe Jesus from the heart to do His righteousness, then we are instantly made newly pure born of God, with the whole new life of hearts without lust, and blameless living without sinning.

Another misunderstanding.

On the contrary, the mortal bodies formed in the womb are of the same elements of this old earth and world that are to be destroyed by God with "fervent heat and with fire."

And it is for this very reason that we must be born again of the spirit of God. Such is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[ScottA]

True. Saints still on earth living holy in all manner of conversation. Inward and outward purity of life as Jesus.

Huh? Jesus was 'accredited' with righteousness? The example of Jesus is doing righteousness at all times. Enduring any and all temptations without sinning.

And all His temptation enduring and devil resisting ended with His death on the cross. In His resurrected body three days later, He was once again as God on the throne, with no more temptation to sin at all. (James 1)

But now He is called the man Christ Jesus sitting on the right hand of the Father. For 40 days He walked among His disciples in His resurrected flesh and bones. He'll do the same on earth during His thousand year inherited rule of all nations.

If you can receive it-- your understanding and explanation has religious overtones, and the teachings of men, foretold as the result of false teachers entering into the church and spreading destructive doctrines and the believing of a lie causing strong delusion. The end of which was also foretold to occur prior to the sounding of the seventh angel. This is that time.

To the contrary of what you have stated and believed, there is no inward and outward purity for those who are alive and remain--no actual communion between light and darkness, only a continual waring until the end.

As for Christ and His 40 days between resurrection and ascension, it was only for a sign, otherwise completely finished simultaneously "before the foundation of the world." That sign was for us who were called to follow, for which He broke down the one actual event into two so we would have a picture of what our own walk from salvation to passing on to the Father would be. What I was saying before, is that during that 40 days Jesus did not sin, but did continue to carry his own condemned body which did no sin but even so took on sin (ours) and He carried it (and the marks as proof) until His ascension to the Father (or the actual passing of His flesh). Which passing is biblical as He gave His body to His church, saying "take, eat, this is My body", but is the error of the church to believe that He rose into heaven with His flesh, in spite of be told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." So no, what has been taught and believed is full of error by false teachers, against what is otherwise written. The stumbling block of which is that most have believed that Jesus' return in "like manner" is the likeness of the flesh rather than the likeness of God, which men did observe, but only in part, for the spirit is unseen...and yet they believed what was seen rather than what was unseen but written.

As for the thousand years...that is another misunderstanding, another sign or word picture...which the common belief and understanding cannot reconcile with "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." But I suppose that is enough for now.

 

[ScottA]

Whoa. Are you saying Jesus got saved? His resurrection was Him being saved?

For us.

 

[Ghada]

Who said He was?

You are.

You are twisting and misrepresenting what I said - again!

I'm showing you what you teach. You refuse to connect the dots.

We inherited a sinful nature from Adam -

Adam is not a maker of any flesh on earth. Only Christ. The Second Adam is not a Maker of sin nature in any flesh on earth.

Connect the dots.

or haven't heard that doctrine before?

Of course I have. It's your go-to doctrine to excuse your continued sinning, with the further perversion of blaming it on your body.

You are too.

I am not you. As far as the east is from the west, I am not you.

ou twist and distort the integrity of my words, in essence bearing false witness against your neighbor, judging me.

So, agreeing with you offends you.

speak of a common fundamental doctrine: we are sinners (but by the grace of God, have been forgoven).

Yes you are, and by 'we' there must by many like you. Maybe legions of them.

Reminds me of the scripture that speaks of a self righteous man who prays to God and thanks God that he is not like the other wretched sinners and another man, the humble sinner prays for forgiveness.

If you're also a wretched sinner, then so be it. Wretched sinner.

Forgiven sinners.

Your Christ forgives sinning before and during the act of enmity with the true God. Not mine.

Spiritually cleansed but still have this unredeemed body, flesh where sin dwells.

Right. Inside good, outside bad. Your Christ makes sinners with the flesh. Not the true Christ of God, who makes all things good.

Connect the dots.

I said we are instantly sanctified (spiritually), but then we begin to grow and eventually bear fruit. So our minds, lives, behavior transforms.

Right. More good on the inside, evil on the outside. Got it.

As we feed on the nourishment of the Word, we grow to be more loving.

Wretch. So, you're loving me by telling me I must repent of doing righteousness, and go back to being like you.

Forget it. Hearing you makes me avoid being you more than the east is from the west.

We examine ourselves and grow more mature, in control of our actions.

No one is saying you are not becoming a better person by your Christianity. It's just that becoming a better more loving sinner is not the Christian pure religion of the Bible.

Sin means it is your fault whether you are saved or not.

Not if you keep blaming a sin-born body made by your Christ. Especially not by claiming your converted soul is clean within, while sinning against God without.

Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

We are all "like dirty rags", says the Lord.

And there you go. And you get so upset when I misquote your teaching, and say your life is still filthy rags to God.

Your works were filthy rags before your Christian religion conversion, and they still are.

I am not you, nor am I like you.

Study this verse. There is no way around it.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

If we are still sinning, and say we have no sin within us, there is no more truth remaining in us.

This verse pertains to you. You teach sinning and do it, and then say your soul is clean, by blaming your so-called sin-born body instead.

If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."
1 John 1:8-10

If we sin, we can still repent and confess with godly sorrow unto forgiveness, and be washed clean unto salvation of the soul.

If the truth is in us, then we must claim to have sin.

Oh yes!! Thank you!! I've concluded this with others like you, and they get offended, but you have said it plainly.

You are commanded by your gospel and Christ to always claim you have sin in you. You are commanded to sin, so that you can truthfully claim to still have sin and lust in you.

Obedience to your gospel is to sin, so that you can claim it for yourself.

Perfect. I will save this quote of yours.

 

[Ghada]

It is not only self-delusion to believe in one’s own sinlessness,

Of course it is, for those that obey their gospel to sin and then claim it as your own.

I see now how repenting of all sinning is so offensive to you. How can you obey your gospel and please your Christ by not sinning? You must continue sinning in order to truthfully call yourself a sinner, and to rightfully claim having sin in you.

but it is a personal attack on God’s character. God’s evaluation of humanity is that we are such hopeless sinners that only a sinless saviour from heaven could rescue us.

Bravo!!! I have never seen someone so exuberantly obey their gospel they preach. If there was ever a hopeless sinner and knows it, that's you. 1 John 1:8 is your calling card. Write it on the door post of your house. Let it be frontlets between your eyes. Never ever forget to sin, so that you can loudly proclaim what sin you hopelessly have in you.

As for me and my house, we'll pass.

And so evangelicals have long described themselves as ‘forgiven sinners’, ‘sinners saved by grace’, and ‘not good, just forgiven’. The point is to highlight God’s grace in saving us.

Wretch.

When the Bible speaks of glorifying God in our bodies, He's not saying to glorify Him by sinning bodily. That's your gospel, not the Bible's.

The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. That us not a command to non-believers,

Your gospel teaches He is commanding us to sin, so we can be forgiven. Not the Bible.

Oh, please read the following scriptures that Scott Downey shared too.

No thanks. Seriously. You have no hope of proselytizing me to your gospel.

Paul was struggling as all Christians _ at times _ with the flesh.

Paul was for a time, until he was delivered of double mindedness in Romans 7, to move on to perfection of Romans 8, and walk after the Spirit at all times, and not sin with the flesh at all.

And according to your gospel of having sin always within in, then claiming only to sin from time to time, is rebellion.

The spirit wars against the flesh and vice versa, a spiritual battle going on in us ...

No battle in your doctrine. You always have sin and lust in you, and must always reinforce it by claiming it.

By your gospel, you must never forget to tell yourself, I have sin in me. I have sin in me. It's a commandment you must daily keep.

and this becomes less of an issue as we grow.

Less and less sinning as you grow while sinning, is ok Christian religion, but not the good news and pure religion of Jesus Christ.

Certainly a.mature Christian is at peace most of the time.

Just as your mature Christianity is only sinning less of the time. I understand that. You prefer an unrepented sinful version as opposed to the peace of God that passes all understanding all of the time.

I am not without peace of God in Christ Jesus. You believing that or not, is of no importance to me.

I have become more of a giver, less judmental, more loving, kind, etc. ...

Wretch. You're such a good liberal with such a great liberal gospel. No wonder you preach a commandment to always call yourselves sinners with tolerant 'understanding' at all times.

and He is still not done with me.

But he certainly has perfected you. You obediently sin and claim it all the time.

But I guess you feel that you are perfect, pure and everyone who knows you sees you as a Saint? Yeah ... sure.

Mock on.

Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Once thing is for sure. You are certainly not a hypocrite in your own gospel. You got all sin in you at all times, and you mock anyone that does not.

I am disobedient and an heretic rebel to your gospel. Even as I am in Christ, in whom is no sin, I have no sin in me in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Of course it is, for those that obey their gospel to sin and then claim it as your own.

I see now how repenting of all sinning is so offensive to you. How can you obey your gospel and please your Christ by not sinning? You must continue sinning in order to truthfully call yourself a sinner, and to rightfully claim having sin in you.




Bravo!!! I have never seen someone so exuberantly obey their gospel they preach. If there was ever a hopeless sinner and knows it, that's you. 1 John 1:8 is your calling card. Write it on the door post of your house. Let it be frontlets between your eyes. Never ever forget to sin, so that you can loudly proclaim what sin you hopelessly have in you.

As for me and my house, we'll pass.




Wretch.

When the Bible speaks of glorifying God in our bodies, He's not saying to glorify Him by sinning bodily. That's your gospel, not the Bible's.

Your gospel teaches He is commanding us to sin, so we can be forgiven. Not the Bible.






No thanks. Seriously. You have no hope of proselytizing me to your gospel.


Paul was for a time, until he was delivered of double mindedness in Romans 7, to move on to perfection of Romans 8, and walk after the Spirit at all times, and not sin with the flesh at all.

And according to your gospel of having sin always within in, then claiming only to sin from time to time, is rebellion.


No battle in your doctrine. You always have sin and lust in you, and must always reinforce it by claiming it.

By your gospel, you must never forget to tell yourself, I have sin in me. I have sin in me. It's a commandment you must daily keep.





Less and less sinning as you grow while sinning, is ok Christian religion, but not the good news and pure religion of Jesus Christ.




Just as your mature Christianity is only sinning less of the time. I understand that. You prefer an unrepented sinful version as opposed to the peace of God that passes all understanding all of the time.

I am not without peace of God in Christ Jesus. You believing that or not, is of no importance to me.


Wretch. You're such a good liberal with such a great liberal gospel. No wonder you preach a commandment to always call yourselves sinners with tolerant 'understanding' at all times.




But he certainly has perfected you. You obediently sin and claim it all the time.


Mock on.

Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Once thing is for sure. You are certainly not a hypocrite in your own gospel. You got all sin in you at all times, and you mock anyone that does not.

I am disobedient and an heretic rebel to your gospel. Even as I am in Christ, in whom is no sin, I have no sin in me in Christ Jesus.

" By their fruit you will know them". If anyone would read this post, the fruit they would see is hate, hostility, twisting and distorting words, sin at it's core.

Can you understand just this one verse:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8
That is saying you YOU are deceiving yourself AND the TRUTH is NOT in you!

Christians are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, likely that is is foreign concept to you as well. Ask to recipe the Holy Spirit, only then can you discern scripture, all scripture is spiritually discerned.

I am losing interest in conversing anymore with you, you are too hostile even though I brush off the insults, they are dead, no truth or power behind them, just a mean spirited, unhappy and confused person.
I'm going to close this one by asking the same question that I asked in your other "James 2 ..." thread.
I suspect you are a Jehovah Witness, your theology aligns with theirs and that would most things and why just about everyone is disagreeing with you in both these threads.
Are you a Jehovah Witness? God is watching you, listening, don't lie.
Actually, the more I think of it, maybe you aren't? JW religion is banned in Syria, so it makes it highly unlikely that one would even attempt to become one having to meet secretly in private homes. Your attitude about the cross in the other thread is what made me think of JWs. They dispise the cross, think it is an evil symbol, avoid it like the plague. However, what puzzles me is that all the JW's in my family are kind, nice, gentle spirits - you certainly don't align with them in that respect.
Maybe it is just the area you were brought in, a Muslim nation and the hardships of wars, terrorism, an axis of evil, hate and hostility everywhere you turn and they also have a works based salvation belief. Just answer the question with a yes or no. If not, we are all curious what church you did learn this unorthodox theology in?

 

[Ghada]

That certainly is true of all who agree or disagree.

Not me.

It was not I who spoke.

No, you just wrote.

Some from the Bible and some not.

 

[Ghada]

We who "have the mind of Christ" however are not double minded except when it comes to our own dealings.

The problem here is we never do anything with himself alone, because every man's dealings are called to account by God.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


Every thought, word, and deed we do, has to do with God, whether to please or displease Him.

Double heartedness is doing one then the other and back again.

Indeed, one can speak from his own mind and also from the mind of Christ.

This is true. We all have opinions, and can even share them, so long as they are not presented as the truth of God without Bible proof.

But it is God who decides what is true and told and when, and who and when one is sent or cut off.

True. He judges each of us according to His words in the Bible.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

And those who are His hear His words, while it is unbelief that causes some not to hear.

Hear and do His words. Unbelief is by unrepented disobedience. Because men don't repent of their sinning, they don't believe Jesus' gospel.

Jesus says people don't come to Him and His way of life, because their deeds are still unrighteous.

No man believes the gospel of Jesus Christ and comes to His light, without first repenting of our sinning.

 

[Ghada]

Then leave it to Paul who did not refuse to tell the truth of this matter. Which made him qualified to speak contrary to what you, as you have said, "don't do."

I apologize. I should have made myself clear. I've been down the road so many times, showing from Bible verses, how the Christian doctrine of Christ now making all people sinful from the womb, is not the Bible.

I've never experienced any Christian convinced of it and teaching it, to even acknowledge any verse and point I make about it. They just keep repeating themselves in a useless dance around every argument I offer.

However, If you want to address this one point, then we can try and go from there:

Christ does not now make sinful babes from the womb. He never has and never will. Since He is the only Maker of all things, then there are no sinful babes made in nor from any woman's womb.

 

[Ghada]

No one who speaks the truth about the struggles of the newborn spirit with the old body of flesh would rightly say, "I do not sin, therefore my old body will not suffer the condemnation of death."

I agree. Whoever says it makes two errors by unblibical Christian doctrine. The first is thinking the body is condemned for man sinning with his body. The second is thinking our bodies are mortal because of sinning with them.

Meaning, you misunderstand.

You mean me? Are you one of those that changes what others teach, in an appearance of addressing their points?

There is no claim of the flesh being "uncondemned",

Yes there is. I claim it to counter the Christian doctrine of condemning the flesh, rather than the soul and spirit of man sinning with the flesh.

but rather that "those who are alive and remain" in the old body of flesh in service of God until it passes, do continue to struggle in that war between the flesh and the spirit.

This is true, although the Bible calls it enduring temptations from the devil, without lusting and sinning with him.

Some Christians call their continued lusting and sinning 'struggling' with the flesh. There is no such struggle, but only falling flat on their faces in prostration and service to their master and devil.

That's just the way it is with God's judgment in the Bible, for anyone doing unrighteous works of the flesh. It's not a condemnation of men, but of God. And teaching His truth on the matter, is not the teacher condemning anyone either. It's God's word that does the judging and condemning of every man's sinful deeds, without respect of persons.

 

[Ghada]

On the contrary, the mortal bodies formed in the womb are of the same elements of this old earth and world that are to be destroyed by God with "fervent heat and with fire."

I agree.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

Just flesh and blood and grass and dirt. Made by Christ natural and mortal. There's nothing sinful nor righteous about God's natural creation.

He only burns of the old earth, in order to change it for His new earth to dwell with man on. All man's world works on this earth with burn with it.

Man's sins in this life however, are either washed away to be newborn with all things of God, or they are burned with the soul unrepented unto death.

And it is for this very reason that we must be born again of the spirit of God. Such is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is for the very reason of sinning on this earth, that we must be purged of all sinning and newly sanctified through the Spirit.

The only reason lust and sin is in the world, is because man sins in the world. Death passes upon all souls sinning with the devil. Death passes upon all flesh, because Christ makes all flesh mortal by nature.

No physical bodies of man, animal, nature, and grass is ever born again. The bodies of men however do live again in the resurrection of the dead, unto life with God or shame away from God.

 

[ScottA]

However, If you want to address this one point, then we can try and go from there:

Christ does not now make sinful babes from the womb. He never has and never will. Since He is the only Maker of all things, then there are no sinful babes made in nor from any woman's womb.

All who are born of the flesh are of the lineage of Adam, a child of sin by "kind" as, not just Adam and Eve, but the whole race was "driven out" from the presence of God and the former sinless status by sin, according to the scriptures; confirmed by Christ Jesus who rightly called Israel (even God's chosen) the sons of Satan, saying, "You are of your father the devil", and therefore preached, "unless one is born again [of the spirit of God], he cannot see the kingdom of God”--that is "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—

To say differently, is to deny Jesus is that tree of life and His insistence that having been born of the flesh, one must also be born again of the spirit of God; or is to claim that people are no longer first born of the flesh, but are first born of the spirit of God.