Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Christ is not the whole tree. He is the root. The tree also has branches that represent individual believers. There are already Israelite believers grafted into the tree and some have been grafted in for the past almost 2,000 years, so why do you act as if that is a future thing? Being grafted into the olive tree represents someone being saved. Salvation is an individual thing, not a national thing.
Because they did not yet understand the nature of the kingdom. It's a kingdom that did not come with observation (Luke 17:20), is not of this world (John 18:36) and "is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17). Jesus is the ruler of the kingdom, not Israel. And He will deliver His kingdom to the Father when He returns at the end of the age (1 Corinthians 15:22-24, Matthew 13:40-43).
Paul made it clear that Peter was in the wrong for doing that. Peter, a Jew, was not himself living like the Jews but instead like the Gentiles in the sense of not doing the works of the law because he knew he was no longer under the old covenant law but instead under the new covenant. So, it made no sense for him to tell Gentiles to act like Jews when he wasn't act like a Jew in the sense of following the old covenant law himself.
Exactly! And the wild branches of the wild olive tree, representing Gentile believers, are grafted in with them, which makes Gentile believers part of the Israeli tree as well. Being a physical descendant of the nation of Israel is not the requirement for being part of the Israeli tree. Faith is required. Those natural branches (Israelites) without faith were broken off (Romans 11:17,20). So, the Israeli olive tree represents spiritual Israel whose citizenship is based on faith, not nationality. The good olive tree is a symbolic representation of what Paul writes about in passages like Ephesians 2:11-22 and Romans 10:9-13. Jew and Gentile believers have been brought together as "one new man" and "one body" with no difference between them in the spiritual Israel of God that is represented by the cultivated/good olive tree of Romans 11.
It's rude to point out how you often don't bother to specifically address our points? I think it's rude that you don't bother addressing our points.
Do you think that Jesus only died for Gentiles? What more does He need to do for Israelites than die for their sins? Do you think there has not been any Israelites saved in the past almost 2,000 years? There certainly has been. But, you act as if God has postponed salvation for them. No, He has not. Even the ones who were blinded in Paul's day later had the opportunity to be saved and he even said he hoped to help save some of them (Romans 11:14).
Yes in Christ as God`s word says. `For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.` (Col. 3: 3)
I specifically address some of your points otherwise we wouldn`t be discussing `Israel`s olive tree.`
Why do you try to say that Christ Himself is the olive tree as if He is the entire olive tree? No, He is the root of the olive tree with Jew and Gentile believers being the branches of the olive tree. The branches are part of the tree, so it makes no sense to act as if Christ Himself is the entire olive tree.
I wrote about the OT saints (please read carefully in future) who are looking to God for their inheritance of the city, the New Jerusalem. (Heb. 11: 16)
You specifically address very few of our points and ignore most of them.
No, Christ is the root of the olive tree whose natural branches represent Israelites with wild olive tree branches from the wild olive tree, representing Gentile believers, grafted into it as well. Any of the natural branches/Israelites who were in unbelief were broken off and those who had faith, like Paul, remained in the tree.
No, I say that the olive tree with natural branches represents Spiritual Israel (not national Israel). The natural branches represent the Israelites and any Israelites who were in unbelief were broken off with the remnant of believers, including Paul, remaining in the tree. Gentile believers, represented by branches from the wild olive tree, were grafted in with the Israelite believers in what many call the good or the cultivated olive tree. Being part of national Israel only requires being a physical descendant. Being part of Spiritual Israel requires faith. That's why the olive good/cultivated olive tree represents Spiritual Israel and not national Israel.
If I say that is John`s pen, meaning the pen is John`s, but it is NOT John. See the difference?
I don't recall you writing that to me. I don't read all of your posts that you make to others.
The Lord will be coming to us, so His throne will be on the new earth for eternity. The Lord deals with individuals when it comes to salvation, not nations. You are mistaken.
Salvation is NEVER a national issue, it's ALWAYS an individual issue. You are mistaken. Also, believing that Zechariah 14:16-21 will be fulfilled literally in the future causes contradictions with other scripture which says that Jesus put an end to animal sacrifices with His "once for all" sacrifices and that God long ago made it so that He wants people to worship Him in spirit and in truth rather than having to go to Jerusalem to worship Him (John 4:19-24).
So, you meant to say that the olive tree is Christ's and not that the olive tree itself is Christ? I wish you could learn how to communicate more clearly. It takes a lot of effort for us to try to understand what you're saying.
Right. He's the root of the olive tree and not the olive tree itself.
He purpose for all people of all nations is for them to repent of their sins and put their faith in His Son in order to be saved and receive eternal life. You make God out to be a respecter of persons (that He shows partiality) as if one's nationality means anything to Him in relation to their salvation, but He is not.
He is not the olive tree. Stop saying that. He is the root of the olive tree that Gentile believers are part of as well. Why do you ignore that the branches from the wild olive tree, representing Gentile believers, are part of the olive tree as well? Jesus is the root of the olive tree which contains natural and wild branches representing Jew and Gentile believers. Jesus brought Jew and Gentile believers together as "one new man" and "one body" by His blood (Ephesians 2:11-22). Why do you try to divide what Jesus brought together as one? That is a very serious error on your part.
Paul said that unbelieving Israelites were separated from the Lord (they were blinded and were cut off from the olive tree) but a remnant remained with the Lord and in the olive tree (Romans 11). Why do you put so much importance on nationality when scripture does not? It's about faith, not nationality.
Why do you put this in parentheses as if this isn't an important point? Salvation is an individual thing, not a national thing. That is shown repeatedly throughout scripture. It's whosoever believes will not perish but have everlasting life, not whatsoever nation believes.
Nothing separates believers from the Lord, but unbelief separates unbelievers from the Lord, regardless of what nation they are from.
I couldn't care less whether you change your view or not. I'm simply presenting the contradictions of Premillennialism. As you can see above by the avoidance, there is no rebuttal forthcoming.
yes indeed my freind . Salvation is never a national issue , its always an indivdual issue .
unbelief . Oh it is a deadly thing indeed .
verily verily i say unto thee
