Inevitably Two Masters

[Bartholomew Jones]

So in this parable..
You hear, he that is faithful... and I hear he that is unfaithful.
Jesus is speaking to 2 different audiences I think.
And depending on who is listening will hear it as a blessing or a rebuke.
The Pharisees felt guity and they heard the unfaithful as themselves.
Others like the disciples who had no guilt would hear a blessing.

Is there two sides of the same coin here?

Hugs

Close...but
Actually, you should always hear the two sides, not one or the other. That's why it's a particular kind of story-a parable.

 

[Heart2Soul]

No. It says that there was a report that he had mismanaged. Not that he did necessarily mismanage. Later, it says he managed unjustly. In accountancy, there's always a measure of unjust records and management.

Jesus is telling the parable....so I take it literally

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Mammon is Aramaic for 'riches'.

There is a question asked by the Lord in verse 9, which is not clear by the wording -

'And I say unto you, (that is - 'say I unto you?') - make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.' (No! I say) - He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches.'
(Luke 16:9-11)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you.

This may seem overbearing but it's not. "Riches," in ancient terms, think, Hebrew, are very different from "riches," in modern terms. A rich man then, if his riches moved, that is were producing something of value to the people, were a burden. It's a lot harder to move, let's just say silver and gold, than to move, say, 250,000 US Dollars. Sign a check, done.

My point is that money today is fraud. One head of house leaves a refugee camp 6 or 7 days a week to earn $10. Another works less than a half hour and the first guy actually produces.

Your translation is the stronger translation. But the two are correct. I'll prefer yours and meditate more.

 

[Ziggy]

Close...but
Actually, you should always hear the two sides, not one or the other. That's why it's a particular kind of story-a parable.

That would be Solomon with the two women and the dividing of the child..
How to reason... and have right judgement..
willing to listen to both sides..
I'm glad I'm not a judge. Although everytime we read the Bible we become our own judges of what we hear and how we hear it.
work, work, work, lol
I luv it!

Hugs

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Hi @Bartholomew Jones,

@farouk mentioned the riches held by the church, to which you responded with a note of disparagement. I understand your reaction, but if the money they have is used to the glory of God, and to maintain the ministry that they are engaged on in His Name at home and on the mission field, then surely that is the faithful administration of money donated to the service of God and should therefore not be despised. For the workman is worthy of his hire, and those who are engaged in the Lord's work have to be paid for the work that they do, for they have to live and support their families just as you and I do.

May they faithfully make known the unsearchable riches of Christ, like the Apostle Paul, which are 'true riches' indeed. Who maintained his own ministry by the work of his own hands, as a tentmaker, but was thankful for the gifts presented to him by faithful brethren who sought to support him.

Just thoughts.
Within the love of Christ
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

This argument is not to disagree but because I think, debit/credit and I do nit-pick concerning truth, especially if you seem "refined."

Jesus is the established truth. He always shunned the disciples' solutions; they invariably involved money, or human works. And we know, sorely, who kept the money bag.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Jesus is telling the parable....so I take it literally

Literal means, if he said it's a report, it's a report.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Literal means, if he said it's a report, it's a report.

Ok...what's your point brother? In plain English someone blew the whistle on him.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

That would be Solomon with the two women and the dividing of the child..
How to reason... and have right judgement..
willing to listen to both sides..
I'm glad I'm not a judge. Although everytime we read the Bible we become our own judges of what we hear and how we hear it.
work, work, work, lol
I luv it!

Hugs

Paul (or Peter) said, "a spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is judged by no man."

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Ok...what's your point brother? In plain English someone blew the whistle on him.

I already said my point. You can't assume anything.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Paul made tents so he wouldn't be a burden to the church.
But when he needed them they were there.
So he worked in the world and reaped from in the church.
He would take the overflow of charititable gifts from some and give to those that are lacking.
And they had all things in common..

just thinking
Hugs

That's the way it should be done. It's not

 

[Ziggy]

Paul (or Peter) said, "a spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is judged by no man."

So what's the diffence between testing the spirits and judging the spirits?

One is a process and the other a conclusion?

 

[Ziggy]

That's the way it should be done. It's not

I agree..

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

never have fully understood money. The word says the love or lust of it is the root of all evil. Was this ‘root of all evil’ in the garden then, the temptation of vanity and the bondage of corruption? Also have never fully understood this spirit of mammon Mammon /ˈmæmən/ in the New Testament of the Bible is commonly thought to mean money, material wealth, or any entity that promises wealth, and is associated with the greedy pursuit of gain.

James 4:1-4 From where (did)come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. [4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

could it be that friendship with the spirit of mammon (the greedy pursuit of gain) is the root of vanity and corruption...that you might ‘devour’ in on your own lust. He said to seek first the Kingdom of God ...then told those devouring “you seek to kill Me.” You seek to kill Me. Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain:

The deceitfulness of riches: Luke 12:19-21 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. [20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? [21] So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
^there is something beautiful in the above (imo), in ‘I know what I will do...I will tear down my barn and build a greater barn to bestow all my fruits’ but ‘Thou fool’ unless God builds ‘raises up’ the ‘greater’ garner and displays His fruit (Galatians 5:22-23 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance...)...whose children do those things (treasure) (fruits) laid up for, belong to?

struggled for a while with who is ‘I will tear down my barn and build a greater one to bestow my fruits’ ... He told them ‘I tell you if you tear this body down then I will raise it up again’ Greater. And will display the fruit of the Spirit ...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance...

point is unless God builds the ‘greater’ then ‘For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?’ Luke 9:25

1 Corinthians 3:19-23 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. [20] And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. [21] Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; [22] Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; [23] And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

2 Corinthians 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Only if God is the builder to display His fruits...is there any treasure laid up and kept for the children.


2 Corinthians 12:14 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.

Again the only treasure that can be left to posterity is a section of ground resembling what it was when God entered into His rest.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

well mammon maybe what the Lord mentions in His parable as heart2soul posted but two masters can be anything served, that which you are willing to do things for, such as money, or favor.

thing is if you refuse to do things for money you will starve in a capitalist society and many other societies unless you have means to sustain your well being without employment. so it looks like you are saying anyone willing to do things for money are servants of evil and not of God.

Unless they are decidedly "towards" what's better. Changing. Resisting.

Mammon is the inferior stuff of life. In King lemuel's mother's letter she says to give wine and beer to those who are perishing. A king would always have more beer and wine than he would. Someone offers me a smoke every day. I say, sure. I don't smoke it of course. There's plenty along my way who will have to have one.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Slow down people, I can't catch up!

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

So in Eden.. Adam and Eve have everything to eat.
But Eve covets this fruit. But then shares it with Adam.
Did Adam covet also but let Eve take the blame?
Either way covetousness led to death. Because it didn't belong to them.
They stole it. And lied about stealing, and then blamed a snake for them stealing..

talk about passing the buck...

No, I don't think so. Eve was tricked/deceived. Adam did what any dumb man does for a woman, what she wants. That's why God, if you read Gen 3 carefully, lays ALL the blame on the serpent. The serpent deliberately did it: LORD God to the serpent, "because you have done this..." the only other "because," was to Adam, "because you listened to your wife..." He's not blaming him though because he says, "for your sake," in the stronger translation, Geneva or KJV.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

I appreciate the Life of the Apostle Paul. Christ knows who will be His and who is not. We are drawn . . . which seems to negate the option of "choice."

Jesus says none can come to him unless the Father draws him. If you're desparate to know him you'll beg God the Father to draw you to his Son. The first disciples were first disciples by John the Baptist. I suspect it wasn't an easy road. These were poised, perhaps unwittingly, to become Jesus' disciples.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

No, I don't think so. Eve was tricked/deceived. Adam did what any dumb man does for a woman, what she wants. That's why God, if you read Gen 3 carefully, lays ALL the blame on the serpent. The serpent deliberately did it: LORD God to the serpent, "because you have done this..." the only other "because," was to Adam, "because you listened to your wife..." He's not blaming him though because he says, "for your sake," in the stronger translation, Geneva or KJV.

Sorry if I am "off topic" here, but it seems pretty clear to me that the Apostle Paul lays blame on Adam. In all of Romans 5, Satan nor the Devil is [not] mentioned at all (unless I am deceived and cannot see the Truth).

Romans 5:12, 15-19 NLT - "When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. ... 15 But there is a great difference between Adam's sin and God's gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God's wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ. 16 And the result of God's gracious gift is very different from the result of that one man's sin. For Adam's sin led to condemnation, but God's free gift leads to our being made right with God, even though we are guilty of many sins. 17 For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God's wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ. 18 Yes, Adam's one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ's one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone. 19 Because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners. But because one other person obeyed God, many will be made righteous."

The great question is: Why does Paul lay blame on Adam and not Eve, nor the Devil? It's a tricky one . . . for sure.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Jesus seems to be saying that the steward cut people a break on what they owed his master/rich man, and subsequently the debtors treated that steward with kindness. It appears to be a metaphor for laying up treasures in Heaven by means of not requiring people to pay their full debts in this life. If we are faithful in the least (money & forgiving debt) we can be trusted to be faithful in much (Heavenly treasures). This is not an excuse to hoard money.

I think we can relieve the *total debt BURDEN* of anyone, a good man or a scoundrel, saved or unsaved. Maybe just a genuine smile or other gesture.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

I hate money, too, Rich. I try not to judge others, but sometimes it is difficult to look at my holier-than-thou Christian neighbors with four or five new autos in their driveways (for their teenage kids, some of them). The piles of garbage they produce each week is sickening, too. Their homes are all lit up for Christmas (paganism), but I never put up lights or a tree. They can't stand my 1997 pick-up truck in my driveway. I, too, feel like a rich man because of the blessing God has brought upon me.

When I was still studying formally something told me I would live among the homeless for a season of my life. I was terrified I might actually BE homeless.

About two years ago I bought an empty lot, just a grassy plot of land in a rough, residential part of town. I bought it cheap off the tax sale list just to raise crops. Well, a few years ago I started saying to peers and others, "In 10 years I'll have nothing to do with money." About a year and a half ago, I think it was the Lord that said, "live severely." So I preserved what food I could by fermentation, and threw out over-processed foods, unplugging my fridge. The next day I discontinued my electric service. The day after he said again, "live more severely." That's when I called my landlord to say I was going to have to break my lease. So I moved to my lot. I kept it up for about a year. I learned a lot about not depending so much on money in that year, and not heeding man.