Intelligent Design (controversy forewarn, for those: Sensitive, Milk Fed, or Old Wine Bags)

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LRD765732171

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Feb 9, 2011
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[INTELLIGENT DESIGN | ID]
First question. Given the context of Intelligent Design, as experienced, it appears to hold that Only God created life (living beings, that from plants, animals, to humans, who claim to be ones with The Spirit), and did so Directly at His Hand, and that life forms cannot otherwise arise from non living matter, and, moreso, that complexity cannot arise from simplicity among its strongest statements, thus, requiring His Direct Hand to explain and prove in Faith, of Faith. What are the Inspired Thoughts, that assure us that living material beings, among [Zoe, animals], [Nephesh, breathing life], [Awdam, the body, blood, and spirit human], cannot ever arise from the simple basic elements, without God's Hand being present, to stir the material elements, above and beyond the powers of physics that are weak, for that is often claimed to be the mere PanTheism of matter, with the PanTheists finding God being claimed found in particles, atoms, stars, planets, air, water, rocks, flowers, animals, humans, machines, and so forth, akin to God being made equal to merely photons, gravity, nuclear forces, and kinetic energy, as being The Living Word and Spirit of life, de facto.
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 001 (objects, elements, molecules) | NDS001]
Can someone address these supports for Natural Design, I shall enumerate? Take the stars and planets. The presumed data shows the early universe with a simple even dsitribution of hot dominant Hydrogen and lesser Helium, that gravity then naturally took instabilities of density, and in feedback of these natural forces, built the stars, which are small point droplets of fusion supported gas lost in the vastness of space, somewhat like finding a swiss watch in an empty field the size of earth's orbit in coarse analogy, that is built from simplicity. A very swiss watch like star, with an array of likewise swiss watch like complex elements, like 92U238, which contain 92 protons, 146 neutrons, and 92 electrons in 19-odd delicate electron shells, from mere H and He simplicity. And the fusion destabilization in fuel consumption, produces a series of supernovas in time space, that enrich the increasingly complex elements, and produce the planets in similar gravitational design, producing tiny spherical objects in the vastness of space, like another swiss watch coming from nothing at all as Fundamentalists have said at times, but was from mere chaos and simple disorder. Plus, we see, now having these very complex elements being produced from mere simple elements, using pure physics, that we next have the formation of complex molecules from simple basic elements, using the electromagnetic force, forming water, ammonia, methane, some basic amino acids, and a few thousands of complex minerals and alloys of metals, as well as radioactive nuclear element metals and its molecular compounds.
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What can possibly explain this example of complexity Naturally arising from simplicity, in numeros levels and steps of hierarchy, that Intelligent Design denies vehemently, in some circles of Faith-full Christians of The Word, with the Veil of Division Rented, by those with a voice of Revelation, and deny any mere Traditions of Men making Null and Void God's Word?
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 002 (complex molecule complex feedback) | NDS002]
Likewise, can someone address these further supports for Natural Design? With a solar system, containing power from the sun, and a planet with thousands of molecules floating around in a liquid phase of matter most readily, with solar power cycles and numerous environments mixing, the nature of chemistry contains an idea of Combinatorial Chemistry, inwhich the array of molecules can attempt combination reactions, in a system of exponential feedback. For example, say you have an ocean with 16 molecules. There are 2^16 possible molecule combination reactions. If only 0.1% of these initial combinations actually produce new molecules, that produces 65 new molecules that did not exist before. Now, after some time, we would have 81 molecules. With that, in feedback, we would have 2^81 possible molecule combinations. If even 0.000001% of those more complex molecule combinations produce new molecule reactions, we would have 2.4*10^18 new molecules that did not exist before.
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This is also Fundamentally Inexplicable, for we now have numerous complex compounded molecular species arising from a lower degree of simplicity. All this, even though Russian Scientist Alexander Oparin, described much the same issue, 100 years ago, about 1910, for humans to study over three generations.
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 003 (extended object precipitates) | NDS003]
Furthermore, with numerous complex molecules available in this exceedingly complex ocean that arose from simplicity, under san PanTheist natural physcis, we start to form bodies of matter. Glue like molecular species would adhere to stones and sand in ocean beaches and down by the river sides. Waves would constantly smash and reform these compounds. Likewise, the first forms of polymeric molecules could form, in chains and precipitates and solutions. These would produce the foundation for a kind of digital chemistry, based on naturally numbered numerical molecular species. The glues, precipitates, lipids, slimes, and other molecular species of the water, would form increasingly durable bodies of matter on stones and sand, for the simple molecules would get recycled, and the durable fittest species of molecules would stick together in these bodies of matter, compared to less fit material body molecular complexes, in continuing Combinatorial Chemistry development in an environment far from equilibrium, in molecular and body survival of the fittest and fluid.
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 004 (extended object tissues) | NDS004]
As extended material bodies continue to evolve, there would arise increasingly reactive mixes adapted to their environments. Some would reside in niches of rocks, like future limpets. Some would bind rocks and sand together, self sustainignly. Some would form freely floating bodies in sponge and nugget like bodies of matter. Some would precipitate calcium or silicon that support themselves against the agitations of time like proto-corals or proto-stromatolites. Some would even form reactions that can swell and shrink, accoring to environmental effects, like a chunk of proto-starfish materials, or autonomous reaction motions according to environment effects. And further in time, we would see tissue like materials form, with a core sustaining material, and layers of outer reactive interactive bodies of matter, like a proto-skin or proto-meat.
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 005 (proto-life reaction complexity systems) | NDS005]
And as these extended bodies of matter form, the digital chemistries and nodes of reaction systems within the fittest surviving matters, that special systems would form. Some would capture sunlight in the daytime, and some would capture energy in sugar like molecules, while others would consume the energy during the nighttime reactions, in a model of proto-photo-synthesis. That first form of energy locking in a Combinatorial Chemistry proto-photo-synthesis reaction network, could alter the atmosphere to become oxygen rich, because it was the natural waste product of a carbon rich ocean, and carbon dioxide reduction in that synthesis, natural in the lowest energy fittest sugar locking mechanism. Likewise, all other Combinatorial Chemistry reaction system modes would follow along, in adaptation to the atmosphere, from this backbone of proto-photo-synthesis which fuels the entire capture of sunlight system. Other molecular systems could also form, that consume products of the plant like extended molecular bodies, like proto-animal reaction systems, and lichen like proto fungal-algal reaction systems, within the greater natural Combinatorial Chemistry. And some reactions could form reaction nodes like proto-bacterial, and proto-eukaryotic lifeforms, and extended body feedback reaction systems could produce fractal like extended bodies for proto-sea-urchin, and proto-starfish like objects. All the time, combinatorial extended body material interactions would occur, exploring various cells, mats, webs, body types, shells, sponges, stromatolites, and so forth, like we see in Cambrian Explosion type evidence, as increasingly complex reaction systems, shape shifting controls, and material combinations are refined in hundreds of thousands of years of combinatorial explorations of analog matter.
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 006 (intersection with strong digital RNA / DNA C.C.) | NDS006]
And, all of the time, an increasing complexity is ever arising, from many steps and levels of hierarchies of simpler forms of matters, with natural physics, Combinatorial Chemistry, evolution, and not an Unmistakeable Intelligent Design, except in some humans of Blind Faith to Traditions of Men, that appear to make Null and Void with neither Response Ability nor Account Ability, to what I am trying of a Judge Meant Dei, and The Word of God. And as we know from evidence, there eventually arises an Evolution of RNA / DNA strong digital chemistry and cellular programs, that develop in mere stages of additional complexity arising, from what is always the simpler molecular reaction network of a proto-form of life, in a symbiotic relation, as modern life forms evolve from the simpler durable reaction material bodies, that Combinatorial Chemistry found, naturally, in a racist Darwinian survival of more fit species of compound bodies, that the RNA / DNA / cellular took over in imbued merging with the same naturally fit forms of raw Combinatorial Chemistry networks of the already existing extended body forms. Also, the modern example of RNA / DNA codes show a natural stochastic error protection resilience, that can be based on the very Combinatorial Chemistry that gave rise to a robust statistic error correcting code, as a veritable living fossil remain of the original early Combinatorial Chemistry soup's nature, recorded in those frequencies and statistics contained within the modern genomes, that became nearly frozen in that state, with the advent of the synthesis of all these components in cellular and multicellular lifeforms, that can only vary much more slowly than a RNA / DNA lacking raw Combinatorial Chemistry, through the mechanism of that reproduction method in Digitally Encoded Descent.
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 007 (modern human descent) | NDS007]
The example of primate and human DNA that has been decoded, appears to show a chromosome by chromosome, chromosome paragraph by chromosome paragraph, identical architecture, and even a fusion of two primate chromosomes into one chromosome of fitly matched continuity like the coast of the americas with the coasts of Europe and Africa across the Atlantic. Such a high quality of match in coarse to fine resolution architecture, seems to show a slow conservative code inheritance, in Biblical Kind from Kind form, for why would God take a primate's code, to make a souped up human model, when All Things Are Possible with God, and God could have written a very different, but functionally identical genome code, that would not have proven God, for Fundamentalist Extreme Conspiracists could have called humans a specie alien to earth, and scientists could have said it was impossible to determine how humans arose, and Christians could have said that it implies that God created humans. But it all appears quite natural, in Darwinian Racists Species Descent through Genetic Inheritance.
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[NATURAL DESIGN SUPPORT 008 (odd intelligent design) | NDS008]
Finally, we see a very peculiar God, who chooses to design species like, air breathing whale and dolphin mammals with mammal skeletal formula, air breathing mammals of sea lions similarly skeletonized, aquatic birds like penguins, flying mammals like bats, aquatic reptiles like Galapagos Iguana, and so forth. Why would an Intelligent Design God of Fundamental Chistianity, create such peculiar designs to author confusion, that so resembles Darwinian Evolution in disguised form? If land mammals and air birds were meant to swim, he would have given them all fins and flippers, no? A God of confused Revelation, who also Intelligently Designed The Satan to come disguised as Jesus, with an apostacy, and Satan's followers also disguised, saying, Lo, Christ is here, or Lo, Christ is there, and are told by Christ to believe them not, all so the Loving God can blind them so they might believe the lie, and be damned by God, as II Thessalonians outlines, and The Gospels say on The Apocalypse of God, by the Satan standing where he ought not in Jerusalem, as the abomination of desolation, that God fully Intelligently Designed Inerrantly and Infallably for His Pleasure. All more akin to God over primates, who are strident in Faith in the Traditions of Men, who only make God's Word Null and Void, only in teaching Milk, and unsuitable for Strong Meat.
 

Joshua David

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Feb 10, 2011
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Just wanted you know know that I am working on a reply, but since you have so much in there, it may take me a little while.

Joshua David
 

Joshua David

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Feb 10, 2011
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Sarcasm mixed in with real answers forewarned for those: puffed up, and those that take themselves too seriously.

(takes a deep breath) Just to let you know from the beginning, which is to say before I get to the points that you raised in your extremely long post, that is filled with long rambling sentences that takes forever to try to figure out exactly what you are saying, that if you wish to be taken seriously in a discussion, you .... ( takes another breath ) really need to work on trying to present your case in a more simple and concise manner so that it is not such a chore to go through it and try to understand what you are trying to say because whether you want to accept it or not, these long drawn out sentences, which are intended to showcase your stunning brilliance and your unassailable grasp of even the most complex physics, actually has the opposite... ( takes another breath) effect of what is needed which is to have a clear and thoughtful discussion .
laugh.gif


Ok now that that is said, from what I gathered from your post, you are asking that since simple atoms can come together to form more complex molecules, and these molecules can form objects that have a higher and higher form of complexity, why do we feel the need to suggest God is the reason for this? Well to answer your question, consider this. This universe is build on a very specific and finely tuned set of rule or laws. These laws are the exact reason that atoms can combine and form stars, planets, moons, people, animals, and plants. Now let's take the origin of the universe. The same science that you put forth as evidence to disprove the necessity of God, says that the universe started with the Big Bang. Now whether you believe this or not, is not the issue of this discussion, so for the sake of discussion, let's just assume that science is correct. This same science tells us that the universe started with an unbelievable explosion, and from this explosion, everything that exists, came into being. Now this same science tells us that unassisted, an explosion does not bring order, but disorder. Case in point, if you take a bunch of letter blocks and put them in a pile and light and explosion, no one is going to expect the letters to fall in such a way as to spell "Kaboom". What you will have is a jumbled mess. Now that is not to say that there are no explosions that bring order, there are, but the only ones that bring in any such order are the ones that are acted upon by an outside force.

So by the time of all those atoms and molecules are bunch enough together to form DNA and RNA, we come to another issue.. The issue of Intelligent information. There is information in DNA.. The same information that scientist are just now beginning to understand. Information is by definition created by an intelligence. You take a hundred million letter blocks and throw them up in the air and when they come down they will not spell out the book War and Peace.

And as far as your odd intelligent design argument, where you see odd combinations, I see creativity. As if God had to make his creation to your liking or even understanding.

Hope this helps.

Joshua David
 

LRD765732171

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Feb 9, 2011
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Extremely long post is in the eye of the beholder. # Likewise, rambling is in the eye of the beholder, but if ad-hominum is Christian, then I AM witness, understood your sentiment, but not how the adjective applied, for I do not see that, as I understand you and myself quite clearly. So simple and concise is what I presented, but I understand finite thinking humans. # Furthermore, the weakness in shortening a post on complexity theory, is that it creates increased Heisenberg Uncertainty in short word dagger use, versus long sword sweep of systems, of rima and mena, in the New Testament greek, if my greek doesn't escape me. A full presentation, that is far shorter than a 5[MB] Bible, is required to transmit the thought in minimal uncertain terms, for a connected reader. To be honest, it is actually simplified by textbook standards. And would you talk that way to, say, God Himself, who was full and puffed up with Himself, by asking a cattle farmer from B.C. times if he knew differential equations that put stars in the heavens and form the basis of life when God created all of that? Job was not that sarcastic, though God gambled that Job would not curse God if God allowed Satan to torture Job.
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[JD#3.001]
That said, I see that you agree, firstly, that complexity does arise from simplicity. Few Fundamental Perspectives get that far. However, you equate the basic laws of physics that continue through time and space, with God's Hand, so I may assume that you are a PanTheist, as I mentioned in [ID], that is the result of equating physic's laws with God's Hand, prima facia. The God you suggest is made of gravity to form celestial objects in space, electromagnetism to allow molecules to form from the particles of elements, and nuclear forces to allow numerous elements of various size to form, and to allow fusion energy conversion to support stars for an extended period of time, all with kinetic energy. The PanTheism of God defined as the material plane of existence, and unchanging physical force laws. Furthermore, the only tuning required, is far from needing so finely a tuned set of values, as you implicitly assumptively suggest, for whether you believe it or not, all you require is cyclical power flows, a fluid phase of matter, and in the fluid, materials capable of forming relatively solid extended masses in the fluid, to produce life, by the scenario of the post. If we examine other planets, there may be life in acidic oceans with silicon based life, or life in atmospheres of gas planets within the dense lower portions, or even on moons like Titan, with petrochemical lakes, all based on fluids, precipitate capacity, and "daily" power cycles in solar and environmental conditions of energy flux. And even if physics tuning were varied, but fits the criteria added here in [JD01.001], we would still have some form of liquid, with solutes capable of some solid forms, rotating about a star of some form, for daily power cycles, far from static equilibrium stagnation.
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[JD#3.002]
You err, in the word, on explosions of words from letters. Case in point, if you have, say, 10^29 letters in an ocean of letters, that bond in variable ratios of affinity and reactivity, in a context of continued variable environmental correlation fitness, you will get many words, of many forms, and in many languages. It is called Markov Chain Probability strings in 1-D for words, and 3-D for atomic element based molecules. Your argument fails, also, because you require an overly exact predetermined complex string of specifically correlated functionality to form all at once, and, worse yet, to form from only a single event assumption, ignoring [NDS005] of a daily solar cycle energy flux. For, if you observe an "alphabet" subset of durable reactive molecules, set against a background of a more generic molecular soup, and placed them in an ocean, with cycled sunlight and heat, for millions of solar cycles, you would get many complex molecular "words" to form, as described in [NDS003]. Some of the subset would capture sunlight. Related subsets would convert the free electrons into energy storing molecules. Other co-related subsets would consume the energy storing molecules at night. Numerous molecular "words" would form, within the network, of these durable and co-relating fittest molecules, in a long term cyclical power environmental context. In short, I think you have confused a small explosion, with an ocean under the sun, and you have also confused the complexity of the feedback of a durable reactive Combinatorial Chemistry with a mess. I agree, a chart of earthly photo-synthesis or sugar-ATP metabolism, to some, may look like a mess, but it is all actually quite natural, if you have eyes to see the complexity, that automatically forms over time.
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[JD#3.003]
As far as your odd God Intelligence argument, where you see a God made equal to physics in a PanTheism of matter-forces, I see error. For example [There is information in DNA] is lacking. For there is information in molecules themselves. There is information in durable reactive molecules. There is information in the network of reactions within those durable reactive molecules, within a greater Combinatorial Chemistry. So you fall short of the mark, there. Furthermore, you make an error, here, in [Information is by definition created by an intelligence], for all of the elements, molecules, durable reactive molecules, and network of reactions of those molecules in a larger Combinatorial Chemistry, is chock full of information, but it is an abstract layer of intelligence inherent within the system's steps and levels in natural molecular heirarchy, that is an abstract information layer marked by forms, durability, reactivity, and auto-co-relation, and worse, natural information that arises from a PanTheist definition of God made equal to the generally tuneable forces of physics, that you propose, which negates the God defined as a Being that Christianity proposes. That is more a Hindu God System of Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu, and not the God of The Bible of Christianity.
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So, overall, I know exactly what it is that you are saying, but still find that it rambles in the nature of The Traditions of Men, that make Null and Void, The Word of God, as too often taught by play acting teachers of The Word, who are more into Milk, and unsuitable for Strong Meat of The Word, that I know that we have both been exposed to, in The World. For if you take a million monkeys (or even children) typing for food in a world environmental context, with extended experience of the world, over an extended period of time, you will get thousands of books and messages, of many types, and in many keyboard based languages, that wrongly may not be the Original Copy of War and Peace, but will be some second rate inferior knock offs, with many language versions, typical of The World, in God's Mediocrity made Manifest through primates.
 

Joshua David

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Feb 10, 2011
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LRD76572171,

OK, you really need to get a grammar book and look up the definition of run on sentences. Seriously. And if you truly believe that what you presented was simple and concise, then you need to look up those words as well. Again I am not saying that you have to change the content of your posts, just how it is presented. I have read tons of text books, and none of them use the grammatical format that your posts are, but present their information in simple sentences and therefore making the information, and your point easier to address and understand. So for the sake of the sanity of anyone who ventures into this thread allow me to instruct you in use of proper grammar without loosing any of the content.

I will take just the first two sentences.

Extremely long post is in the eye of the beholder. # Likewise, rambling is in the eye of the beholder, but if ad-hominum is Christian, then I AM witness, understood your sentiment, but not how the adjective applied, for I do not see that, as I understand you and myself quite clearly. So simple and concise is what I presented, but I understand finite thinking humans. # Furthermore, the weakness in shortening a post on complexity theory, is that it creates increased Heisenberg Uncertainty in short word dagger use, versus long sword sweep of systems, of rima and mena, in the New Testament greek, if my greek doesn't escape me.

Well you may think that it was an extremely long post, as well as being rambling, but I disagree. You're arguments were ad-hominum, seeking to belittle my arguments, by belittling my character. If this type of this is Christian, then I am your witness. But I do not understand how the adjective applied because I understood both of us quite clearly. I did present my argument in a simple and concise way, but I can understand if you are having trouble understanding it. The reason that I did not want to shorten my post on the aspect of the complexity theory, is because like the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, which says when you get down to the smallest scale, it becomes impossible to definitely define a particles location, the shorter that your argument it becomes impossible to truly communicate exactly what you want to say. It is like the difference between the words Rima and Mena, in the New Testament Greek, if my Greek doesn't escape me.

Now will I admit that my version is technically longer, because of my breaking up your ideas into 'bite size' pieces, but anyone who is honest will tell you that my version is much easier to understand because I did not use run on sentences. I do apologize if you thought my post was ad-hominum, it was not intended to be, just trying to inject a little humor in to the post. If it offended you then I am sorry. You asked if I would talk that way to God? The answer to you question is Yes! I would. And the reason that I know I would is because I have in the past. I told him that I did not understand the bible. It was confusing, and I did not get anything out of it. I didn't understand why he just couldn't come out and say what he meant to say. I told him that if he really expected me to read his word then he was going to have to teach me what he was talking about. And you know what... he did. I started to really understand what the bible meant. And it really started to blow me away.. The bible is the ultimate example of explaining complex subjects in simple language.

That said, I see that you agree, firstly, that complexity does arise from simplicity. Few Fundamental Perspectives get that far. However, you equate the basic laws of physics that continue through time and space, with God's Hand, so I may assume that you are a PanTheist, as I mentioned in [ID], that is the result of equating physic's laws with God's Hand, prima facia.

You may not assume that I am a PanTheist, well I guess you could, but you would be wrong. I am not a PanTheist, I am a Monotheist. Pantheist is defined as the belief that the universe and God are identical. I do not believe that at all. I see God as the creator, and the universe as the creation.

The God you suggest is made of gravity to form celestial objects in space, electromagnetism to allow molecules to form from the particles of elements, and nuclear forces to allow numerous elements of various size to form, and to allow fusion energy conversion to support stars for an extended period of time, all with kinetic energy.

I see the 4 basic forces of the Universe as being part of this fine tuning... Look at it this way.. if you were to adjust just one of the 4 basic forces.. increase the force of gravity or increase the force of electromagnetism, the universe would not have formed in such a way as to support any life. And the four basic forces are just a small part of all the different forces that must be set just so for us to exist. To me that shows order. That shows intelligence. That shows design. Imagine the universe as being a machine in a lab.. with 11 or so different knobs. You would have me believe that all the knobs, were tuned into the exact degree, not too much, and not too little and all of this just come to be by chance? No I am sorry my friend.. I love science. I believe that science declares the glory of God. And the more I learn about science the more I am convinced that I just don't have enough faith to be an athiest.

You err, in the word, on explosions of words from letters. Case in point, if you have, say, 10^29 letters in an ocean of letters, that bond in variable ratios of affinity and reactivity, in a context of continued variable environmental correlation fitness, you will get many words, of many forms, and in many languages. It is called Markov Chain Probability strings in 1-D for words

Yes you would get words... What are words if just letters put together in a certain way. Take the word Hoofnek. What does it mean. It means nothing because I just made it up. But if I told you that Hoofnek was the name of a pet and I added that word to the sentence. Hoofnek played outside. Then you have information. If I throw up a bunch of blocks I might be able to find quite a few, 2 to 3 letter words, but what I won't find is information... what I won't find is a sentence communicating an idea. What I won't find is purpose. So random words is one thing. Intelligent information is another.

As far as your odd God Intelligence argument, where you see a God made equal to physics in a PanTheism of matter-forces, I see error. For example [There is information in DNA] is lacking. For there is information in molecules themselves. There is information in durable reactive molecules.

And again I am not a Pantheist, but I do thank you for making my argument. Where there is information there is intelligence, and therefore, you have intelligent design.

Joshua David
 

LRD765732171

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Feb 9, 2011
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[JD#4.001]
As a claimed person of The Word, JD, if you read some HAN\ YU~ Chinese, Kanji, Russian, C code, or other languages, you will get to understand other forms of language, that is beyond basic grammar books, though basic grammar books are also good to read, for what they apply to. And languages like German are quite versatile for long sentences, if you read something like Georg Hegel. Though comparing 1990's C Windows Compliers to recent Windows Compilers, show how humans of traditions are creators who don't know the heart of humans, in a complexity and carelessness that makes my writing look downright simple. How can you truly believe that you are the entire standard of the english language, and attack all other larger and complex forms, personally, with your god is less of Meat, and more of Milk, that you push for exclusively like a child. The Millenium is supposed to be a time of teaching, and I know basic grammar, but I AM also able to write in a more complex fashion, to some degree. Likewise, many humans, in the Traditions of Men, use a simplistic language that misleads, only to keep the masses ignornat, when there are long range contexts that must be studied, between numerous books of The Bible, to piece together some concepts like the Figs and The Fig Tree of Israel seen in The Gospels and also seen in Old Testament, or the thread of the abomination that makes desolate, standing where he ought not, of Satan, through The Gospels and Old Testament Major Prophets. I agree, though, that God made The Word's Depth complex, and less than easy, so humans do not venture into it, remaining blinded, and loose context, to belive a lie, and be damned by God (II Thessalonians 2.1-12), in a mystery. I will try to keep Natural Design simple for you, to pamper you, but it is difficult on complexity theory in a progression of understanding, or The Bible, both, JD.
[JD#4.002]
And you inject humor? It is Bad Humor if you ask anyone honest. I can inject bad humor with the worst of them, but that isn't Christian except to children and unlearned, to chastize them in their stubbornness. And you noticed exactly, that to make the snip of my paragraph easier, made the paragraph longer. You supported the Hesenberg Uncertainty Principle for words, by your own admission. If you want teaching, then ask some questions of what you don't understand in what I write. Pointed questions, word definitions, subject matters, and so forth. What I write teaches what I AM trying to say, to the best of a degree, and unlike a dead word, I AM able to magnify what I write, as I did last response, to some larger degree. And I understand your confusion, for I read The Bible too, and find numerous confusions and misleading human traditions, and peculiar dialects, that are so comprehensively complex, that even I AM appalled at the manifestation of The Word, in many ways. Thus I posted the questioning post, to see what humans of this planet think, of the Norm or of the Others. For The Bible, if you did not know, is written in three levels of complexity, for the simple, the normal, and the advanced, like parables of mystery that are defined at times, like the Sower Parable metaphors, explained as the world and the good and evil teachers. And, JD, beware the Milk Teachers among men, in unceased simplicity, only because they can mislead, with wheat in some, and empty tares in others, mixed in the world. II Thessalonians warns humanity, that with Satan, with his false teachers in pleasing soothe-saying words, are sent to decieve the world, and that Jesus warns of in the end times, that if they say Christ is here or Christ is there, to not believe them, for the church is corrupted in those times, turned into a tomb sepulchre, painted white on the outside, but contains dead bones. Of the apocalypse, Matthew 23, Mark 11, 13, and Luke 21 give some view of the falling away apostacy, and Satan's deceptive apocalypse.
[JD#4.003]
You play God, saying that I cannot assume PanTheism from your God of the forces response #3, when you assume many things, yourself. You deny others, and yet you end up doing the same thing, yourself, so that is evil, JD, if you are not just a play actor hypocrite. For God could "create" the cosmos and leaves it to develop life Exactly as I described. Or God could "create" the cosmos, and continue building in making life, and then leaves. Or God could "create" the cosmos, "create" life, and continue residing in aspects of Being. You insufficiently dismissed Combinatorial Chemsitry, evolution, and addressing any of the other points, in sufficient detail, in blanket statements without depth of root, in your first response #3. You may not dismiss, without explaining at a depth relatively like how I addressed your #3 post, or presented in #1, JD. And if you don't understand, read my post #1 and #4 more than once, and ask some questions on Natural Design.
[JD#4.004]
I told you about how the four forces can vary to a larger degree than many claim in ignroance, and still form life in [JD#3.001]. Here, let me help your eyes onto the right sentence, again, for you [Furthermore, the only tuning required, is far from needing so finely a tuned set of values, as you implicitly assumptively suggest, for whether you believe it or not, all you require is cyclical power flows, a fluid phase of matter, and in the fluid, materials capable of forming relatively solid extended masses in the fluid, to produce life, by the scenario of the post.]. Do you want me to chew your words for you, too, JD? Gravity can vary many percent either way and still form life. Same with E.M.. Same with Nuclear Forces. Yeah, there might be 214 elements in other designs, or 45 elements in another, and stars might be what we think of as mostly "infrared", but as long as fluids, daily power cycles, and solution Combinatorial Chemsitry can occure, life can arise by Natural Design. You have missed this point in [JD#3.001], which I amplified more here, since you said it was a precisely just-so tuning to a Miraculous Standard of precision, having compared every possible parallel universe, knowing like God, that every other parallel universe has not any life, and thus God is required. And, trust me, I know the arguments that you have heard, from milk fed teachers in Traditions of Men, that are Null and Void, though they Sound Persuasive, I agree, to a child, meant to believe a lie, and be damned by God ... sorry my decieved friend. I could get into a Quantum Physics, even, that decribed how the forces tune themselves to life, but that is beyond both science, and your level of understanding and tempermeant with me, at the moment. And, yet, I can see the need for God, to create the mass-energy influx required to setup the Big Bang, under that theoretical Quantum Physics that auto tunes the cosmic forces, to any one of many four force value systems, that could all allow life. As for targeting the influx, for quantum optimization of the cosmos four forces, to maximize life's potential, is something not in physics books or The Bible. If you want to discuss the quantum physics feedback design theory, I can magnify the word a bit more deeply, but I note that you tire easily, so I'll leave that up to you, and my patience. For you simply want me to believe that quantum physics has been so deeply and truthfully studied in proven contextual parallel universe certainty of their nature, in 11 control dimensions of a most-certain physics paradigm, that if we could understand that true physics, then God would be revealed, and science would be shown to not merely be a bunch of play acting hypocrite scientists in a flood of lies to begin with. And when science medias almostly exclusively claim that the Human Spirit has not substantial models, in their ignorant ways of Dogma.
[JD#4.005]
Regarding the letters arguemnt, you confuse accumulated information of durable reactive nature, as ONLY coming from a designer's hand directly, in *ullshit word games of $tupidity. Yes, a designer, in a context of a world of accumulated information, might create something. But information arises in nature, far after God's Hand has acted in an initial cosmos creation. I explained that before. You did not catch that. Reread my posts of this thread multiple times, and ask a damned question, if you can form a question on that.
[JD#4.006]
And anyone educated knows that [(of molecules) Where there is information there is intelligence, and therefore, you have intelligent design.] is a load of crap. Just avoid those Tautologies, false position premises, and word definition *ullsh!t semantics games of $tupidity. That type of statement in dialoge, only serves as an example of garbage information, that you should know is garbage. Just don't add that ignorance to make humans flee, in this context, of Bad Humor of a sadistic child like $tupidity. You insult God, teachers, masters, and non-ignorant people. Just stop doing that, for Christians do that too much, Scientist do that too much, and Humans in general do that too much on ignorant socialist racist biggoted underdevelopped planets like earth. You're only getting me to do that too, which makes you a corrupter, in this thread context, with JD being a corrupter who calls that a lifestyle of culture. AND YOU GO PANTHEIST AGAIN, MAKING MATTER ENERGY INTO AN INTELLIGENCE. Stop being exclusively retarded that way, JD, and GROW. Reread my earlier posts, multiple times, and ask some damned questions on that. You sound worse than Michael Behe, Gerald Shroeder, and Richard Dawkins before they reprinted their books. REREAD MY POSTS #1, #4. Since you don't like assumptions, do you have medical conditions I should know about affecting your intelligence, so that I don't make an assumption of your dysfunction?
 

LRD765732171

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Feb 9, 2011
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[JD#4.001]
As a claimed person of The Word, JD, if you read some HAN\ YU~ Chinese, Kanji, Russian, C code, or other languages, you will get to understand other forms of language, that is beyond basic grammar books, though basic grammar books are also good to read, for what they apply to. And languages like German are quite versatile for long sentences, if you read something like Georg Hegel. Though comparing 1990's C Windows Compliers to recent Windows Compilers, show how humans of traditions are creators who don't know the heart of humans, in a complexity and carelessness that makes my writing look downright simple. How can you truly believe that you are the entire standard of the english language, and attack all other larger and complex forms, personally, with your god is less of Meat, and more of Milk, that you push for exclusively like a child. The Millenium is supposed to be a time of teaching, and I know basic grammar, but I AM also able to write in a more complex fashion, to some degree. Likewise, many humans, in the Traditions of Men, use a simplistic language that misleads, only to keep the masses ignornat, when there are long range contexts that must be studied, between numerous books of The Bible, to piece together some concepts like the Figs and The Fig Tree of Israel seen in The Gospels and also seen in Old Testament, or the thread of the abomination that makes desolate, standing where he ought not, of Satan, through The Gospels and Old Testament Major Prophets. I agree, though, that God made The Word's Depth complex, and less than easy, so humans do not venture into it, remaining blinded, and loose context, to belive a lie, and be damned by God (II Thessalonians 2.1-12), in a mystery. I will try to keep Natural Design simple for you, to pamper you, but it is difficult on complexity theory in a progression of understanding, or The Bible, both, JD.
[JD#4.002]
And you inject humor? It is Bad Humor if you ask anyone honest. I can inject bad humor with the worst of them, but that isn't Christian except to children and unlearned, to chastize them in their stubbornness. And you noticed exactly, that to make the snip of my paragraph easier, made the paragraph longer. You supported the Hesenberg Uncertainty Principle for words, by your own admission. If you want teaching, then ask some questions of what you don't understand in what I write. Pointed questions, word definitions, subject matters, and so forth. What I write teaches what I AM trying to say, to the best of a degree, and unlike a dead word, I AM able to magnify what I write, as I did last response, to some larger degree. And I understand your confusion, for I read The Bible too, and find numerous confusions and misleading human traditions, and peculiar dialects, that are so comprehensively complex, that even I AM appalled at the manifestation of The Word, in many ways. Thus I posted the questioning post, to see what humans of this planet think, of the Norm or of the Others. For The Bible, if you did not know, is written in three levels of complexity, for the simple, the normal, and the advanced, like parables of mystery that are defined at times, like the Sower Parable metaphors, explained as the world and the good and evil teachers. And, JD, beware the Milk Teachers among men, in unceased simplicity, only because they can mislead, with wheat in some, and empty tares in others, mixed in the world. II Thessalonians warns humanity, that with Satan, with his false teachers in pleasing soothe-saying words, are sent to decieve the world, and that Jesus warns of in the end times, that if they say Christ is here or Christ is there, to not believe them, for the church is corrupted in those times, turned into a tomb sepulchre, painted white on the outside, but contains dead bones. Of the apocalypse, Matthew 23, Mark 11, 13, and Luke 21 give some view of the falling away apostacy, and Satan's deceptive apocalypse.
[JD#4.003]
You play God, saying that I cannot assume PanTheism from your God of the forces response #3, when you assume many things, yourself. You deny others, and yet you end up doing the same thing, yourself, so that is evil, JD, if you are not just a play actor hypocrite. For God could "create" the cosmos and leaves it to develop life Exactly as I described. Or God could "create" the cosmos, and continue building in making life, and then leaves. Or God could "create" the cosmos, "create" life, and continue residing in aspects of Being. You insufficiently dismissed Combinatorial Chemsitry, evolution, and addressing any of the other points, in sufficient detail, in blanket statements without depth of root, in your first response #3. You may not dismiss, without explaining at a depth relatively like how I addressed your #3 post, or presented in #1, JD. And if you don't understand, read my post #1 and #4 more than once, and ask some questions on Natural Design.
[JD#4.004]
I told you about how the four forces can vary to a larger degree than many claim in ignroance, and still form life in [JD#3.001]. Here, let me help your eyes onto the right sentence, again, for you [Furthermore, the only tuning required, is far from needing so finely a tuned set of values, as you implicitly assumptively suggest, for whether you believe it or not, all you require is cyclical power flows, a fluid phase of matter, and in the fluid, materials capable of forming relatively solid extended masses in the fluid, to produce life, by the scenario of the post.]. Do you want me to chew your words for you, too, JD? Gravity can vary many percent either way and still form life. Same with E.M.. Same with Nuclear Forces. Yeah, there might be 214 elements in other designs, or 45 elements in another, and stars might be what we think of as mostly "infrared", but as long as fluids, daily power cycles, and solution Combinatorial Chemsitry can occure, life can arise by Natural Design. You have missed this point in [JD#3.001], which I amplified more here, since you said it was a precisely just-so tuning to a Miraculous Standard of precision, having compared every possible parallel universe, knowing like God, that every other parallel universe has not any life, and thus God is required. And, trust me, I know the arguments that you have heard, from milk fed teachers in Traditions of Men, that are Null and Void, though they Sound Persuasive, I agree, to a child, meant to believe a lie, and be damned by God ... sorry my decieved friend. I could get into a Quantum Physics, even, that decribed how the forces tune themselves to life, but that is beyond both science, and your level of understanding and tempermeant with me, at the moment. And, yet, I can see the need for God, to create the mass-energy influx required to setup the Big Bang, under that theoretical Quantum Physics that auto tunes the cosmic forces, to any one of many four force value systems, that could all allow life. As for targeting the influx, for quantum optimization of the cosmos four forces, to maximize life's potential, is something not in physics books or The Bible. If you want to discuss the quantum physics feedback design theory, I can magnify the word a bit more deeply, but I note that you tire easily, so I'll leave that up to you, and my patience. For you simply want me to believe that quantum physics has been so deeply and truthfully studied in proven contextual parallel universe certainty of their nature, in 11 control dimensions of a most-certain physics paradigm, that if we could understand that true physics, then God would be revealed, and science would be shown to not merely be a bunch of play acting hypocrite scientists in a flood of lies to begin with. And when science medias almostly exclusively claim that the Human Spirit has not substantial models, in their ignorant ways of Dogma.
[JD#4.005]
Regarding the letters arguemnt, you confuse accumulated information of durable reactive nature, as ONLY coming from a designer's hand directly, in *ullshit word games of $tupidity. Yes, a designer, in a context of a world of accumulated information, might create something. But information arises in nature, far after God's Hand has acted in an initial cosmos creation. I explained that before. You did not catch that. Reread my posts of this thread multiple times, and ask a damned question, if you can form a question on that.
[JD#4.006]
And anyone educated knows that [(of molecules) Where there is information there is intelligence, and therefore, you have intelligent design.] is a load of crap. Just avoid those Tautologies, false position premises, and word definition *ullsh!t semantics games of $tupidity. That type of statement in dialoge, only serves as an example of garbage information, that you should know is garbage. Just don't add that ignorance to make humans flee, in this context, of Bad Humor of a sadistic child like $tupidity. You insult God, teachers, masters, and non-ignorant people. Just stop doing that, for Christians do that too much, Scientist do that too much, and Humans in general do that too much on ignorant socialist racist biggoted underdevelopped planets like earth. You're only getting me to do that too, which makes you a corrupter, in this thread context, with JD being a corrupter who calls that a lifestyle of culture. AND YOU GO PANTHEIST AGAIN, MAKING MATTER ENERGY INTO AN INTELLIGENCE. Stop being exclusively retarded that way, JD, and GROW. Reread my earlier posts, multiple times, and ask some damned questions on that. You sound worse than Michael Behe, Gerald Shroeder, and Richard Dawkins before they reprinted their books. REREAD MY POSTS #1, #4. Since you don't like assumptions, do you have medical conditions I should know about affecting your intelligence, so that I don't make an assumption of your dysfunction?
 

LRD765732171

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And to test free speech in this christian founded america, here is an analysis of that Intelligent Designing God's Inerrant Infallable One Way Only Way Creator, and what That God Wilfully Chose to Manifest in His Cosmos through The World.
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Jeremiah 3[And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.]
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Jeremiah 7[8Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. 9Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; 10And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? 11Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the LORD.]
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Jeremiah 11[13For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal. 14Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble. 15What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest.]
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Jeremiah 9[2Oh that I had in the wilderness a lodging place of wayfaring men; that I might leave my people, and go from them! for they be all adulterers, an assembly of treacherous men. 3And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD. 4Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders. 5And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity. 6Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the LORD. 7Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will melt them, and try them; for how shall I do for the daughter of my people?]
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Jeremiah 44[1This word came to Jeremiah concerning all the Jews living in Lower Egypt—in Migdol, Tahpanhes and Memphisa—and in Upper Egypt: 2"This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You saw the great disaster I brought on Jerusalem and on all the towns of Judah. Today they lie deserted and in ruins 3because of the evil they have done. They provoked me to anger by burning incense and by worshiping other gods that neither they nor you nor your fathers ever knew. 4Again and again I sent my servants the prophets, who said, ‘Do not do this detestable thing that I hate!’ 5But they did not listen or pay attention; they did not turn from their wickedness or stop burning incense to other gods. 6Therefore, my fierce anger was poured out; it raged against the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem and made them the desolate ruins they are today. 7"Now this is what the Lord God Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Why bring such great disaster on yourselves by cutting off from Judah the men and women, the children and infants, and so leave yourselves without a remnant? 8Why provoke me to anger with what your hands have made, burning incense to other gods in Egypt, where you have come to live? You will destroy yourselves and make yourselves an object of cursing and reproach among all the nations on earth. 9Have you forgotten the wickedness committed by your fathers and by the kings and queens of Judah and the wickedness committed by you and your wives in the land of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem? 10To this day they have not humbled themselves or shown reverence, nor have they followed my law and the decrees I set before you and your fathers. 11"Therefore, this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: I am determined to bring disaster on you and to destroy all Judah. 12I will take away the remnant of Judah who were determined to go to Egypt to settle there. They will all perish in Egypt; they will fall by the sword or die from famine. From the least to the greatest, they will die by sword or famine. They will become an object of cursing and horror, of condemnation and reproach. 13I will punish those who live in Egypt with the sword, famine and plague, as I punished Jerusalem. 14None of the remnant of Judah who have gone to live in Egypt will escape or survive to return to the land of Judah, to which they long to return and live; none will return except a few fugitives." 15Then all the men who knew that their wives were burning incense to other gods, along with all the women who were present—a large assembly—and all the people living in Lower and Upper Egypt, said to Jeremiah, 16"We will not listen to the message you have spoken to us in the name of the Lord! 17We will certainly do everything we said we would: We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and will pour out drink offerings to her just as we and our fathers, our kings and our officials did in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. At that time we had plenty of food and were well off and suffered no harm. 18But ever since we stopped burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have had nothing and have been perishing by sword and famine." 19The women added, "When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes like her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?" ]
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BEARING CRITERIA: If God never gives humans more than they can bear, as many claim, what is the criteria for judging what is borne? If a human lives or dies, everything is borne by them, in the very definition of God's Word, in any human's ordained path of God's space time lesson plan. For example, Hitler's supressions and concentration camps, all as the "Final Solution" to the "Jewish Problem" is, by definition, not giving humans more than they can bear. For in such a framing of God's Word as too often taught, there is no criteria to judge God's load, for by definition God is Holy, and there is no outer frame of reference available for judgement as to what meets the criteria of being more than a human can bear. God, the people's Immortal Hero.
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EXPONENTIAL TALENT USURY RETURNS: God gives talents-monies-gifts to humans, and by the framing of God's parables, shows that God expects exponential return on God's given talents, or else have them taken away, as an "indian giver", and given to the one who is more profitable in a greed is good for God paradigm. And because not any mention is made of God giving talent, and having them loose the talent altogether, implicitly shows there must be an even more grave penalty for lack of profitability, for them, because the one given a talent who preserves it until God's Return, has it taken away in reward to perfect preservational protocol. Therefore, God is not a "Green" paradigm, but is an exponentially growing paradigm, of infinite return at infinite time, that consumes the cosmos-world, and subdues all nature to God's Ways. The same Good God that curses the Jews who practice usury. Thus, God Loves, expecting a return on His Love.
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GOD'S PERFECTION: God is Perfect. An example of The Perfection of God, is that The All Knowing All Powerful Creator, Creating all things for His Planned Pleasure, Has Created 100% perfectly sinful corrupt mere humans, every one, made from His Perfect Infallable Inerrant Intelligently Designed Master Plan, that forced His Free Will upon them that permits their corruption, and, thus, Justifies His Judgement, on His Little Children, who are forced to freely choose His Convicting Enslaving Only Love, in One Way Only Way mistakeable unmistakeable certainty in True Faith. Evidenced in 70 billion dead humans integral estimated through history, and 7 billion humans destined for Loving God's Promised Death, among all of God's Promises.
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GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL LOVE: The unconditional love of God is, in effect, God telling humanity under no uncertain terms, while under the threat of physical death, and ultimate utter soul destruction, used to garner their love, that if they don't choose to love, as their one and only certain choice of The One True God, in God's Given Free Will, of God among Ordained infidel gods in the world, that God will utterly destroy their soul He Created. In other words, love God unconditionally, or else. For one is all ways free to go to hell, in God's all too often taught way, which is Free Will Choice, and not an ultimatum to follow the One Only True God.
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THE TRUE ACCUSER: While All Knowing All Powerful God's Intelligently Designed Satan may try to accuse humans to try and destroy their soul, where only God can destroy your soul, God, sitting on His Throne, is the True Accuser of the world, as all sinful humans, for it is the truth that humanity is sinful, and The Word is True, telling humanity from God, that they are sinners needing Christ.
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ABSENT NEGLIGENT BLIND FAITH: God, the All Powerful All Knowing All things are possible with Him Greatest Teacher Guide Merciful Sustainer, God, absent neglectfully left the world of certifyable convicted sinner humans, left in the marginal position among numerous infidel strange god worshiping humans, all Ordained in His Master Plan, in place to teach of God, these corrupt and corrupting humans. So much so, that God was murdered by Kenite corrupted Jews in Rome, while letting a murderer go, Just as God Ordained in His Plan. For God so loved the world, that He sent His Only Begotten Son, so that whosoever believes on Him, would not recieve the death that they so truly deserve, but have everlasting life in His penal substition, after they die in this world. God rewarding humans, after humans die, while in the state of accepting Christ while still alive, the glass darkly sighted little children neglectfully abandonned having choosen rightly, among the numerous Master Planned Ordained infidel god worshipping humans, that are not gods but mere lifestyle choices, for only God is Reality and not mere religion.
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THE ALL KNOWING NEEDS PHYSICAL TRIALS: God, the All Powerful All Knowing Creator and Cardio Knower of humans, must trial and make suffer humans, because God does not know the depths of our love, except under material interface physical proof and assessment constraints on God's Knowledge, The All Knowing God. For humans having faith in God is insufficient for God, requiring human suffering and trials for God to Know the human heart, The All Knowing God, constrained to physical tests of human spirit, like Jews seeking a proof. For The All Knowing God Ordained numerous infidel strange gods, for glass darkly sighted humans to discern among, to Know if humans learn before death, that they have followed a false faith, in God's snare and trap to entrance, convict, and enslave them Goodly to Christ, the One Only True Faith. To teach humans that they do not see as clearly as God, God's Unsearchable Ways, and are able to confuse their unction with a false god, missing the Mistakeable Unmistakeable God, for a false god. Like the Mormons. Like the Seventh Day Adventists. Like the Moslem, Buddhist, Hindu, B'hai, Athiest, and so forth. All distractions and diversions setup and Ordained by God, to trial humanity, fairly, in a test we know is not more than humans can bear, and is not one iota unfair, for God is Love and The Only Way of Life. All other infidel god followers, are merely decieved in a lifestyle. God even Ordains humans who are literally blind, or severely sick, or illiterate, who must put their faith in God, through their faith placed in humans with God absent negligent in spirit, who they must rely on to see The Word, God's Love Letter to humanity. God, Who Ordains infidel false gods, even sending in All Knowledge, His Intelligently Designed Created Satan transfigured as Christ in the apocalypse, with humans saying lo Chist is here or lo Christ is there, but believe them not, with God blinding them so they might be damned and believe a lie. A God so Unsearchable in His Ways, that He Creates the most complex court case of the cosmos, with His Delayed Action Modular Delay Virus apocalypse, so that we know of His Majesty, and can be absolutely certain in the uncertainty of the Infallible Inerrant Ordained cosmos, that God is not the least bit unfair, in His Convicting Way to Christ.
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THE ENGINEERED PERFECT OBEDIENCE HUMAN EXPERIMENT: God, the Master Engineer, created humans perfect and immortal, and placed them in a perfect garden, expecting eternal obedience. And God, who in All Knowledge, controls the movements of His Intellgiently Designed Satan, permitted Satan to walk the garden, tempt Eve, and cause the downfall of humanity, thus marked as sinful in Original Sin, through their own God Given Free Will, tempted beyond His First Law, so that they are made more succeptible to experiment failure, in their given test of perfect eternal obedience to God. Would humans have fallen, if longsuffering patient God did not permit Satan to walk the garden to hasten His Experimental Test of humans, if God simply tested humans in longsuffering patience to the criteria of failure mode to The Law? Though human engineers know in Murphy's Law, that any system that has the ability to fail, will fail in infinite time, God's ways are human-apologetic, and magical mystery unsearchable unfathomable Good, and so are special and different, for God lives by a different law from His Created human experiment. The Good God, the Creator of all things through His Word, from which sin and death were produced. The Good Tree, from which All Evil Fruits arise, for not a thing was created, except through Him. But The Creator of All Things, in All Knowledge and All Power, is not responsible for what He Creates, because God gave humans His Free Will, and so they are responsible for evil, leaving God Holy and Blameless. For while humans are ultimately responsible for what they create, God is not, in His Master Plan. Because God is special and set aside. And because, in Free Will over infinite time, if something can go wrong, it will go wrong, God is Inerrantly Justified in blaming humanity as sinful in THEIR Original Sin and ensuing deaths, trials, and tests, by God, who made the Cosmic Plan Human Experiment for His Pleasure.
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CHILDREN OF MEN: God's Cosmos is a system reliant on the context of His Little Children, as a medium of God's Wars, for God's Pleasure, the purpose for God's Creation of the cosmos and humanity. Akin to Hitler, who knew the key to indoctrination, is to capture the hearts of the youth in their education, usurping their easily confused unction, to a false god, of humans made in God's Image.
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JUDGE-MEANT DEI: God says humans are not to judge humans. The saints of God will judge the world. For Paul does not judge himself, but it is God Who Judges. For humans are to judge humans, and shake the dust off their feet and leave infidels, and to not even bid those humans who carry not the whole doctrine, God Speed, for they become partakers of their evil deeds. For God will judge the living and dead, from the book of life, for their names.
 

LRD765732171

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Though this does not address Intelligent Design versus Natural Design, JD, these sections do show the issues of subject contexts that are unavoidably spread over a very long complex context, or any word of Truth like complexity science, and teachers who can oversimplify or follow Traditions of Men. Kept very simple, here, but losing the content detail. Unfortunately, in Christianity in america, we see alot of oversimplification, and no ability to go into depth of anything, who use and abuse milk, in traditions of men, leaving people pleasant, but ignorant of depth. Depth can understand the simple, but the simple cannot see depth. This is a danger in shortened documents, that may be easy to understand, but are highly prone to misunderstanding. Even as an engineer, I find The Bible incomprehensible in deep system engineering issues, given that it Really IS a complex five MegaByte document, and find the Milk Only teachers unsuitable for Strong Meat to address thoughtfully my questions. I hope this makes some sense.
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[TRADITIONS OF MEN AND WEAKER TEACHERS OF MILK]
FALSE TEACHERS
[traditions, precepts, doctrines, men]
Mark 7.6-9
Colossians 2.8, 2.20-22
Matthew 15.7-9
Mark 7.6-9
Isaiah 29.13-16
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WEAK TEACHERS
[milk, meat]
1 Corinthians 3.1-3
Hebrews 5.11-14
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[LONG RANGE CONTEXT SUBJECT MATTER THAT CANNOT BE COMPRESSED CONCISELY]
ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
[desolation, desolate, perdition, tyre, standing, ought]
Matthew 24.1-51
Mark 13.1-37
Luke 21.5-36
II Corinthians 4.1-6
II Thessalonians 2.1-12
II Peter 3.1-14
Isaiah 23.1-18
Jeremiah 22.1-12, 51.19-44
Ezekiel 15.6-16.63, 28.1-26
Daniel 12.8-13
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FIG TREE AND TYPES OF ISRAEL
[fig, tree]
Matthew 21.18-27
Mark 11.11-14, 13.28-37
Luke 13.6-9, 21.29-36
Revelation 6.12-17
Jeremiah 24.1-10
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And if you reread my [Natural Design] positions several times, try asking basic questions, like What, Where, Why, When, and How, or ask to define some words you don't get, or ask what some sentences mean that you find too long, and I can break that down, by magnifying the word. I have read very long documents in Michael Behe, Gerald Schroeder, and Richard Dawkins, on both sides, and find I can find systems errors being made on both sides. But that takes READING and STUDY with understanding, JD. So read, as a more junior student, and NICELY address the concepts presented, so it can be taught, as I have heard most all of the arguments you show, but find they are all ... lacking. I know you have read them too, seeing those Traditions of Men.
 

Joshua David

New Member
Feb 10, 2011
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OK.. I have tried to get you to change your writing style so that we could have a meaningful discussion, but since you refuse to, which means you are either unwilling or unable to talk like a normal person, I will leave you to your own devices. As I am sure you will rail on about how I refuse to enter into a debate with you, blah, blah, blah. If you ever wish to talk like a normal person instead of using these long, run on sentences, then by all means, I will be happy to debate you. I despise walls of text, and it seems as that is the only way you know how to communicate. Though I would like to point out something.

As a claimed person of The Word, JD, if you read some HAN\ YU~ Chinese, Kanji, Russian, C code, or other languages, you will get to understand other forms of language, that is beyond basic grammar books, though basic grammar books are also good to read, for what they apply to.

Here is the crux of the matter.. We are not discussing in HAN\YU~ Chinese, Kanji, Russian, C code or in any other language. And if you wish to talk the way you do, then I suggest you find someone on this forum that wants to talk in Russian. I am an American. I speak and write in English. And in doing so, I use English grammar. Like you said, basic grammar books are also good to read for what they apply to, and what they apply to is communication in the English Language. And as any 5th grade English teacher can tell you, run on sentences are grammatically incorrect. Now as you put forth, that may not apply to Chinese, Russian or C code, but I do not debate in either of those formats.

What it comes down to is this. You hide behind your writing style. If you were really interested in having a frank discussion, then you would write in a way that facilitates having a frank discussion. So I am left with the only other alternative is that you have no real desire of discussing anything, you just want to come on here and smear Christians good name, and character, and that my friend is something that I have no desire to continue to allow you to do.

Just as a side note. I am reminded of a little boy, we will call him Larry, who goes to the neighborhood basketball courts, because he wants to play basket ball. Now Larry wasn't the best player, but what he did have over all the other boys was he knew all about the game, the rules, the players, everything. When he arrives, he demands that all the other boys play using professional rules, complete with referees, the correct number of players per team, and so forth. The other boys decide to be nice to him, and try it. But when one of the boys makes a mistake Larry takes great joy in telling him that he messed up, and if he was a true player of the game like he was, he would do it right.

Do you know what happened to Larry? He ended up being all by himself, because no one wanted to play with him. But Larry told himself he didn't care. At least he knew the right way to play the game.

I don't know why I thought of Larry.. Do you know anyone like him?

Joshua David
 

LRD765732171

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Feb 9, 2011
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A Christian running away, abandonning his response posts, in Apostacy and Unrepentant Unapologetic Almost Pure Bile Bilge self-professed to be A Believer in God! Miracles do occur. Let's Try your Gold, with God's Sword to divide the word, to see all of your "metal" content in your entirety of your posts. Looks like you produce more crap than gold, about 35% worth reading. I do not apologize, if you choose to stay in Heisenberg Stupidity.

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I Peter 1[7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:]

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Hebrews 4[12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.]

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Sarcasm mixed in with real answers forewarned for those: puffed up, and those that take themselves too seriously.]

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[
(takes a deep breath) Just to let you know from the beginning, which is to say before] I get to the points that you raised [in your extremely long post, that is filled with long rambling sentences that takes forever to try to figure out exactly what you are saying, that if you wish to be taken seriously in a discussion, you .... ( takes another breath ) really need to work on trying to present your case in a more simple and concise manner so that it is not such a chore to go through it and try to understand what you are trying to say because whether you want to accept it or not, these long drawn out sentences, which are intended to showcase your stunning brilliance and your unassailable grasp of even the most complex physics, actually has the opposite... ( takes another breath) effect of what is needed which is to have a clear and thoughtful discussion .]

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[
Ok now that that is said, from what I gathered from your post, you are asking that since simple atoms can come together to form more complex molecules, and these molecules can form objects that have a higher and higher form of complexity, why do we feel the need to suggest God is the reason for this? Well to answer your question, consider this.] This universe is build on a very specific and finely tuned set of rule or laws. These laws are the exact reason that atoms can combine and form stars, planets, moons, people, animals, and plants. Now let's take the origin of the universe. The same science that you put forth as evidence to disprove the necessity of God, says that the universe started with the Big Bang. [Now whether you believe this or not, is not the issue of this discussion, so for the sake of discussion,] let's just assume that science is correct. This same science tells us that the universe started with an unbelievable explosion, and from this explosion, everything that exists, came into being. Now this same science tells us that unassisted, an explosion does not bring order, but disorder. Case in point, if you take a bunch of letter blocks and put them in a pile and light and explosion, no one is going to expect the letters to fall in such a way as to spell "Kaboom". What you will have is a jumbled mess. Now that is not to say that there are no explosions that bring order, there are, but the only ones that bring in any such order are the ones that are acted upon by an outside force.

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So by the time of all those atoms and molecules are bunch enough together to form DNA and RNA, we come to another issue.. The issue of Intelligent information. There is information in DNA.. The same information that scientist are just now beginning to understand. Information is by definition created by an intelligence. You take a hundred million letter blocks and throw them up in the air and when they come down they will not spell out the book War and Peace.

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And as far as your odd intelligent design argument, where you see odd combinations, I see creativity. As if God had to make his creation to your liking or even understanding.

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[
OK, you really need to get a grammar book and look up the definition of run on sentences. Seriously. And if you truly believe that what you presented was simple and concise, then you need to look up those words as well. Again I am not saying that you have to change the content of your posts, just how it is presented. I have read tons of text books, and none of them use the grammatical format that your posts are, but present their information in simple sentences and therefore making the information, and your point easier to address and understand. So for the sake of the sanity of anyone who ventures into this thread allow me to instruct you in use of proper grammar without loosing any of the content.]

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I will take just the first two sentences.]

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[
Extremely long post is in the eye of the beholder. # Likewise, rambling is in the eye of the beholder, but if ad-hominum is Christian, then I AM witness, understood your sentiment, but not how the adjective applied, for I do not see that, as I understand you and myself quite clearly. So simple and concise is what I presented, but I understand finite thinking humans. # Furthermore, the weakness in shortening a post on complexity theory, is that it creates increased Heisenberg Uncertainty in short word dagger use, versus long sword sweep of systems, of rima and mena, in the New Testament greek, if my greek doesn't escape me.]

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[
Well you may think that it was an extremely long post, as well as being rambling, but I disagree. You're arguments were ad-hominum, seeking to belittle my arguments, by belittling my character. If this type of this is Christian, then I am your witness. But I do not understand how the adjective applied because I understood both of us quite clearly. I did present my argument in a simple and concise way, but I can understand if you are having trouble understanding it. The reason that I did not want to shorten my post on the aspect of the complexity theory, is because like the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, which says when you get down to the smallest scale, it becomes impossible to definitely define a particles location, the shorter that your argument it becomes impossible to truly communicate exactly what you want to say. It is like the difference between the words Rima and Mena, in the New Testament Greek, if my Greek doesn't escape me.]

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Now will I admit that my version is technically longer[
, because of my breaking up your ideas into 'bite size' pieces, but anyone who is honest will tell you that my version is much easier to understand because I did not use run on sentences. I do apologize if you thought my post was ad-hominum, it was not intended to be, just trying to inject a little humor in to the post. If it offended you then I am sorry. You asked if I would talk that way to God? The answer to you question is Yes! I would. And the reason that I know I would is because I have in the past. I told him that I did not understand the bible. It was confusing, and I did not get anything out of it. I didn't understand why he just couldn't come out and say what he meant to say. I told him that if he really expected me to read his word then he was going to have to teach me what he was talking about. And you know what... he did. I started to really understand what the bible meant. And it really started to blow me away.. The bible is the ultimate example of explaining complex subjects in simple language.]

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That said, I see that you agree, firstly, that complexity does arise from simplicity. Few Fundamental Perspectives get that far. However, you equate the basic laws of physics that continue through time and space, with God's Hand[, so I may assume that you are a PanTheist, as I mentioned in [ID], that is the result of equating physic's laws with God's Hand, prima facia.]

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[
You may not assume that I am a PanTheist, well I guess you could, but you would be wrong. I am not a PanTheist, I am a Monotheist. Pantheist is defined as the belief that the universe and God are identical. I do not believe that at all. I see God as the creator, and the universe as the creation.]

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The God you suggest is made of gravity to form celestial objects in space, electromagnetism to allow molecules to form from the particles of elements, and nuclear forces to allow numerous elements of various size to form, and to allow fusion energy conversion to support stars for an extended period of time, all with kinetic energy.

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I see the 4 basic forces of the Universe as being part of this fine tuning... Look at it this way.. if you were to adjust just one of the 4 basic forces.. increase the force of gravity or increase the force of electromagnetism, the universe would not have formed in such a way as to support any life. And the four basic forces are just a small part of all the different forces that must be set just so for us to exist. To me that shows order. That shows intelligence. That shows design. Imagine the universe as being a machine in a lab.. with 11 or so different knobs. You would have me believe that all the knobs, were tuned into the exact degree, not too much, and not too little and all of this just come to be by chance? [
No I am sorry my friend.. I love science. I believe that science declares the glory of God. And the more I learn about science the more I am convinced that I just don't have enough faith to be an athiest.]

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You err, in the word, on explosions of words from letters. Case in point, if you have, say, 10^29 letters in an ocean of letters, that bond in variable ratios of affinity and reactivity, in a context of continued variable environmental correlation fitness, you will get many words, of many forms, and in many languages. It is called Markov Chain Probability strings in 1-D for words

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Yes you would get words... What are words if just letters put together in a certain way. Take the word Hoofnek. What does it mean. It means nothing because I just made it up. But if I told you that Hoofnek was the name of a pet and I added that word to the sentence. Hoofnek played outside. Then you have information. If I throw up a bunch of blocks I might be able to find quite a few, 2 to 3 letter words, but what I won't find is information... what I won't find is a sentence communicating an idea. What I won't find is purpose. So random words is one thing. Intelligent information is another.

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As far as your odd God Intelligence argument, where you see a God made equal to physics in a PanTheism of matter-forces, I see error. For example [There is information in DNA] is lacking. For there is information in molecules themselves. There is information in durable reactive molecules.

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And again I am not a Pantheist, but I do thank you for making my argument. Where there is information there is intelligence, and therefore, you have intelligent design.]

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[
OK.. I have tried to get you to change your writing style so that we could have a meaningful discussion, but since you refuse to, which means you are either unwilling or unable to talk like a normal person, I will leave you to your own devices. As I am sure you will rail on about how I refuse to enter into a debate with you, blah, blah, blah. If you ever wish to talk like a normal person instead of using these long, run on sentences, then by all means, I will be happy to debate you. I despise walls of text, and it seems as that is the only way you know how to communicate. Though I would like to point out something.]

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As a claimed person of The Word,] JD, if you read some HAN\ YU~ Chinese, Kanji, Russian, C code, or other languages, you will get to understand other forms of language, that is beyond basic grammar books, though basic grammar books are also good to read, for what they apply to.

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[
Here is the crux of the matter.. We are not discussing in HAN\YU~ Chinese, Kanji, Russian, C code or in any other language. And if you wish to talk the way you do, then I suggest you find someone on this forum that wants to talk in Russian. I am an American. I speak and write in English. And in doing so, I use English grammar. Like you said, basic grammar books are also good to read for what they apply to, and what they apply to is communication in the English Language. And as any 5th grade English teacher can tell you, run on sentences are grammatically incorrect. Now as you put forth, that may not apply to Chinese, Russian or C code, but I do not debate in either of those formats.]

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[
What it comes down to is this. You hide behind your writing style. If you were really interested in having a frank discussion, then you would write in a way that facilitates having a frank discussion. So I am left with the only other alternative is that you have no real desire of discussing anything, you just want to come on here and smear Christians good name, and character, and that my friend is something that I have no desire to continue to allow you to do.]

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[
Just as a side note. I am reminded of a little boy, we will call him Larry, who goes to the neighborhood basketball courts, because he wants to play basket ball. Now Larry wasn't the best player, but what he did have over all the other boys was he knew all about the game, the rules, the players, everything. When he arrives, he demands that all the other boys play using professional rules, complete with referees, the correct number of players per team, and so forth. The other boys decide to be nice to him, and try it. But when one of the boys makes a mistake Larry takes great joy in telling him that he messed up, and if he was a true player of the game like he was, he would do it right.]

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[
Do you know what happened to Larry? He ended up being all by himself, because no one wanted to play with him. But Larry told himself he didn't care. At least he knew the right way to play the game.]

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[
I don't know why I thought of Larry.. Do you know anyone like him?]

 

jiggyfly

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Just a suggestion Lr.....171, if you would post in a color bolder than yellow your post could be more easily read and probably get more response.
smile.gif
 

HammerStone

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I deleted the last post, please try and keep this civil, all.

I'm seeing traces of some very interesting thoughts, but your style is difficult to follow I admit. Essentially you seem to be going to the argument that it doesn't make sense that the complex arose from the simple without the hand of God doing the guiding?
 

LRD765732171

New Member
Feb 9, 2011
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Just a suggestion Lr.....171, if you would post in a color bolder than yellow your post could be more easily read and probably get more response.
smile.gif

I agree, that those Sword-Divided yellow jornalism posts that are from JD are not bold in any way, if you have read, as a claimed person of The Word, being here to witness. In other words, those are HIS YELLOW POSTS, made on this thread. Take this small particle tactical nuclear weapon, to clear out the far too common american terrorists of Christianity THAT I AM witness to, and leave His Own unharmed with not a hair on their heads, harmed.

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Deuteronomy 9[3Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee. 4Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.]

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Ezekiel 21[28And thou, son of man, prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning the Ammonites, and concerning their reproach; even say thou, The sword, the sword is drawn: for the slaughter it is furbished, to consume because of the glittering: 29Whiles they see vanity unto thee, whiles they divine a lie unto thee, to bring thee upon the necks of them that are slain, of the wicked, whose day is come, when their iniquity shall have an end. 30Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity. 31And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy. 32Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.]

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Jeremiah 3[26Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire. 27And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellers, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.]

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Jeremiah 6[27I have set thee for a tower and a fortress among my people, that thou mayest know and try their way. 28They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters. 29The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away. 30Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.]

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Jeremiah 9[22Speak, Thus saith the LORD, Even the carcases of men shall fall as dung upon the open field, and as the handful after the harvestman, and none shall gather them. 23Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD. 25Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; 26Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.]

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Revelation 11[5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.]

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PARTICLE NUCLEAR WEAPON SEGMENT

As I quantum tunneling reconstruction remember, Hitler's "Final Solution" to the "Jewish Problem", of a Fantasia Mickey Broomstick allegory of digital robots run amok, was based on the Hindu Heirachy's power over God's finite bandwidth of manifestation in the material plane of His Prison Planet. For example, using "magic numbers" that are very long, given by an infinitely faster than light processing base, brought down into the human plane and baseband pure digital processors, would allow compact data decompression routines to produce precise lossless images, sounds, and texts to be decrypted. The finite bandwidth memory and processing capacity of the digital based robots would perclude them from gaining access to the systems of generation, as only intelligent humans that are based on the higher quantum power, would be capable of data generation at that level of "magic numbers", so that intelligent humans can be differentiated from digital base robots. A little like DES security, on a higher plane of existence. Likewise, the processing required to decrypt the "magic numbers" would consume digital robot processing capacity, as tools for the humans. Unfortunately, in a TwitterPated MTV end game generation of excessive children robots produced in a production overrun time, will only bring woe to humans who had those children robots in that period, for they will become the easy cannon fodder in the intelligence racism inherent in such a system structure, which the Hindu Heirarchy power percieve the human animal as quantum spirit superior in their compatability, in Hindu Heirarchy secret as well as under God manifesting absent negligent, over the intelligent humans, under the Warden God's management for the Hindus, in a nation like america as it was constituted. Of course, traditional Nuclear Weapons would also work in such a war, easily disabling the digital based robot race and socialist robot children of such apocalypse apostacy in EMP disruption, and leaving the human animals untouched, more or less. Which may be the aspect found in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, if they imported such German Jew robots, into their country in those port cities, for as Frank Caprs said, in Know Your Enemy Japan, says the Japanese all look the same, as if made from the same mold. Any wonder why, in such a manufacturing?

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Theory being, a smaller than Raw Decrypted Dataset, but still Highly Compressed long magic number system, could be used on a very small scale decryption stream processor, where a given magic number would be used to [configure data selection parameters, define an algorithm code, select feedback systems algorithms, make self editing code, control chaotic and fractal signal expansions, make generated data error checks, and setup a post processor] in its set of compact yet powerful capabilities, all used to produce a specific text, image, or data sequence, matching a target decompressed goal dataset. Such an algorithm, due to its nature of feedback, self editing code, and chaotic fractal expansion properties, would produce a pure digital processor algorithm of magic number derivation from a goal dataset, that is so complex, that the only algorithm possible, is that of a brute force parametric controlled bifurcation search reconstruction configuration capacitiy, that would take longer than the time of the cosmos running on an infinite number of discrete processors of any kind, all needed to generate the magic number. And if the magic number is presented from a higher power, to a worthy cosmos, it would produce a natural defence between human animals and pure digital computers, or even with quantum-digital computer hybrid systems, assuming that the higher power knows what it is doing, and all to be taken on ... Trust. Trust between the human animals, machines, and the presumed good higher [power or powers] that presents [its, their] magic numbers to humans and machines, with the higher cosmic power choosing the actions of the human animals and machines, in a holy [trinity, triangle], that is not deceptive, a play acting higher power, or gamble of the cosmos' contained life, but is a Higher Master Plan of A Mutual Quantum Entanglement Cosmic Fabric, made with its inhabitants, and not a God of chaos producing Satan, evils, death, and protocol-less manifestation, as if a Good Tree can be One, in producing Evil Fruits, in the Good Intellgient Design of The Higher Power's Will with the inhabitants. The main problems, being, the unaccountability of a higher power, generation of infidel systems of imitation without perceived protocol, that are pirate systems in that way, and the finite bandwidth nature of unjust unaccountable not response able restriction apparent when given an absent negligent [appearance and manifestation] of that proposed trusted Higher Power or Higher Powers, not of humanity or machine.