Irrefutable biblical proof that death is not abolished at the second coming

[Zao is life]

1 Timothy 3:10
And let these also first (prōton) be proved; then (eîta) let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

There's a period of time appointed between the proton and the eita in the above verse.

Mark 4:17
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward (eîta), when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended."

There's a period of time between the proton and the eita in the above verse.

Mark 4:28
For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first (prōton) the blade, then (eîta) the ear, after that (eîta) the full corn in the ear."

There's a period of time between the proton and the first eita, and between the first eita and the second eita in the above verse.

1 Timothy 2:13
For Adam was first formed, then (eîta) Eve.

There was a period of time between the protos and the eita in the above verse.

1 Corinthians 15:22-26
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit (aparchḗ), and afterward (épeita) they who are Christ's at His coming; then (eîta) is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power. for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet. The last enemy made to cease is death.

Not only is there a period of time implied between the first-fruit (aparchḗ) and the afterward (épeita) in 1 Corinthians 15:24, but there is a period of time not merely implied, but actually declared in Revelation 20 between the afterward (épeita) and the eita (then) in 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Namely, a thousand years between the coming of Christ and the destruction of death.

However, many saints choose to falsely claim scripture does not say what it says. Instead they change the meaning to comply with the false theology they believe in, flatly ignoring all scriptures that get in their way.

"But of this present time [nŷn] we see not yet all things put under him." Hebrews 2:8

If Jesus were to post the following into these boards, Amils would be arguing with Him for implying that until He returns He will not be reigning in this world:

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:

but of this present time [nŷn] is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36.

"And the seventh angel sounded. And there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ. And He will reign forever and ever." Revelation 11:15.

The Kingdom of Christ during this Age is IN the world. But the kingdoms of this world are not yet His kingdoms. He will take His seat in His Kingdom when He returns.

 

[Zao is life]

Why do you constantly duck around the inspired evidence presented in each discussion that proves Amil? Because your doctrine is exposed by the Book. You have no answer! That is why you always end up resorting to ad hominem. That is all you have. That is your greatest weapon.

Huh?

All your arguments are constantly being proved false and without basis. You're not talking about arguments made in support of Amil, surely?

I never duck around all the inspired evidence that prove Premil and that prove Amil to be false. That's your forte.

 

[Zao is life]

Amils do not deny that. But your millennium is the exact same. Premils have been misled into thinking their millennial age is some age of Aquarius, when in fact it possesses all the exact same bondage of corruption that our age has.

Please answer:

When you speak of "age of Aquarius" and falsely imply that it's what all Premils believe in, it shows you up for what your arguments are: lies like the above lie that you just told, falsely asserting Premils have been "misled into believing THE coming millennium is some sort of Aquarius".

You have already made it abundantly clear that you are not interested in Biblical answers or what the Bible is saying, so no, you disqualify yourself from asking anyone any questions that will have Biblical responses.

You however, need to answer all the many biblical flaws with what you say that myself and others show you, which you NEVER respond to without merely repeating your own false claims like a mantra.

 

[Zao is life]

You are wasting my time and the readers time because you have nothing to bring to the table. I rest my case!!!

Good. If you rest your case then you will stop talking to yourself as you did above again. It's only slightly amusing when you talk to yourself like that. But you actually just waste everyone's time.

 

[Randy Kluth]

1 Corinthians 15:22-26
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit (aparchḗ), and afterward (épeita) they who are Christ's at His coming; then (eîta) is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power. for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet. The last enemy made to cease is death.

Not only is there a period of time implied between the first-fruit (aparchḗ) and the afterward (épeita) in 1 Corinthians 15:24, but there is a period of time not merely implied, but actually declared in Revelation 20 between the afterward (épeita) and the eita (then) in 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Namely, a thousand years between the coming of Christ and the destruction of death.

Yes, as I replied to your other post on this, there is a distance of time from Christ, the first fruits of resurrection to the 2nd Coming of Christ, when the saints of the present age will be resurrected. That is when Death is defeated on behalf of the saints who have gone before.

But there is another period of time between the 2nd Coming and the judgment following the Millennium. The saints of the Millennial Age will have to be resurrected in the 2nd Resurrection in that judgment.

"And the seventh angel sounded. And there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ. And He will reign forever and ever." Revelation 11:15.

The Kingdom of Christ during this Age is IN the world. But the kingdoms of this world are not yet His kingdoms. He will take His seat in His Kingdom when He returns.

Amen.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is a good topic actually…..is there….

biblical proof that death is not abolished at the second coming?​

As one who likes to look at scripture in context and with the Bible’s overall narrative guiding the way, I see this question in a different light…..what kind of “death” is this speaking about….and why are humans programmed to go on living if death was inevitable? We see death as an “enemy”, not as something that makes us joyful. Who “wants” to die? We fight to live. Life is the most precious gift we have.

Understanding what death is, and why it happened in the first place is a useful starting point. Did God create humans to die of “natural causes?” If we look at the Genesis account, we see no “natural“ cause of death mentioned to Adam……death was a “penalty”, leading to the loss of one’s life. A “return to the dust” was what Adam was told to expect if he disobeyed God’s command. (Gen 3:19) The flip side of that is that his obedience would not result in death, confirmed by God’s words in Genesis 3:22-24….after the deed was done….what did this death penalty mean?

“Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.“

Taking a minute to absorb what was said….it was the devil who told the woman that she would become “like God” if she ate the fruit, and being thoroughly deceived, she fell for his lie, thereby sentencing herself to death…..but the woman was not Satan’s main target….he used her to bait her husband who now had an important decision to make…one that would either save the human race or condemn it to death. He chose to side with his disobedient wife and in turn lost everything that God had gifted to them in the garden…..evicted now, there was no access to the “tree of life”….the one thing that they needed to keep living in mortal flesh “forever”.

They lost more than their paradise home that day…..they lost everlasting life for themselves and all their children. So why did God not just destroy the rebels and start again? Because the first rebel was not human, Jehovah had to handle the situation so as to drive home the importance of obedience to all of his children, both in heaven and on earth…..so with a natural desire to go on living, humans have a hard time accepting something that was never meant to happen. It’s the reason why we grieve, sometimes for many years when we lose loved ones. There is no ‘program’ for death….it is an enemy.

This is what the Bible says is the “sin“ that Adam introduced into the human race. (Rom 5:12) The blame is put squarely on the man, because he was the one who could have said “no” to his disobedient wife and we would not have had to endure this sinful state causing us so much grief.

So in a nutshell, death was always in the background, because it was at first a penalty for disobedience.
It should never have been unleashed on mankind, but free willed beings are created ”in God’s image”, having his moral qualities and intelligence to make wise decisions. God will not interfere with our decisions, but will warn us of the consequences if we disobey him and he will not hesitate to carry them out.

Since the Creator always has our best interests at heart, we would have been able to count on him to guide us in the right way…..he has by his word given us sound direction on how to live even now in this less than perfect world with all its trials and tribulations.

But now we are confronted with a “second” kind of “death” that the Bible speaks about….linked to a “lake of fire” where anything that goes into this symbolic lake, never comes out.

So we have two kinds of “death”…one we inherited from Adam, which is not permanent…..and one that is controlled by God but is everlasting.

Jesus came to free us from the sin that causes physical death, inherited through no fault on our part, from Adam. That death will yield up its victims, in the resurrection that Jesus promised. (John 5:28-29) and death itself will be cast into the lake of fire along with “hades”, (Rev 20:13-14) which is simply the common grave of mankind……but the second death will never become redundant…..it remains forever as the place any future rebel can expect to end up…..in eternal death, which is the opposite of eternal life.
Unlike the first death inherited from Adam, the second death is caused by our own willful and deliberate actions.

Like Adam was when he was first created, there will be no sin to blame for any disobedience.
Once the human race has been brought back to its original sinless condition with no rebels around to lead us astray, life on planet Earth can become all that God intended at the beginning….nothing but wonderful!

 

[Davidpt]

. The saints of the Millennial Age will have to be resurrected in the 2nd Resurrection in that judgment.

Your view here makes no sense, based on all of the following in the remainder of this post. Only dead ppl need to be resurrected. Why would any saints die during the millennium to begin with? The only death I see is not involving the millennium but is involving satan's little season and that none of them could possibly be meaning saints.

IMO, the proper way to understand the first resurrection and the 2nd resurrection in Revelation 20 is like such. The first resurrection applies to all the saved, the 2nd resurrection applies to all of the unsaved. The text makes it clear that only those that have part in the first resurrection, that the 2nd death, IOW, the LOF, has no power over them. The text never says that is also true of anyone that doesn't live again until the thousand years are finished first, thus the 2nd resurrection.

And something else we need to factor in here, is this.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Obviously, He only does this once not multiple times. And that the text indicates that before He even arrives His reward is already with Him, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Obviously, to give every man according as his work shall be, is meaning in regards to what each person did in his or her lifetime before He comes, and not also what each person will do in the future after He comes.

Though, I'm Premil, this is one of these passages that appears to fit Amil better, and appears to not even fit Premil at all. Some argue that only the rewards of the righteous are meant here. Yet, the text clearly says every man rather than just some men but not others. Therefore, I disagree that that verse should be understood in that manner.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Your view here makes no sense, based on all of the following in the remainder of this post. Only dead ppl need to be resurrected. Why would any saints die during the millennium to begin with? The only death I see is not involving the millennium but is involving satan's little season and that none of them could possibly be meaning saints.

Put quite simply, your rejection of any Death during the Millennium is a denial of a Mortal Humanity during the Millennium. So I can see why my view makes "no sense" to you--it's simply because you reject the premise of a Mortal Humanity during the Millennium.

For my part, I see no proof that a literal Millennium, assuming there is such, consists only of glorified saints? So we're back to square one. You believe there are only glorified saints during the Millennium, and I believe there is a Mortal Humanity during the Millennium. Since this is highly speculative, determining whether or not there is a Millennium, and if there is, what is its constituency, none of us are likely to "make any sense!"

IMO, the proper way to understand the first resurrection and the 2nd resurrection in Revelation 20 is like such. The first resurrection applies to all the saved, the 2nd resurrection applies to all of the unsaved. The text makes it clear that only those that have part in the first resurrection, that the 2nd death, IOW, the LOF, has no power over them. The text never says that is also true of anyone that doesn't live again until the thousand years are finished first, thus the 2nd resurrection.

And something else we need to factor in here, is this.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Obviously, He only does this once not multiple times. And that the text indicates that before He even arrives His reward is already with Him, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Obviously, to give every man according as his work shall be, is meaning in regards to what each person did in his or her lifetime before He comes, and not also what each person will do in the future after He comes.

Well, good point, but that's the question, isn't it? Does the Millennium continues the present age without Satan or not? Is the Millennium a kind of "rerun" of the present age, only starting with Satan bound and later released? An argument from silence is a weak argument either way.

Though, I'm Premil, this is one of these passages that appears to fit Amil better, and appears to not even fit Premil at all. Some argue that only the rewards of the righteous are meant here. Yet, the text clearly says every man rather than just some men but not others. Therefore, I disagree that that verse should be understood in that manner.

You're entitled to believe what you will, brother. I'm just sharing my thoughts and opinions. You make a solid argument, but not a convincing one for me. There are loads of evidence that there is a Mortal Humanity during the Millennium who continue on as in the present age.

The consummation of the present age will be big and decisive. But how comprehensive will it be if people survive Armageddon and then are regathered as mortals, who have to decide whether they will cooperate and acknowledge the Kingdom of God has landed on the earth?

People may not live to 100 years old, or be blessed enough to live the age of a tree. Some among the nations may still not want to acknowledge the Feast of Tabernacles, acknowledging the Jews' legitimate inheritance of Palestine. Certainly, a 2nd Resurrection has not yet taken place after the 1st Resurrection happens. We all have to figure this out for ourselves.

 

[Timtofly]

But there is another period of time between the 2nd Coming and the judgment following the Millennium. The saints of the Millennial Age will have to be resurrected in the 2nd Resurrection in that judgment.

No one is going to naturally die in the Millennium. That is the entire point of Isaiah 65.

"And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands."

Shall long enjoy is implication of the Millennium and living the entire time.

The mention of death and sinners, cannot describe the NHNE. Yet many want Isaiah 65 to describe the NHNE.

The same reason that Revelation 20 cannot be describing Revelation 21.

The reason Death is that last enemy, is not necessarily because people can still die. In Revelation Death is called a place. In this case Death is similar to punishment or a prison. Disobedience is still a thing in the Millennium, but being a sinner is not. The last enemy is the punishment for Disobedience.

Think about Adam and the punishment God promised when Adam decided to disobey God. Adam did not disobey because he was born a sinner in a state of death like humans today. Adam did not disobey because Eve was deceived. Adam disobeyed God because he made a choice to do the one thing God told him not to do.

People in the Millennium will not be in a state of death nor deception. They will know the law from conception and live the law because that will be the easiest and normal thing to do. They will not be bound by death, and eventually die. They will be bound by obedience to their King, Jesus, until they make a decision to deliberately disobey Jesus.


Isaiah 65 implies only children will have difficulty. As they mature into adults by the age of 100 they will be set in their obedience to Jesus. If they disobey they will be removed from society and placed into Death, with no parol, but will end up in the LOF. It does not seem they just simply die and are buried. There would be some process by which one is handed over to the authorities and be considered cursed, and that is why there is a process of government and rule with Christ as priests.

Many even point to the group at the end consumed by fire in the sight of the entire world. The punishment of disobedience will not be chaos and loss of control. Punishment will not be a deterrence against disobedience. Punishment will be the means of not letting sin into the world like what happened to Adam and Eve who were allowed to live in sin and a state of death the rest of their physical lives.

The Millennium is not a time of conversion out of death into life. That was the last 2 millennia. The Day of the Lord is exactly what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15.

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

That was the original purpose of the sons of God in Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Jesus will accomplish on the earth while present on the earth, what Adam failed to do.

Not by converting dead sinners. It will be a thousand years of multiplying and filling the earth. The earth is full today, and yet 100% have not decided to accept the second birth. That can never be forced upon a human. After the Second Coming the opposite will be true. One will have to choose to deliberately disobey. All will have been made alive. Now the choice will be to disobey God.

This verse does not imply universalism:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Paul is not saying every last human are in Christ, even though they were from the foundation of the world. The point Paul was making has to include the fact that all who reject God will be removed from the Lamb's book of life by an obvious decision they made and not that God forces them out of redemption. Thus one will be able to decide to be removed.

Nor are all humans instantly destroyed at the Second Coming per Amil theory. Paul has always pointed out that now, prior to the Second Coming, is when humans need to make that decision. Not when they are physically standing before a physical Jesus in judgment.

Pre-mill are wrong in stating the wicked get to keep living on earth after the Second Coming. Adam's punishment has ended at the Second Coming, per John when time has been declared up, in Revelation 10. Now evey human must decide for themselves to disobey, no longer part of Adam's punishment. One's own choice will lead to death, the last enemy.

 

[Keraz]

Pre-mill are wrong in stating the wicked get to keep living on earth after the Second Coming.

Only those people who have proved their Faith and trusted the Lord thru all that must happen until Jesus Returns, will go with Jesus into the Millennium. They are all mortal peoples, albeit in a world similar to pre Flood conditions, where they did live hundreds of years.

Satan will be locked away, so he won't be tempting people to sin, however some may fail in their duties and obligations to Jesus and will be punished, as we see in Zechariah 14:16-21
When Satan is released, for a short time, then he will seduce many and they will form a huge army to attack Jesus and His faithful people, in Jerusalem. They will be incinerated, but their souls will stand before God, along with everyone who has ever lived. Their names will not be found in the Book of Life, so they and all the godless sinners, will be annihilated in the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:11-15

ONLY then, will those whose names are found in the Book of Life; receive immortality.

 

[Truth7t7]

1 Timothy 3:10
And let these also first (prōton) be proved; then (eîta) let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

There's a period of time appointed between the proton and the eita in the above verse.

Mark 4:17
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward (eîta), when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended."

There's a period of time between the proton and the eita in the above verse.

Mark 4:28
For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first (prōton) the blade, then (eîta) the ear, after that (eîta) the full corn in the ear."

There's a period of time between the proton and the first eita, and between the first eita and the second eita in the above verse.

1 Timothy 2:13
For Adam was first formed, then (eîta) Eve.

There was a period of time between the protos and the eita in the above verse.

1 Corinthians 15:22-26
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit (aparchḗ), and afterward (épeita) they who are Christ's at His coming; then (eîta) is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power. for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet. The last enemy made to cease is death.

Not only is there a period of time implied between the first-fruit (aparchḗ) and the afterward (épeita) in 1 Corinthians 15:24, but there is a period of time not merely implied, but actually declared in Revelation 20 between the afterward (épeita) and the eita (then) in 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Namely, a thousand years between the coming of Christ and the destruction of death.

However, many saints choose to falsely claim scripture does not say what it says. Instead they change the meaning to comply with the false theology they believe in, flatly ignoring all scriptures that get in their way.

"But of this present time [nŷn] we see not yet all things put under him." Hebrews 2:8

If Jesus were to post the following into these boards, Amils would be arguing with Him for implying that until He returns He will not be reigning in this world:

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:

but of this present time [nŷn] is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36.

"And the seventh angel sounded. And there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ. And He will reign forever and ever." Revelation 11:15.

The Kingdom of Christ during this Age is IN the world. But the kingdoms of this world are not yet His kingdoms. He will take His seat in His Kingdom when He returns.

A plain fact that (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory) at the Lord's return

The complete chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 is dedicated to the second coming and resurrection, at this time the (Last Enemy Death) is destroyed (The End)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

When Jesus Christ returns as seen in verse 23 above, the resurrection takes place, in verse 52 below it gives a "Detailed" description of how long this takes place (In The Twinkling Of An Eye) in verse 54 below in "Detail" it shows the (Last Enemy Death) is destroyed (The End)

When Jesus returns the resurrection takes place in the twinkling of an eye, when the last enemy death is destroyed (The End) its that simple, why do you resist the simple words of God's truth before your eyes?

1 Corinthians 15:51-54KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Zao is life]

A plain fact that (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory) at the Lord's return

The complete chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 is dedicated to the second coming and resurrection, at this time the (Last Enemy Death) is destroyed (The End)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

See the OP in this thread. The meaning of the word "then" (epeita) in the other verses I quoted.

Revelation 20 tells you when death will be destroyed - at the close of a thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-6 tells you when that thousand years will commence.

You may not believe what it says but it says it, nevertheless.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

What does "those who are Christ's at His coming" mean?

What does Revelation 20:5-6 say about them?

 

[WPM]

See the OP in this thread. The meaning of the word "then" (epeita) in the other verses I quoted.

Revelation 20 tells you when death will be destroyed - at the close of a thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-6 tells you when that thousand years will commence.

You may not believe what it says but it says it, nevertheless.

What does "those who are Christ's at His coming" mean?

What does Revelation 20:5-6 say about them?

You prove my thesis: you interpret every Scripture through the lens of your mistaken view of Rev 20. That is your misguided obsession. Amils prefers what Paul the apostle in their hermeneutics: "what saith the Scripture?" (Rom 4:3). They interpret the highly-debated Rev 20 by the rest of Scripture. If you do that you will see that we are there now.

 

[Zao is life]

You prove my thesis: you interpret every Scripture through the lens of your mistaken view of Rev 20.

You don't address any points or scriptures made in the posts you reply to. You only offer opinions like the above.

It's a waste of time talking to someone who does not even stick to scripture but goes off at his own tangent all the time, listing his thousand opinions about what others believe and "why" in his (unqualified) opinion they believe it, and often misrepresenting them.

As you have just done in the above post again.

Let me know when you have something of substance to offer regarding your opinions regarding the actual scriptures brought up by posters you are quoting, instead of merely stating your own opinions about why others believe as they do.

 

[Truth7t7]

See the OP in this thread. The meaning of the word "then" (epeita) in the other verses I quoted.

Revelation 20 tells you when death will be destroyed - at the close of a thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-6 tells you when that thousand years will commence.

You may not believe what it says but it says it, nevertheless.

What does "those who are Christ's at His coming" mean?

What does Revelation 20:5-6 say about them?

Once Again​

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No one is going to naturally die in the Millennium. That is the entire point of Isaiah 65.

"And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands."

Shall long enjoy is implication of the Millennium and living the entire time.

The mention of death and sinners, cannot describe the NHNE. Yet many want Isaiah 65 to describe the NHNE.

Yes, I do see at least part of Isa 65 as descriptive of the Millennial Age. And I do *not* see "long enjoyment" as immortality.

The same reason that Revelation 20 cannot be describing Revelation 21.

I agree that Rev 20 is not describing Rev 21, though so much of this is speculative to me. I wish things were more definitive, but they aren't--at least not yet.

The reason Death is that last enemy, is not necessarily because people can still die. In Revelation Death is called a place. In this case Death is similar to punishment or a prison. Disobedience is still a thing in the Millennium, but being a sinner is not. The last enemy is the punishment for Disobedience.

Well, "Death" is being personified, but it is not really a "place." It is a condition. I see Death being defeated at Christ's Coming not because people will stop dying, but only because *some,* namely the Church of the present age, will finally be resurrected into new immortal bodies that cannot die. This is the 1st occasion in which Christians have completely defeated death.

But it says nothing about the continuation of death among those who are not resurrected or caught up at the 2nd Coming. It says nothing about non-Christians who survive Armageddon.

I would assume that if Mortal Humanity continues after the 2nd Coming that they also will have to die, and be resurrected. In fact, the 1st Resurrection, which happens at the 2nd Coming, implies that there will be a 2nd Resurrection after the Millennium. And this means people will still be dying during the Millennium.

People in the Millennium will not be in a state of death nor deception.

I'm not sure that's true at all. While it is true that Satan and his deceptions will be bound, nothing is said to indicate people can't be deceived by their own wishful thinking? If Sinful Humanity continues, human deceptions continue, as well.

Many even point to the group at the end consumed by fire in the sight of the entire world. The punishment of disobedience will not be chaos and loss of control. Punishment will not be a deterrence against disobedience. Punishment will be the means of not letting sin into the world like what happened to Adam and Eve who were allowed to live in sin and a state of death the rest of their physical lives.

No, I think that if there is a Millennium, there will be Sinful, Mortal Humanity with deceptions and death. This is why there is a rebellion at the end of the Millennium. It is not just because Satan is freed to encourage sin, but largely because sin had never really gone away, and was just awaiting greater encouragement to rebel against God.

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

That's true. The Kingdom of God at the 2nd Coming will cause the earth to derive its peace from acknowledgment of Christian truth. Though the whole world may acknowledge such, it is another thing for the whole world to obey it. A lack of rebellion against the Kingdom of God does not suggest complete conformity to it.

That was the original purpose of the sons of God in Genesis 1:28

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Jesus will accomplish on the earth while present on the earth, what Adam failed to do.

Christian kingdoms have conquered countries, and have turned them into Christian countries. But later on, these countries turned against colonialism and returned to pagan religions or antiChristian religions. Forcing them to submit and obtaining loving obedience are two separate matters.

Not by converting dead sinners. It will be a thousand years of multiplying and filling the earth. The earth is full today, and yet 100% have not decided to accept the second birth. That can never be forced upon a human. After the Second Coming the opposite will be true. One will have to choose to deliberately disobey. All will have been made alive. Now the choice will be to disobey God.

I don't claim to understand the Why of the Millennial Age. It is something to speculate on.

Nor are all humans instantly destroyed at the Second Coming per Amil theory. Paul has always pointed out that now, prior to the Second Coming, is when humans need to make that decision. Not when they are physically standing before a physical Jesus in judgment.

The problem I have with this is that you seem to make it appear that people in the present age are being judged in their deception while those in the Millennium are judged without deception? How on earth can God apply a 2-tiered system of justice like this, considering it important that people know what they're doing and yet judge them after acknowledging they really don't know what they're doing?

Pre-mill are wrong in stating the wicked get to keep living on earth after the Second Coming. Adam's punishment has ended at the Second Coming, per John when time has been declared up, in Revelation 10. Now evey human must decide for themselves to disobey, no longer part of Adam's punishment. One's own choice will lead to death, the last enemy.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Zao is life]

Once Again​

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who are the rest of the dead?

When did the thousand years begin?

What year were you born?

Will you live for the same length of time as the symbolic thousand years?

When did the beast ascend from the abyss and cause you to be beheaded?

 

[Truth7t7]

Who are the rest of the dead?

When did the thousand years begin?

What year were you born?

Will you live for the same length of time as the symbolic thousand years?

When did the beast ascend from the abyss and cause you to be beheaded?

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Zao is life]

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

That's a long commentary of texts based on your interpretations of the texts.

But you never answered the questions again. Here are the questions again:

When does Revelation 20:9 say the fire will come down - if you quote only the text? At the beginning of, or the close of the thousand years? If you quote only the text?

When does the thousand years commence according to Revelation 20:4-6 - before the beast ascended from the abyss, or after the beast ascended from the abyss - if you quote only the text and not what you think the text "means"?

They are simple questions. Why can't you answer them without giving a commentary based on your opinions of what the texts mean?

 

[marks]

The Kingdom of Christ during this Age is IN the world. But the kingdoms of this world are not yet His kingdoms. He will take His seat in His Kingdom when He returns.

Great point, great post! I quite agree with you.

Much love!