Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.

[Nancy]

Absolutely, and I appreciate it! I make mistakes all the time, and try to go back and fix. If you only knew how unbelievably bad my mistakes are sometimes! Well, I guess I just did. I noticed that I also said, in the same sentence, that the Son originated from the *originated* Father? ;)

I had to changed that too! What I meant to say (in my head) was that the Spirit is the activity of God, extending outwards from the *unoriginated, unbegotten* God so that God appears in a variety of places so that we can see God work in our finite universe.

I was reading some of the early Church Fathers today as they described the Trinity. One of them used this term "unoriginated" to expose how the Arians tried to distinguish between the unoriginated God and the originated Son. The Arians wanted to remove the deity from Christ, while making only the Father divine. Jesus was in effect *created,* whereas God Himself was not.

This is best understood in the words of Origen, that the Word of God is generated from eternity such that the Word itself co-exists with the Father, and they are both eternal. But the Word descends out of eternity and into the finite realm of the created universe so that we can see God in our world.

The Word is thus both eternal God and His revelation within our world, where we can experience and see Him. As such, the Word also became flesh so that we could see God as a man.

Sorry, it's just a subject I love.... ;)

Hi Randy,
"I also said, in the same sentence, that the Son originated from the *originated* Father? ;) " <---yikes, how did I not catch that one! And, don't we all make typos? Mistakes?

"If you only knew how unbelievably bad my mistakes are sometimes!" <---Sorry can't help this but, one time when I went to my boss to tell her I had made a stupid mistake, she said "Nancy, there are no smart mistakes" Never forgot that...lol.
Yours and my thoughts on the Trinity do line up pretty well, it just makes sense.
Amen. When God 'speaks' Jesus DOES what God speaks and the Holy Spirit moves but, not until He speaks it...ever wonder why "even the Son doesn't know the day or the hour"? Maybe because God did not 'speak' it yet? Interesting subject...and much debated!
God Bless!

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Randy,
"I also said, in the same sentence, that the Son originated from the *originated* Father? ;) " <---yikes, how did I not catch that one! And, don't we all make typos? Mistakes?

"If you only knew how unbelievably bad my mistakes are sometimes!" <---Sorry can't help this but, one time when I went to my boss to tell her I had made a stupid mistake, she said "Nancy, there are no smart mistakes" Never forgot that...lol.
Yours and my thoughts on the Trinity do line up pretty well, it just makes sense.
Amen. When God 'speaks' Jesus DOES what God speaks and the Holy Spirit moves but, not until He speaks it...ever wonder why "even the Son doesn't know the day or the hour"? Maybe because God did not 'speak' it yet? Interesting subject...and much debated!
God Bless!

Well there is an interesting post coming when the time is right that will explain all this, might need a lawyer as it is all about legalities.. even wonder why, the devil whom stood before God and accused man, and who was Gods top angel , never asked Jesus if HE was God, since He knew God, but questioned Him as to wheter He was the Son of God.

 

[Truther]

We know that Jesus is the Word of God and therefore the Holy Spirit of God. The Spirit of God is the personality, wisdom and power of God, it was not created it was the creater.

EVERYTHING was created through the Word, and without the Word NOTHING was created that is created.

What is the Word?

Through the Word of YHWH the heavens were made, and all their host through the SPIRIT of his mouth, for he SPOKE and it was.

Who came to Mary and became flesh?

The Holy SPIRIT will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore also the Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

What was mentioned before creation?

and the SPIRIT of God was hovering over the waters. And God SPOKE:...

The Word of God is the Spirit of God, it is not another separated person, it is God himself.

All it is saying is that the word of God which everything is made by, made a sperm cell to mate with Mary's egg and made Jesus from it.

Our brains only see Jesus' beginnings as a full grown man(flesh), but verse 14 is speaking of a microscopic making of a man.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

It shouldn't matter what any council of men or a man has said about Jesus nature, the only reliable source of religious truth is the Bible. This Word reveals that Jesus is God’s Son and not as God. Jesus himself said: “I am God’s Son.” To Mary the angel Gabriel said: “What is born will be called holy, God’s Son.” Nothing is said of a God-man or a man-God. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus called a “God-man” or “God incarnate.” I believe such assumptions are strictly human illusions tainted with paganism.—John 10:36; Luke 1:34, 35; 2:21.

 

[Truther]

It shouldn't matter what any council of men or a man has said about Jesus nature, the only reliable source of religious truth is the Bible. This Word reveals that Jesus is God’s Son and not as God. Jesus himself said: “I am God’s Son.” To Mary the angel Gabriel said: “What is born will be called holy, God’s Son.” Nothing is said of a God-man or a man-God. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus called a “God-man” or “God incarnate.” I believe such assumptions are strictly human illusions tainted with paganism.—John 10:36; Luke 1:34, 35; 2:21.

You are correct, however, Jesus was made God after his God resurrected him via the Col 2:9 effect on his spirit body.

So this is how Jesus is God to us today(God reigning over us THROUGH the body of His son).

God does everything through His son now, and we respond to God through His son.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP, first you're on the right track, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, but one just have the breaks on. J77, you mention the ECHAD of God. well, correct but do one really understand what the "ECHAD" of God means? Barny Bright, do you know what the term "Son" really means when it come to the Spirit of God.

God is a Spirit, but what kind of Spirt?... a diversified Spirit. let's see Jesus as the Holy Ghost/Spirit.

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

question, "How did JESUS come to them? answer, lets follow the conversatatioin right here in John chapter 14 and see for ourselves. NEXT VERSE, John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also."
John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." (Hold it, listen to what the Lord Jesus said, he "will manifest myself to him". (HOLD THAT THOUGHT, JESUS said that he would MANIFEST HIMSELF, not themselves).
John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

Judas Just asked the billion dollar question, "how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us" notice he said "MANIFEST", he, the Lord Jesus Manifested to them on the Day of Pentecost, by the way of the Spiritual Gifts. can we back this "Manifestation" up?, yes,

1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." BINGO, there is the Manifestation of JESUS as Spirit. he MANIFESTED in the GIFTS. which are listed below. and one of the Gifts that he MANIFESTED in on of the day of Pentecost is the speaking in tongues, and the interpretation of tongues GIFT. which is listen in verse 10 below.
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:9 "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"
1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

BINGO, this is what happen on the day of Pentecost, the speaking in tongues.

NOW to see it again in the Spiritual Gifts, 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom", Jesus is WISDOM, supportive Scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."

GOD is WISDOM, and JESUS is that WISDOM. who is God, and he "Manifested" GIFT to them on the day of Pentecost, in the Spiritual Gifts, who is the HOLY SPIRIT...

BINGO. how plain can one get.

PICJAG.

 

[DPMartin]

You missed the point entirely.
The post you made said "it's not hard"

but it is not a matter of if it is that hard or not to understand -
revelation of truth ,
revelation from God in heaven,
is needed just like was needed by Simon barjona to know that Jesus is Messiah,
same as is needed for any man to know anything, as written...

as for "intellectual" , Jesus said the opposite , right ? PRAISE GOD HE REVEALS TO INFANTS, the truth, and HIDES IT FROM the educated ones....

Finally, what you post is not what the point, nor the question was nor what it is.
THose things wrong, must be learned by revelation from God.
Those things truth, must be learned by revealtion from God.
Nothing is accepted unless learned/ proven truth, in line with Scripture (Berean's Way to test) ....

you did read the posting did you I said that revelation by God at God's will is presumed. WOW


also its no great revelation to understand that living things are, have presence and express themselves in their presence. and all three is who and what they are to anything not them. no AAAAAAAAAAAH visions required there, is there?

 

[Nancy]

Well there is an interesting post coming when the time is right that will explain all this, might need a lawyer as it is all about legalities.. even wonder why, the devil whom stood before God and accused man, and who was Gods top angel , never asked Jesus if HE was God, since He knew God, but questioned Him as to wheter He was the Son of God.

It shouldn't matter what any council of men or a man has said about Jesus nature, the only reliable source of religious truth is the Bible. This Word reveals that Jesus is God’s Son and not as God. Jesus himself said: “I am God’s Son.” To Mary the angel Gabriel said: “What is born will be called holy, God’s Son.” Nothing is said of a God-man or a man-God. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus called a “God-man” or “God incarnate.” I believe such assumptions are strictly human illusions tainted with paganism.—John 10:36; Luke 1:34, 35; 2:21.

Hi Barney,
This is a 2 minute video that has the Gospel woven right into the genealogies from Adam to Noah....very very interesting. It's only 2 minutes long if you want to take the time :)

 

[Joseph77]

you did read the posting did you I said that revelation by God at God's will is presumed. WOW


also its no great revelation to understand that living things are, have presence and express themselves in their presence. and all three is who and what they are to anything not them. no AAAAAAAAAAAH visions required there, is there?

It's not visions -
necessarily that is -
it could be -
but no one knows Jesus is Messiah UNLESS the Father Grants it From Heaven to them. No one.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hi Randy,
"I also said, in the same sentence, that the Son originated from the *originated* Father? ;) " <---yikes, how did I not catch that one! And, don't we all make typos? Mistakes?

"If you only knew how unbelievably bad my mistakes are sometimes!" <---Sorry can't help this but, one time when I went to my boss to tell her I had made a stupid mistake, she said "Nancy, there are no smart mistakes" Never forgot that...lol.
Yours and my thoughts on the Trinity do line up pretty well, it just makes sense.
Amen. When God 'speaks' Jesus DOES what God speaks and the Holy Spirit moves but, not until He speaks it...ever wonder why "even the Son doesn't know the day or the hour"? Maybe because God did not 'speak' it yet? Interesting subject...and much debated!
God Bless!

Yes, I've thought about what the Son knows and doesn't know. Since he is Deity condensed, by the Word of God, into humanity he only knows what God determines that he as man should know.

I completely agree with your sense that it is *God's Word* that determines what men should know generally, and what the Son of God should know. Even though he was "God in the flesh," he was "God's *Word* in the flesh," indicating that his Deity was being expressed *by the will of God.*

And it was God's will to express Himself in the form of man, who obviously cannot know all that a transcendent God knows. Not only so, but part of Jesus' redemptive mission apparently involved him not knowing the time of his return. As our example he did not want us to focus on prognosticating about "times and seasons," but rather, looking at God's Word today, speaking to our hearts, and informing us how we should live and what our ministry is.

In a nutshell, the Trinity means that God and His Word co-existed in eternity, but the Word expresses God's will within the created universe and even taking the form of the created universe in Christ. Christ, being a created form, nevertheless issues from the eternal Word of God and perfectly conformed to what that Word of God was in eternity. It was therefore both a new Word and an old Word! :)

Thanks for your kind spirit! We all need grace.

 

[Cooper]

Just keep your mind open on this. The Trinity is a noble object of research and study. But I would warn you that Modalism is not orthodox Christian teaching. The idea that the Father is the Son, the Son is the Spirit, and the Spirit is the Father is Modalism, a doctrinal heresy.

The Trinitarian formula was established in the early centuries of the Christian Church because some began to confuse the persons of the Trinity, leading to confusion. To say the Son is the Spirit is confusing. Jesus was a man. The Spirit was not a man.

They are presented as three separate persons in the Scriptures for a reason. They are all one God, of one divine substance. But each of the three have their own separate "personalities," if you will. They have their own *distinctions" as distinct personalities.

I like to think of the Father as the "unbegotten Deity, who originates his eternal Word." The Son I like to think of as the Word made flesh, originating from the unoriginated Father and yet appearing in flesh for our fellowship and for our salvation. I like to think of the Spirit as the activity of God originating from the unoriginated Father, appearing in any place God wishes to reveal His activity.

If we confuse these different operations of the one God we will have trouble seeing the way God relates to us. He fellowships with us as the unbegotten God, shows us His person in the human Christ, and lives in us and works through us by His Spirit.

Since all three persons are God, they all contribute to this operation among men. But each person has his own function, which should not be confused. For example, the Father did not die on the cross, and the Spirit did not die on the cross--only Jesus did.

Both the Father and the Spirit were involved in this. The Father originated Jesus, as His word made flesh, and inspired Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. The Spirit was in Jesus identifying him as God and leading him to obey God the Father. I hope you'll try to understand, and let go of Modalism?

This is modalism.

What is a Modalism view of God? Think of a being that can “morph” or “shape shift” from one form into another. There is only one being at any one time. Modalism views God as a being that has three different forms. Sometimes God exists in the “form” the “Father”, sometimes the “Son”, sometime the “Holy Spirit”, BUT NEVER ALL THREE AT THE SAME TIME.

The essential difference between Modalism and the Biblical trinity, is that
in Modalism, the three members of the Godhood never exist at the same time and

in the Trinity, they always co-exist at the same time.

The dangerous doctrine of Modalism - Stand Up For The Truth

 

[Nancy]

Yes, I've thought about what the Son knows and doesn't know. Since he is Deity condensed, by the Word of God, into humanity he only knows what God determines that he as man should know.

I completely agree with your sense that it is *God's Word* that determines what men should know generally, and what the Son of God should know. Even though he was "God in the flesh," he was "God's *Word* in the flesh," indicating that his Deity was being expressed *by the will of God.*

And it was God's will to express Himself in the form of man, who obviously cannot know all that a transcendent God knows. Not only so, but part of Jesus' redemptive mission apparently involved him not knowing the time of his return. As our example he did not want us to focus on prognosticating about "times and seasons," but rather, looking at God's Word today, speaking to our hearts, and informing us how we should live and what our ministry is.

In a nutshell, the Trinity means that God and His Word co-existed in eternity, but the Word expresses God's will within the created universe and even taking the form of the created universe in Christ. Christ, being a created form, nevertheless issues from the eternal Word of God and perfectly conformed to what that Word of God was in eternity. It was therefore both a new Word and an old Word! :)

Thanks for your kind spirit! We all need grace.

WORD!

 

[101G]

The Father descended to become a Man (Isaiah 9:6).
It was not a 2nd God; and neither was it 1/3 of God, who descended.
This is not to say that there are no distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

Well what's the distinctions between the members of the Trinity?

The Father is a Spirit who inhabiteth eternity. The Son dwells in human flesh. The Holy Ghost is a Spirit who also inhabits eternity; but He has experiential knowledge of what it means to be human and is therefore the perfect intercessor. He also indwells us as the saints and is the Father.

If you ask me, I can prove all of this by holy scripture.

ok, post your holy scriptures that support what you said above.

PICJAG.

 

[aspen]

The proof of Jesus being God is our faith manifested as love.

 

[101G]

The proof of Jesus being God is our faith manifested as love.

Amen, for God is Love.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well what's the distinctions between the members of the Trinity?


ok, post your holy scriptures that support what you said above.

PICJAG.

Already did.

post #20 (Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.)

 

[101G]

This is a quote from your post #20.

The Father is a Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

thanks for the reply, this right here nullify your trinity. supportive scripture, 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Now this means only one thing. either 1 Timothy 6:16 lied, (God forbid), or Jesus is the same Person of (Isaiah 57:15). now take your Pick.

see how easy it is to disprove a trinity.

if Jesus is the ONLY one with IMMORATILITY, which means, the ability to live forever; eternal life, and he's the "ONLY" one with it, either Jesus is the Father, or as said you must have to take 1 Timothy 6:16 to be a lie. so, can you explain, or reconcile 1 Timothy 6:16 and Isaiah 57:15 differently?. I'll be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is a quote from your post #20.

thanks for the reply, this right here nullify your trinity. supportive scripture, 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Now this means only one thing. either 1 Timothy 6:16 lied, (God forbid), or Jesus is the same Person of (Isaiah 57:15). now take your Pick.

see how easy it is to disprove a trinity.

if Jesus is the ONLY one with IMMORATILITY, which means, the ability to live forever; eternal life, and he's the "ONLY" one with it, either Jesus is the Father, or as said you must have to take 1 Timothy 6:16 to be a lie. so, can you explain, or reconcile 1 Timothy 6:16 and Isaiah 57:15 differently?. I'll be looking for your answer.

PICJAG.

Hey @101G,

Do you remember me?

I'm the one who normally emphasizes the Oneness of the Lord in my preaching.

Therefore I do not deny that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one Person; when I say that there are distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

 

[101G]

Hey @101G,

Do you remember me?

I'm the one who normally emphasizes the Oneness of the Lord in my preaching.

Therefore I do not deny that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one Person; when I say that there are distinctions between the members of the Trinity.

(smile), I remember you, but what are the distinctions, beside 1 Corinthians 12:4-6?

PICJAG

 

[justbyfaith]

That the Son is come in human flesh; while the Father is a Spirit that resides in eternity.

The Holy Ghost (a Spirit) has lived a human life while the Father has not yet lived the life of Jesus.

But they are indeed the same Person, the same Spirit, the same Lord, the same God.

For there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).