Is apostolic succession biblical?

[BreadOfLife]

On the first day of "Statistics Class", the professor's OPENING Statement was: "Statistics Don't Lie, But Liars Statist". And YOU, @BreadOfLife are whom he was referring to!

First of all, statistics identify Catholics versus Non-Catholics -- which can include any non-affiliated churches. Thus the ACCURATE statistic is closer to:

... 48.9% of Americans identify themselves as some version of Protestantisim, whereas 23% identify themselves as being Catholic ...
https: // stopabusecampaign.org/​

So the statistic showing ABUSE:

... about 260 reports of sexual abuse per year from Protestant churches, and about 228 from Catholic churches.
IBID​

... which is a ratio of 30.89 for Protestant versus 52.44 for Catholic, which calculates to 70% MORE ABUSE in the Catholic Church. And this makes sense in that "Priests" are supposed to be "celibate" when that's neither GOD's plan for mankind, and certainly not under the constraint of the Early Church. And it maybe beneficial for the Ministry to have an unencumbered Servant, ESPECIALLY when SOME Ministers sacrifice the needs of the FAMILY for the needs of the Church -- whose action is WORSE than an INFIDEL. Because THE FAMILY MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST.

-- But it's my experience that you, (@BreadOfLife), are MORE INTERESTED in defending your religion than the TRUTH! :)
Bobby Jo

According to the book, Pedophiles and Priests by Protestant author, Philip Jenkins - it's not that cases of abuse were overly abundant in Catholic parishes vs. Protestant churches. It was a case of MONEY. The cases of abuse in Protestant churches were under-reported because there was just NO MONEY in it for the lawyers.

The perceived wealth of the Catholic Church is what spurred the flurry of news stories and court cases against Catholic priests. Conversely, many of the smaller Protestant churches and "storefront" congregations had little money - and almost ALWAYS had no insurance policies to go after.

Jenkins lays fact after fact and case after case to prove his point.

 

[Bobby Jo]

.

According to the book, Pedophiles and Priests by Protestant author, Philip Jenkins ...

It would seem to me that "stopabusecampaign.org" may be more objective than some unknown author with some unknown agenda.

Bobby Jo

 

[theefaith]

This proves the OFFICE held by Judas was vacant, and a successor was "numbered with the Eleven". Matthias was not chosen directly by Jesus Himself, Acts 1:26 proves the Church has the same authority as if Jesus was visibly present.

Amen I’m with you!

 

[BreadOfLife]

.


It would seem to me that "stopabusecampaign.org" may be more objective than some unknown author with some unknown agenda.

Bobby Jo

There are DOZENS of anti-abuse organizations out there.
Why is this particular one the "Gospel Truth" above ALL others?

As for Philip Jenkins' book, Pedophiles and Priests - he produces the facts fro the insurance companies, police agencies and the FBI. Besides - he's not Catholic and is not beholden to the Catholic Church.
Of course - you're free to cling to your anti-Catholic opinions - but I prefer facts . . .

 

[Bobby Jo]

There are DOZENS of anti-abuse organizations out there.
Why is this particular one ...

... because it provided Statistics which weren't beholden to ANY particular agenda ...

Bobby jo

 

[BreadOfLife]

... because it provided Statistics which weren't beholden to ANY particular agenda ...

Bobby jo

And neither are those recorded by Philip Jenkins in his book. He is STILL a Protestant.

And, as stated earlier - he explains that the absence of statistics was based NOT on lack of reporting of abuse cases in the Protestant churches - but the lack of insurance claims filed as compared to those in the Catholic church. MANY of the smaller Protestant churches are not insured.

THAT is where you find the difference in the numbers.

 

[Illuminator]

On the first day of "Statistics Class", the professor's OPENING Statement was: "Statistics Don't Lie, But Liars Statist". And YOU, @BreadOfLife are whom he was referring to!

First of all, statistics identify Catholics versus Non-Catholics -- which can include any non-affiliated churches. Thus the ACCURATE statistic is closer to:

... 48.9% of Americans identify themselves as some version of Protestantisim, whereas 23% identify themselves as being Catholic ...
https: // stopabusecampaign.org/​

So the statistic showing ABUSE:

... about 260 reports of sexual abuse per year from Protestant churches, and about 228 from Catholic churches.
IBID
​

... which is a ratio of 30.89 for Protestant versus 52.44 for Catholic, which calculates to 70% MORE ABUSE in the Catholic Church. And this makes sense in that "Priests" are supposed to be "celibate" when that's neither GOD's plan for mankind, and certainly not under the constraint of the Early Church. And it maybe beneficial for the Ministry to have an unencumbered Servant, ESPECIALLY when SOME Ministers sacrifice the needs of the FAMILY for the needs of the Church -- whose action is WORSE than an INFIDEL. Because THE FAMILY MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST.


-- But it's my experience that you, (@BreadOfLife), are MORE INTERESTED in defending your religion than the TRUTH! :)
Bobby Jo

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishop’ Secretariat of Child and Youth Protection has released its audit on clergy sexual abuse that covers the period July 1, 2018 – June 30, 2019.

During this time, there were 37 allegations made by current minors. Eight were substantiated, 7 were unsubstantiated, 6 were unable to be proven, 12 are still being investigated, 3 were referred to religious orders, and 1 was referred to another diocese.

Of the 49,972 members of the clergy (33,628 priests and 16,344 deacons), .07% (37) had an accusation made against them for abusing a minor. However, since only .016% (8) could be substantiated, that means that 99.98% of priests did not have a substantiated accusation made against them.

In other words, clergy sexual abuse is near 0%.

It is hardly surprising that the media are ignoring this story. The only stories about the Catholic Church that they see fit to print or air are those that put the Church in a negative light. That they wallow in dirt cannot be denied.

CLERGY SEXUAL ABUSE NEAR ZERO PERCENT

 

[Illuminator]

And neither are those recorded by Philip Jenkins in his book. He is STILL a Protestant.

And, as stated earlier - he explains that the absence of statistics was based NOT on lack of reporting of abuse cases in the Protestant churches - but the lack of insurance claims filed as compared to those in the Catholic church. MANY of the smaller Protestant churches are not insured.

THAT is where you find the difference in the numbers.

Steeple chasing lawyers don't bother with suing Protestant pastors because most of them don't have public liability insurance. There's no money in it.

 

[Illuminator]

On the first day of "Statistics Class", the professor's OPENING Statement was: "Statistics Don't Lie, But Liars Statist". And YOU, @BreadOfLife are whom he was referring to!

First of all, statistics identify Catholics versus Non-Catholics -- which can include any non-affiliated churches. Thus the ACCURATE statistic is closer to:

... 48.9% of Americans identify themselves as some version of Protestantisim, whereas 23% identify themselves as being Catholic ...
https: // stopabusecampaign.org/​

So the statistic showing ABUSE:

... about 260 reports of sexual abuse per year from Protestant churches, and about 228 from Catholic churches.
IBID
​

... which is a ratio of 30.89 for Protestant versus 52.44 for Catholic, which calculates to 70% MORE ABUSE in the Catholic Church. And this makes sense in that "Priests" are supposed to be "celibate" when that's neither GOD's plan for mankind, and certainly not under the constraint of the Early Church. And it maybe beneficial for the Ministry to have an unencumbered Servant, ESPECIALLY when SOME Ministers sacrifice the needs of the FAMILY for the needs of the Church -- whose action is WORSE than an INFIDEL. Because THE FAMILY MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST.

-- But it's my experience that you, (@BreadOfLife), are MORE INTERESTED in defending your religion than the TRUTH! :)
Bobby Jo

I've seen your "statistics" before. They are a compilation of cases going back to WWII. stopabusecampaign doesn't come clean with dates and sources, they are just blowing flatulence.

There are many in America who do hate the Catholic Church, primarily for certain of its teachings—on marriage and family, human sexuality, the sanctity of life—that conflict with the materialism and hedonism of our age. But here too, those who hate the Church are guilty of falsely caricaturing its teachings, practices and history,
in order to discredit its voice.

 

[Illuminator]

-- But it's my experience that you, (@BreadOfLife), are MORE INTERESTED in defending your religion than the TRUTH! :)
Bobby Jo

Sooo, you wanna play rough???

Abused In Mormonism - Sexual Abuse Survivors - Free Case Evaluation

The Mormon Church has been accused of using their sexual abuse hotline to quiet victims and stave off potential lawsuits

Mormon Church Sexual Abuse Lawsuits | AVA Law Group | Free Evaluation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...-church-after-revealing-husband-sexual-abuse/

Mormon abuse cases - Wikipedia

Protect Every Child

Where is any of this in your stopabusecampaign that you say doesn't have an agenda?

 

[Bobby Jo]

I've seen your "statistics" before. ...

They're not "my" statistics. I cited the source, which you may or may not agree with.

Bobby Jo

 

[Illuminator]

They're not "my" statistics. I cited the source, which you may or may not agree with.

Bobby Jo

You cited a deceiving source with an obvious anti-Catholic agenda. The sex abuse card you played backfired on you like it always does. It should be a banned topic.

Once again, THIS THREAD SHOULD BE CLOSED.

 

[Illuminator]

• No Flaming, Goading or Harassment. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.
• No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Christianity Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. (except Catholics)

A double standard if there ever was one.
THIS THREAD SHOULD BE CLOSED.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Per the following Post:

On the first day of "Statistics Class", the professor's OPENING Statement was: "Statistics Don't Lie, But Liars Statist". And YOU, @BreadOfLife are whom he was referring to!

First of all, statistics identify Catholics versus Non-Catholics -- which can include any non-affiliated churches. Thus the ACCURATE statistic is closer to:

... 48.9% of Americans identify themselves as some version of Protestantisim, whereas 23% identify themselves as being Catholic ...
https: // stopabusecampaign.org/​

So the statistic showing ABUSE:

... about 260 reports of sexual abuse per year from Protestant churches, and about 228 from Catholic churches.
IBID
​

... which is a ratio of 30.89 for Protestant versus 52.44 for Catholic, which calculates to 70% MORE ABUSE in the Catholic Church. And this makes sense in that "Priests" are supposed to be "celibate" when that's neither GOD's plan for mankind, and certainly not under the constraint of the Early Church. And it maybe beneficial for the Ministry to have an unencumbered Servant, ESPECIALLY when SOME Ministers sacrifice the needs of the FAMILY for the needs of the Church -- whose action is WORSE than an INFIDEL. Because THE FAMILY MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST.


-- But it's my experience that you, (@BreadOfLife), are MORE INTERESTED in defending your religion than the TRUTH! :)
Bobby Jo

​

... it seems that some take objection to the cited "sexual abuse report" figures. They assert that the "reports" are not accurate due to the premise that the VICTIM is seeking a LAWSUIT versus a REMEDY. And while there maybe be such circumstances, it may not be to the degree where the "70% MORE ABUSE" becomes ~"70% LESS ABUSE"~.

And lacking any further potential to validate or invalidate these numbers, we can only presume that they are unbiased regardless of the protestations. -- I.e., "thou doest protest too much".


Without an axe to grind or gloss! :)
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

You cited a biased deceiving source with an obvious anti-Catholic agenda. ...

Do you have substantiation, or simply an assertion?!? And if only an assertion, then are you hiding/protecting something?

https: // stopabusecampaign.org/ -- (with spaces added so a "page" doesn't populate the Post!)​

Bobby Jo

 

[Illuminator]

So, is it the Biblical-prescribed hierarchy that you have a problem with - or just the Catholic Church's practice of a hierarchy?

And, as for your comment n RED - are you prepared to prove that the Catholic church is "FILLED" will pedophiles - or that there was a problem with a very small percentage of priests?

Are you ALSO prepared to address the fact that the problem is FAR greater among Protestant leaders?
Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

Blogger Who Exposed Protestant Sex Abuse Cover Up Sued By Her Pastor

Denial About Sexual Abuse In Evangelical Churches

Southern Baptists Apologize For Sex Abuse Coverups

U.S. Protestants’ Views Mixed about Extent of Clergy Sexual Abuse

Churchgoers Split on Existence of More Sexual Abuse by Pastors

Confronting Evangelical Enabling of Sexual Abuse

IT SHOULD BE A BANNED TOPIC. THIS THREAD NEEDS TO CLOSE.

 

[Bobby Jo]

IT SHOULD BE A BANNED TOPIC. THIS THREAD NEEDS TO CLOSE.

YOU MADE AN ASSERTION that -- https: // stopabusecampaign.org/ -- (with spaces added so a "page" doesn't populate the Post!) -- has "an obvious anti-Catholic agenda", but won't provide any substantiation. All you want to do is KILL this discussion.

So you are either DISHONEST, or possibly HIDING SOMETHING you don't want exposed. -- Either "Man Up" and SUBSTANTIATE your assertion or admit that you have none.


Nothing to see, move along ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Illuminator]

Do you have substantiation, or simply an assertion?!? And if only an assertion, then are you hiding/protecting something?

https: // stopabusecampaign.org/ -- (with spaces added so a "page" doesn't populate the Post!)​

Bobby Jo

I don't deny, hide or protect anything. The sex abuse crisis was the worst most embarrassing crisis in the history of the Church. That was Scandal 1. Scandal 2 is pretending that nothing was done about it. stopabusecampaign is clearly UNFAIR in the light of the posts you want me to repeat. I already "substantiated" and I could post pages more of substantiations, I shouldn't have to. It's a stupid, useless, nowhere topic. What has your church done about it? Knock off the hypocrisy.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... What has your church done about it? Knock off the hypocrisy.

I've posted NUMEROUS TIMES about the DISHONESTY, SEXUAL ASSAULTS, and SEXUAL PERVERSION in the various churches I've attended, -- including TWO "Pastors" (actually "Hirelings") who LIED; TWO "Youth Pastors" who statutorily RAPED two young teen girls, one of which had just lost her mother to cancer and where that "Pastor" COVERED UP the SEXUAL ASSAULT; a "Pastor" who was hauled off for CHILD PORN; and ANOTHER "Pastor" who kicked out a Senior Member because HE FOLLOWED SCRIPTURE instead of the "Pastor's" FALSE Doctrine.

And thinking about it some more, one "Associate Pastor" weaseled an elderly church member's HOUSE from him as he lay dying.

THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF CRIMINALS (called "Hirelings") in the Church, IN ALL DENOMINATIONS! -- As I've stated, I HAVE NO AXE TO GRIND OR GLOSS. I only examine the best information available to arrive to a semblance of the TRUTH!

With Best Regards,
Bobby Jo

 

[lforrest]

IT SHOULD BE A BANNED TOPIC. THIS THREAD NEEDS TO CLOSE.

Even the perpetrators of abuse know they are doing evil. Nether are there people here establishing doctrines for new churches that would seriously consider celibacy as a requirement for priesthood. So there is no practical reason for this debate aside from besmirching the Catholic church.

Further, the attacks against Catholics are becoming bolder and it is time we cracked down on these attacks again. This thread is locked.