Is Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

[Selene]

Selene

[sup]12[/sup] For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil


NewGuy


Selene

Proverbs 28:9

He who turns away his ear from listening to the law,
Even his[sup] [/sup]prayer is an abomination.


NewGuy

NewGuy,

That biblical verse does not mean that God cannot see what the wicked is doing nor hear what they are saying. God knows all things because He can see and hear all things.

This biblical verse you quoted is simply saying that God watches over those who are righteous rather than those who are wicked and He will answer the prayers of the righteous rather than the wicked. That is all it is saying. But in no way is it saying that God cannot see nor hear the wicked. If God truely cannot see nor hear the wicked, then He is not very powerful is He? The God I know is so powerful that He can hear and see EVERYTHING and therefore know EVERYTHING.

Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do all things, and no thought is hid from thee.

Now, that I've answered your questions and even explained the biblical verse that you quoted, could you answer my question? Do you believe that God can only hear Christians? That is the question.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[John1]

Selene

That biblical verse does not mean that God cannot see what the wicked is doing nor hear what they are saying. God knows all things because He can see and hear all things.

Psalms 66:18 [sup][/sup]If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;



Isaiah 1:15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.

From the NewGuy

 

[Selene]

Selene




Psalms 66:18 [sup][/sup]If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;



Isaiah 1:15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.

From the NewGuy

My brother, Scripture clearly says the Lord would not have listened. It did not say the Lord CANNOT listen. God is not deaf. As I pointed out earlier, God would answer the prayers of the righteous rather than the wicked. That does not mean He cannot hear the prayers of the wicked.

Apparantly, the god you believe in is not so powerful, which is the reason why you chose not to answer my question. I know you CAN answer my question, but you chose not to. In the same way, God can hear the prayers of the wicked, but He chose not to listen to them. Do you now understand the difference between would and can?

Apparantly, the God I believe in is much more powerful than your god because my God CAN hear and see everything including ALL prayers. He can hear all prayers including the wicked. He just chose not to answer the prayers of the wicked.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Selene]

NewGuy, let me put it much simpler terms so that you can understand it better. I asked you a question. The question I asked you earlier is: Do you believe that God CAN ONLY hear the prayers of Christians?

You CAN answer that question, but you WOULD not answer it. Why? Because if you say "yes" to that question, it would only make God look very weak, unpowerful, and deaf. If you answered "no," it would only prove that I am correct.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[John1]

Selene

Do you believe that God CAN ONLY hear the prayers of Christians?

What I believe is that He choses to only hear the reayers of the Righteous.

NewGuy

 

[Selene]

Selene



What I believe is that He choses to only hear the reayers of the Righteous.

NewGuy

Thank you, NewGuy. That is what I've been saying all along. God choose to hear the prayers of the righteous rather than the wicked. The fact that He would hear the prayers of the righteous does not mean that He cannot hear the prayers of the wicked. God hears and sees everything and therefore knows everything including the hearts and thoughts of ALL people. God bless.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[John1]

Selene

Is it safe to assume that we agree that God does not hear the prayer of the sinner?

NewGuy

 

[Selene]

Selene

Is it safe to assume that we agree that God does not hear the prayer of the sinner?

NewGuy

Hello NewGuy,

We have never said that God cannot hear or does not hear because we know that God can and do hear everything. God never turns a blind eye or a deaf ear to our sins. He knows them all. The verses in the Bible is interpreted to mean that God listens to the prayers of the righteous and ignores the prayers of the wicked simply because the prayers of the wicked are self-serving and full of hatred.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[John1]

Selene

We have never said that God cannot hear or does not hear because we know that God can and do hear everything. God never turns a blind eye or a deaf ear to our sins. He knows them all. The verses in the Bible is interpreted to mean that God listens to the prayers of the righteous and ignores the prayers of the wicked simply because the prayers of the wicked are self-serving and full of hatred.

So this lead me back to an earlier thought. We know that God hears the prayer of the righteous and He chooses to not hear the prayer of those who are dead in sin. So how does one ask God for forgiveness if God doesn't listen to their prayer?

NewGuy

 

[bud02]

My brother, baptism did not come from me; therefore, I never made it the law of the New Testament. Baptism came from God. It was God who ordered baptism and ALL His Apostles baptized with water and spirit. Show me where in the Bible did it say that the Apostles DID NOT baptize with water?

I did but even in the boldest and largest print nether you or your girlfriends can see it.

Selene said, ALL His Apostles baptized with water and spirit.

John says Jesus will baptize you with the Spirit.
Do you really think that If you asked Peter or Paul they would tell you they baptized with the Spirit?
Jesus himself says, John 14:16-17
As you can see Selene the buck hardly stops at the Apostles, but that doesn't play well with the popes presumed authority does it?

[sup]17[/sup] ‘ And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
[sup]18[/sup] And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
[sup]19[/sup] I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
[sup]20[/sup] The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.
[sup]21[/sup] And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the LORD
Shall be saved.

John points to Jesus
Jesus points to the Father
And the Father points to Himself.

Show me where its says baptism is for the Gentiles. Acts 13:24


Acts 15
[sup]6[/sup] Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. [sup]7[/sup] And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. [sup]8[/sup] So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, [sup]9[/sup] and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. [sup]10[/sup] Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? [sup]11[/sup] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

[sup]
[/sup]

That right their is a baptism without water, the message of Jesus.[sup]
1[/sup] And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples [sup]2[/sup] he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
[sup]3[/sup] And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
[sup]4[/sup] Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
[sup]5[/sup] When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [sup]6[/sup] And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. [sup]7[/sup] Now the men were about twelve in all.

Now where does it say water here? Mt 28:19 Or is this the baptism I just showed you above?
The word this is not in the KJV but for sake of proper English it was added that's why its italicized. It reads When they heard, they were baptized. Acts 8:12 like I also said they are all Jews. In the strictest sense water baptism was for the Jews. Acts 13:24

Now Its not necessary for salvation, even for the Jews, as written in Acts 19

[sup]11[/sup] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

 

[Selene]

Selene



So this lead me back to an earlier thought. We know that God hears the prayer of the righteous and He chooses to not hear the prayer of those who are dead in sin. So how does one ask God for forgiveness if God doesn't listen to their prayer?

NewGuy

A person who repents is a person of righteousness because to repent of your sins is the right thing to do. God hears the prayers of ALL people, so if a sinner repents as he/she prays to God asking for forgiveness, God will know about it because He hears the prayers of ALL.

Luke 15: 7.....In the same way, I telll you, there will be more rejoicing in Heaven over one repentant sinner than over ninety-nine virtuous men who have no need of repentance.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[Selene]

I did but even in the boldest and largest print nether you or your girlfriends can see it.

My brother, I have always said that the Apostles baptized with BOTH water and spirit. I asked you to show me where in the Bible it says that the Apostles DID NOT baptize with water. You show me Scripture in Acts where they baptize with the Holy Spirit, but you ignore the scripture where they ALSO baptize with water, which is ALSO found in Acts. In other words, you are only looking at certain scriptures in Acts. I, on the other hand, see the entire book of Acts of the Apostles. And in the entire book of the Acts of the Apostles, they baptized in BOTH water and spirit.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[John1]

Selene

A person who repents is a person of righteousness

If God doesn't hear the prayer of the sinner then why would He acknowledge the repentance of the the sinner ?
If salvation is a gift then how does a person repent with it being a personal act?

NewGuy

 

[Selene]

Selene




If God doesn't hear the prayer of the sinner then why would He acknowledge the repentance of the the sinner ?
If salvation is a gift then how does a person repent with it being a personal act?

NewGuy

My brother, where in my post did I ever say that God does not hear? Look back in my post #68. I stated, "We have never said that God cannot hear or does not hear because we know that God can and do hear everything.

Salvation is indeed a gift, but where in the Bible does it say that you don't need to repent? Since when is God going to force a gift onto someone? A gift is freely given to those who accepts it. God has never forced anyone to accept the Holy Spirit. According to Sacred Scripture, St. Peter said, "repent, and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

In Christ,
Selene

 

[John1]

Selene


Salvation is indeed a gift, but where in the Bible does it say that you don't need to repented?

So now are you saying that God hears the prayer of the sinner?


God repented as well


NewGuy.

 

[Selene]

Selene


Salvation is indeed a gift, but where in the Bible does it say that you don't need to repented?

So now are you saying that God hears the prayer of the sinner?


God repented as well


NewGuy.

Hello NewGuy,

I have always said that God can and do hear all prayers, including the sinners. I have never changed in that stand, and anyone reading this thread between you and me already knows that. You believe that God can only hear the prayrs of the righteous. And now you are saying that God repented? :blink: That's a new one for me. I did not know that you believe that God repents. Therefore, based on this, I think that the god you believe in is not the same as the God I believe in. You must be worshipping a different god.

My brother, your god is deaf because he can't hear anything. On earth, we are all sinners including yourself; therefore, your god cannot hear anyone on earth. My God, on the other hand, can and do hear EVERYTHING. That's how powerful He is. He can hear all prayers....and I mean ALL prayers. Unlike your god, my God does not need to repent because He does not have any sins. I am sorry to say....but my God is much more powerful than your god because my God is neither blind nor deaf and my God has no sin.

In Christ,
Selene

 

[John1]

Selene

Thank you for the discussion

NewGuy

 

[Humbleman]

Nice copy paste job Humbleman. Why not just give the link.

http://www.bible.ca/...sm-answered.htm



Why I was just wondering myself, what is your position? in your own words please. LOL :lol:

My position is exactly in agreement with what Kenneth E. Thomas article said.


I'm not interested in what Kenneth E. Thomas has to say
From Expository Files 12.2; February 2005

 

[Selene]

Selene

Thank you for the discussion

NewGuy

You are most welcome. God bless.

In Christ,
Selene