Is believing/faith a work ?
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Let's just ponder your post, even your last paragraph's first sentence, in contrast to the prophet Jeremiah's words of "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9).
Even your thoughts contrasted against the Lord Jesus Christ's words "No one is good except God alone " (Mark 10:18), so the only state of being for people is evil.
Further exemplifing your heart's written antimony toward the Word of God is your ignorance of where He says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3); therefore, you cannot properly perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God unless God causes you to be born again. See here that a person not born again fails to perceive King Jesus in Righteousness, so the default condition of men is the state of evil - in other words - depraved (see Romans chapter 1).
Now, it's time to extend this post to address the roughly 5 segments of your post.
SEGMENT 1 of 5
Your heart adulterates Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) into the words of Ernest T. Bass "you of the office of an Apostle did not choose Me, but I chose you for the office of an Apostle only" (the heart of Ernest T. Bass), yet Jesus places no limitation upon the blessings that Jesus chooses for persons; therefore, you separate yourself from the blessings of the Prince of Peace's choosing for His chosen persons. Let's look at a specific example.
Lord Jesus says "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16), so Jesus includes being friends with Jesus the sole and exclusive dominion of choosing done by Jesus, yet your heart emphatically separates you from being a chosen friend of Jesus - even with the Word of God blessing the "you" mentioned in John 15:16 with wonderful friendship with the Risen Christ even extending this marvelous blessing upon all His chosen/elect persons in all time!
The Word of God is clear:
Christ defines and makes us Christians.
Your actions demonstrated above are not good.
Your heart adulterates Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) into the words of Ernest T. Bass "you of the office of an Apostle did not choose Me, but I chose you for the office of an Apostle only" (the heart of Ernest T. Bass), yet Jesus places no limitation upon the blessings that Jesus chooses for persons; therefore, you separate yourself from the blessings of the Prince of Peace's choosing for His chosen persons. Let's look at a specific example.
Lord Jesus says "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16), so Jesus includes being friends with Jesus the sole and exclusive dominion of choosing done by Jesus, yet your heart emphatically separates you from being a chosen friend of Jesus - even with the Word of God blessing the "you" mentioned in John 15:16 with wonderful friendship with the Risen Christ even extending this marvelous blessing upon all His chosen/elect persons in all time!
The Word of God is clear:
- "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
- "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
- "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
Christ defines and makes us Christians.
Your actions demonstrated above are not good.
SEGMENT 2 of 5
Commands result in fruit/deeds for a person, and only two exclusive results exist for commands, either obedience or disobedience; therefore, a born of God person bears successful obedience fruit of the Spirit of the Holy God (Galatians 5:22-23) or an unregenerate person born of the flesh does the disobedient deeds of the flesh thus not inheriting the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21); moreover, commands do not impart ability nor even imply ability - unless the impartation of ability is express in the command.
Commands show who is of who or what.
Men are accountable to God for man's sin against God (Romans 1:20, Romans 3:12).
Commands result in fruit/deeds for a person, and only two exclusive results exist for commands, either obedience or disobedience; therefore, a born of God person bears successful obedience fruit of the Spirit of the Holy God (Galatians 5:22-23) or an unregenerate person born of the flesh does the disobedient deeds of the flesh thus not inheriting the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21); moreover, commands do not impart ability nor even imply ability - unless the impartation of ability is express in the command.
Commands show who is of who or what.
Men are accountable to God for man's sin against God (Romans 1:20, Romans 3:12).
SEGMENT 3 of 5
The command and results show the fruit of the sons in the parable with Christian teaching recorded in Matthew 21:28-32.
Since you seem to have moved onto repentance, then we must see scripturally who causes repentance in people.
Repentance Defined
Repent: think differently afterwards
Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).
As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".
Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!
NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".
That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!
The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.
The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).
Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!
BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)
See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.
BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)
Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.
God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!
Return to main essay "Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor"
The command and results show the fruit of the sons in the parable with Christian teaching recorded in Matthew 21:28-32.
Since you seem to have moved onto repentance, then we must see scripturally who causes repentance in people.
Repentance Defined
THESE THREE QUESTIONS GET ANSWERED
- What is repentance?
- Who controls repentance?
- How does a person repent?
LINGUISTIC DEFiNITION
Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".Repent: think differently afterwards
The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.
Godly sorrow brings "thinking differently afterward" leading to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10, so God's power generates this sorrow within the believers hence God calls it "Godly sorrow" thus illuminating and magnifying sin (Romans 5:20).
FIRST BIBLICAL CiTATION FOR REPENTANCE - A DEEP EXAMINATION
Here is the Christian teaching of 2 Corinthians 7:8-10. The passage (from the NASB which explicitly states that the NASB translators add bracketed words for clarity - so I have no problem removing the bracketed words from the NASB - but this is verbatim from the NASB):- For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while -
- I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
- For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
As Paul writes further (in verse 9), the Apostle narrows the focus with "for you were made sorrowful according to God"; moreover, the Greek of ἐλυπήθητε γὰρ κατὰ Θεόν agrees with "for you were made sorrowful according to God". "ἐλυπήθητε" means "you grieved"/"you were made sorrowful", and "γὰρ" means "for", and "κατὰ" means "down"/"against"/"according to", and "Θεόν" means "God".
Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!
NOTICE THE KEYWORDS OF "ACCORDING TO GOD".
That sorrow, that repentance, is not of man's conjuring. See the keywords and absolute concept of "according to God"!
The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.
The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).
SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE
BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!
BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)
See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.
BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)
Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.
THE THREE QUESTIONS ANSWERED
God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability".God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!
Return to main essay "Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor"
SEGMENT 4 of 5
The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own sin against God with "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).
The Apostle Paul includes even the Gentiles in the Law "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves" (Romans 2:14).
The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own crime against God with "we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law [comes] the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:19-20).
The Apostle Paul explains that the commands of God are foolishness to man with a "natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14)
The Apostle Paul declares that man's flesh opposes the Spirit of God with "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).
THE FIRST STATE OF MAN IS OPPOSITION TO GOD, AND THE ONLY WAY (JOHN 14:6) FOR MAN'S SALVATION IS FOR GOD TO BIRTH MAN ANEW (JOHN 3:3-8), NOT A WORK OF A CHOICE BY MAN, BUT STRICTLY THE WORK OF GOD IN MAN (JOHN 6:29).
The Natural Is The First State Of Being For All Mere Mortals
The Apostle Paul identifies every man starts out as a natural man with "the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual" (1 Corinthians 15:46).The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own sin against God with "since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20).
The Apostle Paul includes even the Gentiles in the Law "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves" (Romans 2:14).
The Apostle Paul states that man is accountable to God for man's own crime against God with "we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law [comes] the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:19-20).
The Apostle Paul explains that the commands of God are foolishness to man with a "natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14)
The Apostle Paul declares that man's flesh opposes the Spirit of God with "the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. For these are opposed to one another" (Galatians 5:17).
THE FIRST STATE OF MAN IS OPPOSITION TO GOD, AND THE ONLY WAY (JOHN 14:6) FOR MAN'S SALVATION IS FOR GOD TO BIRTH MAN ANEW (JOHN 3:3-8), NOT A WORK OF A CHOICE BY MAN, BUT STRICTLY THE WORK OF GOD IN MAN (JOHN 6:29).
SEGMENT 5 of 5
THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves the guy himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns the gal herself.
SO, the guy saved himself because without his choosing of Jesus, then he'd be just like that gal.
POINTEDLY, the guy's salvation hinges solely on the guy's choosing Jesus because, in contrast to being saved, the guy would be hell-bound if that hinge of choosing Jesus did not swing open by the guy's power.
The "hinge" of the door mentioned above is based on free will philosophy.
Consider a third individual, who never heard the Gospel of Christ, such a person is not going to be with Christ in His Kingdom - even under free-willian philosophy.
In this sample population, the majority do not enter Heaven, yet the entire population of people are created by God.
On the other hand; we Christians hear the Master say "it is finished" (John 19:30), and in that moment we receive the love of God (John 3:16) bestowing undeserved forgiveness upon us wretched God-hating monsters (Ephesians 2:1-4) - that the Son sacrificed Himself to reconcile the world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19) for the glory of God (John 17:4-5).
We believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent, and we believe Lord Jesus' sayings that belief is the blessed work of God in us (John 6:28) - it is more than an awakening - it is an enlivening - it is being born again (John 3:3-8) - it is getting the new heart that God wondrously implants in us (Ezekiel 36:26).
We Christians know that God's merciful salvation hinges on Christ alone for the glory of God alone, and there is nothing we can do nor say - not even a human choice approving of Jesus in order to obtain saving grace - nothing we say or do earns the unearnable love of God. We believe that Being saved from the wrath of God is exclusively God choosing us, not us choosing God (John 15:16, John 15:19).
For Christians, it is "believing"; in contrast, for the guy saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it is "choosing".
For us Christians, it all hinges on Christ alone, yet for the free-willians saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it all hinges on the a free-willian's choice.
The free will philosophy is proven to be deception because "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18), so God does not trust a person who chooses Jesus; therefore, a free-willian who says "I chose Jesus" is bound for hell.
Behold, the psalmist says he is entirely dependent upon the Almighty!
I will extol You, O YHWH, for You have lifted me up,
And have not let my enemies rejoice over me.
O YHWH my God,
I cried to You for help, and You healed me.
O YHWH, You have brought up my soul from Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.
(Psalm 30:1-3)
See "The Natural Is The First State Of Being For All Mere Mortals" sidebar for more insight.
Christ is the Christ in us Christians, and we know the Sovereign God reigns in absolute control of saving us from the wrath of God unto everlasting life in the love of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Free-willian philosophy is foolishness, and each free-willian thinks he or she sovereignly controls God by way of his or her choosing Jesus - that is depraved thus we return to you last paragraph's first sentence.
Man Opening The Door To Salvation - The Free-willian Philosophy Explained
Free-willians think a person achieves salvation by doing the work of choosing Jesus, yet free-willians simultaneously think another person goes to hell in the absence of doing the work of choosing Jesus.THEREFORE, a guy that chose Jesus saves the guy himself, yet a gal that did not choose Jesus condemns the gal herself.
SO, the guy saved himself because without his choosing of Jesus, then he'd be just like that gal.
POINTEDLY, the guy's salvation hinges solely on the guy's choosing Jesus because, in contrast to being saved, the guy would be hell-bound if that hinge of choosing Jesus did not swing open by the guy's power.
The "hinge" of the door mentioned above is based on free will philosophy.
Consider a third individual, who never heard the Gospel of Christ, such a person is not going to be with Christ in His Kingdom - even under free-willian philosophy.
In this sample population, the majority do not enter Heaven, yet the entire population of people are created by God.
On the other hand; we Christians hear the Master say "it is finished" (John 19:30), and in that moment we receive the love of God (John 3:16) bestowing undeserved forgiveness upon us wretched God-hating monsters (Ephesians 2:1-4) - that the Son sacrificed Himself to reconcile the world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19) for the glory of God (John 17:4-5).
We believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent, and we believe Lord Jesus' sayings that belief is the blessed work of God in us (John 6:28) - it is more than an awakening - it is an enlivening - it is being born again (John 3:3-8) - it is getting the new heart that God wondrously implants in us (Ezekiel 36:26).
We Christians know that God's merciful salvation hinges on Christ alone for the glory of God alone, and there is nothing we can do nor say - not even a human choice approving of Jesus in order to obtain saving grace - nothing we say or do earns the unearnable love of God. We believe that Being saved from the wrath of God is exclusively God choosing us, not us choosing God (John 15:16, John 15:19).
For Christians, it is "believing"; in contrast, for the guy saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it is "choosing".
For us Christians, it all hinges on Christ alone, yet for the free-willians saying "I chose to believe in Jesus", it all hinges on the a free-willian's choice.
The free will philosophy is proven to be deception because "Behold, His servants, He does not trust" (Job 4:18), so God does not trust a person who chooses Jesus; therefore, a free-willian who says "I chose Jesus" is bound for hell.
Behold, the psalmist says he is entirely dependent upon the Almighty!
I will extol You, O YHWH, for You have lifted me up,
And have not let my enemies rejoice over me.
O YHWH my God,
I cried to You for help, and You healed me.
O YHWH, You have brought up my soul from Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.
(Psalm 30:1-3)
See "The Natural Is The First State Of Being For All Mere Mortals" sidebar for more insight.
Christ is the Christ in us Christians, and we know the Sovereign God reigns in absolute control of saving us from the wrath of God unto everlasting life in the love of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Free-willian philosophy is foolishness, and each free-willian thinks he or she sovereignly controls God by way of his or her choosing Jesus - that is depraved thus we return to you last paragraph's first sentence.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
The Bible does say men are sinful, wicked but no verse says man is born sinful, wicked. If one accepts how the BIble defines sin then one must reject original sin, total depravity.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Context matters as to who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said.
In the context of Jn 15:16 Jesus is speaking to His Apostles about choosing them to be Apostles. He promises those Apostles the Comforter (v26) "he shall teach you (Apostles) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (Jn 14:26) meaning the APostles were inspired by the Holy Spirit in what they spake and wrote which no one today has this inspiration. Your argument fails on Jn 15:16 for you keep taking it out of context adding ideas to it that are not there. God is not a respecter of persons (Acts 10:34-35) in unconditionally chooisng some to be saved leaving others to be lost.
Jesus responded this way:
Jesus the Bread of Life
22The next day, the crowd that had remained on the other side of the sea realized that only one boat had been there, and that Jesus had not boarded it with His disciples, but they had gone away alone.23However, some boats from Tiberias landed near the place where the people had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks. 24So when the crowd saw that neither Jesus nor His disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum to look for Him. 25When they found Him on the other side of the sea, they asked Him, “Rabbi, when did You get here?”
26Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it is not because you saw these signs that you are looking for Me, but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.”
28Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?”
29Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
30So they asked Him, “What sign then will You perform, so that we may see it and believe You? What will You do? 31Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’d”
32Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
Paul puts it this way:
Romans 4:
4:1 Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What did he discover about being made right with God?2 If his good deeds had made him acceptable to God, he would have had something to boast about. But that was not God’s way.3 For the Scriptures tell us, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[a]
4 When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. 5 But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. 6 David also spoke of this when he described the happiness of those who are declared righteous without working for it:
Either way, the work of God is to believe on the one whom he had sent, and that is what makes a person right with God by faith.
So is belief a work? I suppose to some degree yes it is.
Faith produces fruits in which Christ performs in by the spirit within a believer - which are the works of ??? Love from my understanding.
Faith and the works that Christ perform go hand and hand. One side of the coin Faith - the other side of the coin Love (Works).
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Again, if God gives commands that are impossible to be obeyed then that would make God evil sadistic unloving unjust. Therefore God's commands do imply ability and accountability.
You cannot have it both ways in trying to have God give commands impossible to obeyed then eternally punish man for not obeying those impossible commands yet that not make God evil, sadistic unloving unjust.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Again, God has commanded man to repent (Acts 2:38) therefore that command implies ability to repent, responsibility upon man to obey that command to repent and accountability if man does not repent.
Acts 11:18 when God granted repentence unto life to the Gentiles describes God's role in the salvation of the Gentiles by giving the Gentiles an opportunity to have sins forgiven. It was still up to those Gentiles to take advantage of that opportunity God gave them and repent. It does not mean in anyway that those Gentiles could not repent unless God first gave them the ability to repent. Such would make God a respecter of person to whom God gave ability to repent to and withheld that ability to repent from. Again, it makes no sense in God commanding man to repent if man cannot possibly do so and then eternally punish man for not obeying that impossible command.
In Psa 2:8 David prophesied that God would GIVE the Gentile nations to Christ as an inheritence. That does not mean that all Gentiles were universally, unconditionally given to Christ. From Acts 10 onward Gentiles still had to be conditionally obedient to God's plan of salvation to be saved. Therefore when the Bible says God grants or God gives it describes God's role in man's salvation with no reference to the false idea of Calvinism's unconditional election. Hence God gave, He granted the opportunity to repent to the Gentiles to be saved but it was still incumbent upon the Gentiles to take advantage of that opportunity God granted them by obeying by repenting.
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Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Again, you continue to avoid the words spoken in Jn 6:27-29. The phrase "work of God" shows that God is the genesis of the work given to man to do. No verse says God does the work of believing for man while man sits idle.
John 6:27 Jesus said to WORK for the spiritual food that endures unto everlasting life which the Son of man gives. The implication is no work = no eveflasting life. ALL you arguments die here. Your argument is not with me but with JESUS CHRIST.
After telling those people to WORK for the food that endures unto everlasting life, those people obviously wanted to know what that work was they WE DO, that WE WORK the works of God. I am not citing myself here but citing the BIble..."Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
Jesus responded by giving the the work of believing to do when He said YOU believe. He says NOTHING about God doing the work of belieivng for them. It appears you keep copying and pasting articles from some website that does not address what Jesus actually said in this passage.
========================
The new birth (Jn 3) occurs when one obeys the gospel by being water baptized. God has commanded all men, Jews and Gentiles, to be baptized (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48). Anf the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord for remission of sins is the 'like manner' way Jews and Gentiles are saved (Acts 15:11).
Jn 3:5----------born of water and of the Spirit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Matt 7:21---doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
There is but one way to be saved/enter the kingdom and it involves DOING the will of God in submitting to water baptism as He has commanded. Those who obediently submit to water baptism are the one's God performs a circumcision made without hands in putting of the body of sins (Col 2:11-12). Hence men do for a fact choose to be born again by choosing to 'doeth the will of the Father" in submitting to water baptism thereby enter the kingdom.
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Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
If man has no free will, then why does man do the things he does??? If a man committed mass murder but he has no free will then he did not choose to commit murder but God caused/forced him to commit murder. Therefore God has culpability in murder, man was just the 'weapon' God used to commit murder. Yet such an idea is revolting.
Acts 2:23
"Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"
If man has no free will and all that comes to pass is a result of "God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass" (WCF, Chp 3, Part 1) then Peter should have blamed God for having wicked hands for those Jews were just the 'weapon' God used to murder an innocent man, Christ Jesus. Peter would be unjust in condemning those Jews for what God ordained and for what was completely out of control of those Jews. Such ideas of Calvinism makes God out to be evil sadistic, unjust, unholy and gives fuel and fodder to atheists.
Truth is God has foreknowledge, as the verse states, and God foreknew that if He sent Christ to earth at that particular time in history those Romans and Jews of their OWN FREE WILL would chose to crucify Christ and in doing so they unknowingly accomplished God's pre-creation plan that Christ die for the sins of the world. Therefore Peter was correct in condemning those Jew's wicked hand for THEIR FREE WILL choice in crucifying Christ and God would be JUST in condmening them for THEIR FREE WILL choice. It's the foolishness of Calvinism making God culpable for the murder of an innocent man then putting the blame upon those innocent Jews that God forced to murder the Christ. Having no free will as you claim, those Jews were nothing but puppets on strings unable to do anything but God's bidding to murder Christ.
I posted the following before from a Calvinist Professor Wayn Grudem: (my emp)
"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true, because Scripture teaches them. But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass. Here Scripture is silent, and we have to agree with Berkhof that ultimately “the problem of God’s relation to sin remains a mystery" (Systematic Theology, p.331.)
The professor has God ordaining evil things that come to pass but then ponders "But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass." Hence having Peter holding those Jews accountable for what God ordained them to do would be a foolish "mystery" of Calvinism and is not found in the Bible as the so called "Professor" falsely claims. Calvinism created this "mystery" problem for itself for it certainly is not found in the Bible. Scripture certainly is silent when it comes to Calvinism.
The Professor writes "That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself" God holding man accountable for what God ordained where man can do nothing but what God ordains makes God evil, sadistic unjust unloving unholy. Calvinism should be totally, thoroughly rejected by all.
If you condition your salvation on anything you did, its a works related salvation which is condemned in scripture friend.
I copied and pasted Jn 6:27-29 word for word from the BIble, you reject that word.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The facts given from the above passage Calvinists ignore;
--Jesus made work necessary for them to have everlasting life, v27. All faith onlyists arguments die right here.
--hence the people ask what shall WE DO, that WE WORK the works of God. They obviously wanted to know what work was necessary that THEY do per v27 in order to have everlasting life that Jesus says He gives.
--Jesus did NOT say 'do no works lest ye attempt to merit the gift of everlasting life' instead Jesus gave them a work to do that they could have everlasting life per v27. Again, Jesus REQUIRED WORK on the part of MAN to have everlasting life in v27.
--the required WORK in order to have everlasting life per v27 is to believe, hence belief itself is a work. And Jesus in v29 said this is the work of God that YOU believe. Jesus clearly here gave the work of believing to those people to do...YOU believe, Jesus did not say God will do the work of beliving for you while you sit and do nothing.
I am citing the Bible here not myself as you fasely accuse. Simply because the context does not say what you wished it would does not make others wrong.
You continue to ignore the context of Jn 15:16 where Jesus was in the CONTEXT speaking to His Apostles that He chose to that office, those men did not choose to be in that office themselves. This context therefore has NOTHING to do with the salvation of men.
No verse says man lacks free will. Man is made in the image of God (1 Cor 11:7; James 3:9) and God has free will as does man (Joshua 24:15, Matt 23:37; Jn 7:17), God has the the ability to create as does man, God has the ability to reason as does man (Isa 1:18) man has a sense of judgment (Rom 2:14-15) as does God.....all traits man shares with God having been made in God's image/likeness.
Created in the Image of God
As a potter fashions clay into a vessel, the book of Genesis affirms that mankind was "created" in the very image of God. He is not the product of an ancient slime pit.christiancourier.com
In What Sense is Humanity in the Image of God?
The Bible speaks of humankind as being in the "image" of God (Gen. 1:26). In what sense is the term, "image," employed in this text?
Again, if man has no free will then that makes God evil, sadistic, unjust, unloving, a respecter of persons and have culpability for the lost.
Your illegal grammar wrongly divides the Word of God such as your bullet point above "--the required WORK in order to" where your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) wickedly separates "the work of God" from "believe" recorded in John 6:29!
The following carefully examines the Lord's words with legal grammar in Truth (John 14:6).
REGARDLESS OF THE SURROUNDING CONVERSATION IN JOHN CHAPTER 6, THE WORD OF GOD DEFINES THAT I BELIEVE IN HIM WHOM THE FATHER HAS SENT (JOHN 6:29) AS BEING THE WORK OF GOD; THEREFORE, GOD CONTROLS BELIEF/FAITH IN ME, AND THIS BLESSING DECLARED BY JESUS APPLIES TO EVERY BELIEVER IN ALL TIME!
After the people asked "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" (John 6:28) of Jesus, then the Lord dispels the notion that man manipulates faith/belief with His response of "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). Notice Jesus' removal of the work of men, so man does not manipulate faith/belief according to Jesus (John 6:29).
When you preach things like "The people asked what work is it that WE DO and not what work will God do for us. Jesus gave them a work to do: believe", then your heart (Matthew 15:16-19) adulterates the Word of God into "this is you working the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass).
In effect, you think "this is you controlling the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass).
To further paraphrase while maintaining your context, you promote "this is you controlling God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the thoughts of Ernest T. Bass' heart).
Your heart's treasure of "you controlling God" exalts yourself like the Most High. It is written "you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’" (Isaiah 14:13-14), and the passage is followed by the result of being thrust into the pit (Isaiah 14:15).
In Truth (John 14:6), Lord Jesus says God controls man for the Lord's proclamation of "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) uses intentional grammatical structure resulting in "you believe in Him whom He has sent" being the sentence subject, and "is the work of God" is the predicate, and the word "is" is the verb in "is the work of God", and the direct object of the sentence is "the work of God", so the spiritual food that the Son of Man gives (John 6:27) is that God controls the "you believing in Him whom He has sent" subject of the sentence (John 6:29).
Every single one of us Christians believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is fully the work of God (John 6:29), both the "you" and the "believing" in John 6:29 are caused/created/controlled by God, by God's grace for God's glory.
I proclaim to you that the Word of God says "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).
NO SCRIPTURE STATES MAN HAS A FREE-WILL TO CHOOSE JESUS UNTO SALVATION, SO SELF-WILLED PERSONS REVILE KING JESUS (2 PETER 2:9-10) BY THEIR THOUGHTS THAT THEY CHOOSE JESUS DESPITE LORD JESUS SAYING "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) AND "COLOR=RED]I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD[/COLOR]" (JOHN 15:19, INCLUDES SALVATION) AND "WHAT I SAY TO YOU I SAY TO ALL" (MARK 13:37).
See Lord Jesus Christ's sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).
The term free-will indicates your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.
Essentially, you are saying your will is autonomous from God; in other words, God does not control your will.
You say you control your will all by yourself. Now, see the word "self" in "yourself".
Free-will is a misnomer of sorts since the only reference to free-will is as an illusory thing by the Apostle Paul (Philemon 1:14), so let's use a scriptural term used by the Apostle Peter, which is the term "self-will" (2 Peter 2:9-10). A self-willed person represents an autonomous willed person.
You have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10), but your self-will is incapable of choosing Jesus because Lord Jesus says you are incapable of perceiving Jesus properly without being born of God (John 3:3).
No scripture states man has a free-will capable of choosing Jesus unto being saved from the wrath of God.
We find that self-willed persons daringly revile the majesty of King Jesus (2 Peter 2:9-10), after all, the Apostle wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).
Your statement is deception because the Word of God says powerfully:
- "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
- "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
- "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
Christ defines and makes us Christians.
The Apostle Paul wrote that s Christian's will is bound to God Almighty (Philippians 2:13), and this is a wonderful blessing!
Your statement demonstrates your lack of understanding.
See Lord Jesus Christ's sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).
The act of thinking is the mind working. A thought is a work.
See here, that Jesus refers to the mind working with "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind" (Matthew 22:37).
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