Is believing in the trinity necessary to be a christian?

[Arnie Manitoba]

The people who crucified Christ did not believe in the trinity ..... that is why they killed him .....

Jesus told them .... "when you see Me you see The Father"

... they did not believe it , and killed Him for claiming to be God.

Maybe I should have said it different ...... ONE of the reasons they killed Christ was because He claimed to be the "I AM" (God)

The Deity of Christ is probably the most important part of the "Trinity" doctrine

And as we well know .... the unsaved Jews DID NOT believe in the Deity of Christ

............

And to further clarify ..... NO !! ..... I do not believe knowledge of the trinity is a requirement of salvation ...... BUT .... if anyone does not believe in the divinity of Christ and testifies in such a manner he is an unbeliever as far as I am concerned

For example go into the Muslim temple in mecca and they have a big sign that says .... "God has no Son" ....... go into a JW Kingdom Hall and they will say Jesus was just Michael the archangel .... go to all the other religions in the world and they will all say .... "Jesus was just a good teacher" ......

Bottom line they deny the divinity of Jesus and the divinity of the Holy Spirit ..... which makes them unbelievers in the trinity and they are unsaved.

To nail it down even better ...... remember that when Jesus was here ..... the people saw him , heard Him , witnessed his miracles ..... so obviously they believed what they were seeing and they believed there was a Jesus because He was right there in front of them ...... so please tell me why they were called unbelievers ???? ... it's because they did not believe the portion of the trinity doctrine that Jesus was God come in human form .

It all comes down to the Divinity of Jesus ..... which of course is a component of the trinity .... which is the topic of this thread.

To deny the Trinity is denying the divinity of Christ and is typical of the unbeliever.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

To deny the Trinity is denying the divinity of Christ and is typical of the unbeliever.

One can disbelieve the former (as defined by some) while believing the latter

It is true that GOD has a 3-fold nature; the son is divine (GOD); the son is not the father; the father is greater than the son; the logos who became the son preexisted creation.

Yet the ideas of GOD being 3 persons (trinitarianism) or having 3 faces (modalism) are pagan to the core. It's not just a coincidence that the concept of a 3-bodied trinity gained a foothold about the same time that so many other pagan customs infiltrated Christianity. Trinitarianism (as defined by some) is a syncretism of pagan beliefs with the truth of the father, son and holy spirit.

 

[KingJ]

One can disbelieve the former (as defined by some) while believing the latter

It is true that GOD has a 3-fold nature; the son is divine (GOD); the son is not the father; the father is greater than the son; the logos who became the son preexisted creation.

Yet the ideas of GOD being 3 persons (trinitarianism) or having 3 faces (modalism) are pagan to the core. It's not just a coincidence that the concept of a 3-bodied trinity gained a foothold about the same time that so many other pagan customs infiltrated Christianity. Trinitarianism (as defined by some) is a syncretism of pagan beliefs with the truth of the father, son and holy spirit.

The former is crucial in as far as believing Jesus is Lord.

You are not saved if you cannot call Jesus Lord. You can only call Jesus Lord if you are saved.

And to further clarify ..... NO !! ..... I do not believe knowledge of the trinity is a requirement of salvation ...... BUT .... if anyone does not believe in the divinity of Christ and testifies in such a manner he is an unbeliever as far as I am concerned

I agree with everything you have said Arnie.

I was just thinking further on this statement above. At which point are we saved? When we make the leap of faith? Or when we are caught and land on the other side? We are not saved if we do not believe Jesus is diety. Hence believing in that part of the trinity is a crucial fruit / proof of salvation...hence believing in the trinity is necessary to be a Christian.

Better yet, why don't you explain to me why you don't see what I said in these verses?

You are dodging. Your view makes no sense in light of those verses. God sits next to Himself? God peaks to Himself like a madman? :wacko:.

I dont know if Muslims will be saved but they are not followers of Jesus. And Muslims dont believe Jesus is Son of God, either.

I believe Jesus is Son of God because that's what He says.

I dont claim Jesus is God but Jesus is my Lord and I have been serving Him for 13 years, friend.

The statement ''Followers of Jesus'' needs clarification as many have their own interpretation of what ''following'' is <_<.

Jesus said to Peter that He was the Son, Peter didn't believe Him. Only when Peter had a revelation from God could he call Jesus, Lord. (Matt 16,1 Cor 12:3)

I understand what you are saying but a person who is about to accept Jesus into their heart does not necessarily know this...the outcome may be that revelation but in the beginning, this is a mystery to most... :huh:

BB

I am confused by the underlined. As Christians, we may or may not call Jesus Lord?

 

[Selene]

To answer the OP's question, one has to believe in the Trinity (three persons in one God) in order to be a Christian. Jesus is God, and those who do not believe that Christ is not God......they are not Christians. Jews and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God and therefore are not Christians.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The former is crucial in as far as believing Jesus is Lord.

You are not saved if you cannot call Jesus Lord. You can only call Jesus Lord if you are saved.

I believe Jesus is lord, yet I don't believe GOD is 3 persons.

What sayest thou now?

To answer the OP's question, one has to believe in the Trinity (three persons in one God) in order to be a Christian. Jesus is God, and those who do not believe that Christ is not God......they are not Christians. Jews and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God and therefore are not Christians.

I believe Jesus is GOD, but I don't believe GOD is 3 persons.

 

[KingJ]

I believe Jesus is lord, yet I don't believe GOD is 3 persons.

What sayest thou now?

I believe Jesus is GOD, but I don't believe GOD is 3 persons.

I quote you twice in post # 123.

 

[Groundzero]

I believe Jesus is lord, yet I don't believe GOD is 3 persons.

What sayest thou now?

I believe Jesus is GOD, but I don't believe GOD is 3 persons.

Amen.

Here's someone who seems to understand a bit. Denying the Trinity doesn't deny Jesus' deity, in fact, it makes Him SUPREME deity, which is the place we should be giving him anyway, seeing that he is the king of kings, the Lord of lords, the only immortal, the one who created all things, the Almighty and the list just keeps going on.

 

[KingJ]

Amen.

Here's someone who seems to understand a bit. Denying the Trinity doesn't deny Jesus' deity, in fact, it makes Him SUPREME deity, which is the place we should be giving him anyway, seeing that he is the king of kings, the Lord of lords, the only immortal, the one who created all things, the Almighty and the list just keeps going on.

It makes no sense when you consider Jesus will sit next to the Father and He spoke to the Father.

 

[meshak]

The statement ''Followers of Jesus'' needs clarification as many have their own interpretation of what ''following'' is

It is just it says, following Jesus' teachings or commands because their Lord is Jesus. It seems to be clear that most organizations dont seem to know this simple and basic essential to be Jesus' servants.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It makes no sense when you consider Jesus will sit next to the Father and He spoke to the Father.

It makes perfect sense when you realize Jesus is the visible lord ruling from the invisible father's right hand of power.

Can you show me anywhere in scripture where the father has a body? A person by definition must have a body. And have you never talked with yourself?

 

[Butch5]

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.


Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Hi JB,

I'm not sure of your point here.

Amen.

Here's someone who seems to understand a bit. Denying the Trinity doesn't deny Jesus' deity, in fact, it makes Him SUPREME deity, which is the place we should be giving him anyway, seeing that he is the king of kings, the Lord of lords, the only immortal, the one who created all things, the Almighty and the list just keeps going on.

Hi,

Scripture says that the Father alone is immortal.

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(1Ti 6:14-16 KJV)

This passage can 't be speaking of Jesus since He has been seen of men and can be seen by men. It must be the Father and it says He alone has immortality.

 

[Groundzero]

It makes no sense when you consider Jesus will sit next to the Father and He spoke to the Father.

It makes no sense until you lay aside your own intellect and realise that if God wants to take on a body of flesh, it's his choice.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

What is the mystery? The mystery is how GOD could rob himself in flesh and be just like a man, yet still be Almighty God.

As for Jesus sitting next to the Father, how many thrones, may I ask, are in Heaven?? Do you think Jesus literally sits on the Father's right hand? Bless your heart, the Father is a spirit, he doesn't have hands!!! It's a figurative speech referring to the glorification of Jesus' humanity and how that the body of flesh was no longer mortal, but all-powerful!

Now I'm not sure what you believe, but if you're Trinitarian, and you insist that Jesus is God as well as the Father, then wouldn't it make Jesus a lesser God to pray to the Father? It shoots the Trinity in the foot as well. I have an answer. In Psalms, Psa_65:2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.
Jesus Christ was flesh? If so, it was a fulfilment of the Holy Writ that he prayed!

Notice in Joh_14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Jesus prayed while he was on earth, but the amazing thing is, He was also the ONE WHO ANSWERED PRAYER. If you make Jesus only the Son, you deny his supreme deity, and they are shoes I would not like to fill.

Hi JB,

I'm not sure of your point here.


Hi,

Scripture says that the Father alone is immortal.

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(1Ti 6:14-16 KJV)

This passage can 't be speaking of Jesus since He has been seen of men and can be seen by men. It must be the Father and it says He alone has immortality.

And why can't it be speaking of Jesus? Is that because it would throw a spanner in the works? Who is going to come again? Jesus! What is his description? Do i need to repeat it again??

 

[KingJ]

It makes no sense until you lay aside your own intellect and realise that if God wants to take on a body of flesh, it's his choice.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

What is the mystery? The mystery is how GOD could rob himself in flesh and be just like a man, yet still be Almighty God.

As for Jesus sitting next to the Father, how many thrones, may I ask, are in Heaven?? Do you think Jesus literally sits on the Father's right hand? Bless your heart, the Father is a spirit, he doesn't have hands!!! It's a figurative speech referring to the glorification of Jesus' humanity and how that the body of flesh was no longer mortal, but all-powerful!

Now I'm not sure what you believe, but if you're Trinitarian, and you insist that Jesus is God as well as the Father, then wouldn't it make Jesus a lesser God to pray to the Father? It shoots the Trinity in the foot as well. I have an answer. In Psalms, Psa_65:2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.
Jesus Christ was flesh? If so, it was a fulfilment of the Holy Writ that he prayed!

Notice in Joh_14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Jesus prayed while he was on earth, but the amazing thing is, He was also the ONE WHO ANSWERED PRAYER. If you make Jesus only the Son, you deny his supreme deity, and they are shoes I would not like to fill.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

No trinitarian sees Jesus as inferior, seriously? Scripture is very clear that the way to see the trinity is like we see a marriage. One in spirit but three seperate beings. Why fight it?

Regarding the underlined, yes, that is what the scripture I quoted says...and I believe it, as is. No need to complicate the matter just because it is the '''spiritual realm''. Bless you heart ^_^.

It makes perfect sense when you realize Jesus is the visible lord ruling from the invisible father's right hand of power.

Can you show me anywhere in scripture where the father has a body? A person by definition must have a body. And have you never talked with yourself?

That makes no sense to me. We are made in the image of God. Hence, one can be forgiven for thinking God has a body.

God will talk to Himself for 40 days in the wilderness......God will sit next to Himself......God wil descend upon Himself (Luke 3:22)..... sounds like madness.

Just simply accept scripture and the picture it draws. Stop adding imagination.

 

[mjrhealth]

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus,

If Jesus was God, than why would God need a mediator. ???

Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

It is as it was written, the word was God, but it was not yet Jesus becasue He had not yet spoken that word,

Luk 1:37 For no word from God shall be void of power.
Luk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold, the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.

And the Word became Flesh, " Jesus"

SO simple. Yet ming boggling too

In All His Love

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This passage can 't be speaking of Jesus since He has been seen of men and can be seen by men. It must be the Father and it says He alone has immortality.

Jesus is the Potentate, King of kings, and Lord of lords, not the father. The father is the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see, except Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

I have to clarify my view. I understand that there is confusion that Jesus is simply the Son of God and not 'God' if you think of them as three distinctly separate beings. But I do not believe that! Jesus is God. I believe in God the Father. God the Son and God the Holy ghost.

I actually can accept your view too ''ChristRosefromthedead' (such a long name ^_^) even though it takes some thinking outside the box. It is second best to mine . Everything else is heresy .

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

No trinitarian sees Jesus as inferior, seriously? Scripture is very clear that the way to see the trinity is like we see a marriage. One in spirit but three seperate beings. Why fight it?

That makes no sense to me. We are made in the image of God. Hence, one can be forgiven for thinking God has a body.

God will talk to Himself for 40 days in the wilderness......God will sit next to Himself......God wil descend upon Himself (Luke 3:22)..... sounds like madness.

Just simply accept scripture and the picture it draws. Stop adding imagination.

Uh-oh! There's that kinky threesome marriage thing again.

GOD does have a body; it's name is Jesus.

The things you mentioned sound like madness to a carnal mind that can't see beyond three dimensions. Just simply accept the witness of the spirit through scripture and the picture it draws. Stop resisting the spirit with the carnal mind.

 

[KingJ]

Uh-oh! There's that kinky threesome marriage thing again.

GOD does have a body; it's name is Jesus.

The things you mentioned sound like madness to a carnal mind that can't see beyond three dimensions. Just simply accept the witness of the spirit through scripture and the picture it draws. Stop resisting the spirit with the carnal mind.

Start using your carnal mind to see three separate individuals mentioned.

You are limiting yourself to a carnal mind when you grasp a marriage of two and not three.

 

[Groundzero]

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

No trinitarian sees Jesus as inferior, seriously? Scripture is very clear that the way to see the trinity is like we see a marriage. One in spirit but three seperate beings. Why fight it?

Regarding the underlined, yes, that is what the scripture I quoted says...and I believe it, as is. No need to complicate the matter just because it is the '''spiritual realm''. Bless you heart ^_^.


That makes no sense to me. We are made in the image of God. Hence, one can be forgiven for thinking God has a body.

God will talk to Himself for 40 days in the wilderness......God will sit next to Himself......God wil descend upon Himself (Luke 3:22)..... sounds like madness.

Just simply accept scripture and the picture it draws. Stop adding imagination.

The way to see the Trinity is like a marriage? I'd like to see the Scripture for that one please . . . ??
Haha. Of course power was given. To who? It was given to the man Christ Jesus, but that man was also the Almighty God who already had All Power.

You know what's really mad? It's this 'madness' that the Jews kept tripping over, and it's this 'madness' that the Greeks call foolish, just as you do now.

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
The Jews were looking for a different Messiah, which is why they stumbled. And the Greeks called it foolish because they always thought carnally, creating the heavenly family, who sent down someone to earth etc. The Trinity is man's futile attempt to make something that was miraculous explainable. We can't explain how God, the Almighty, could someone fuse himself into the flesh, but we know it happened.

You say that no Trinitarian sees Jesus as inferior? Of course not! But I right now i wish there was a Unitarian here who could show you the error of the Trinity doctrine. If you make Jesus ONLY the Son, you DENY HIS SUPREME DEITY. Look through the Bible and tell me what you see. I see a Son who was SENT. I see a Son who had to PRAY. I see someone who had to EAT, SLEEP, and DRINK! I see a Son who DIED!! Is that God??? No!!! Stop kidding yourself. There is ONE way that you can make Jesus God. Make him ALL of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

The Godhead (deity) is IN Jesus, not Jesus in the Godhead.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Jesus isn't IN the Godhead. He IS the Godhead.

 

[Episkopos]

Salvation does not consist of filling out a list of theological questions correctly.