Is Calvinism a Cult?

[aspen]

I think Calvin was self righteous, but his doctrine is orthodox

 

[aspen]

As far as the term cult; all religion started with another religion so it seems to be a meaningless term

 

[FHII]

I think Calvin was self righteous, but his doctrine is orthodox

From what I have read, it wasn't orthodox at the time. He approved of the Catholic Church but disliked Popes.

 

[FHII]

As far as the term cult; all religion started with another religion so it seems to be a meaningless term

It is... Thanks to Charlie Manson and Jim Jones it has become a slur.

 

[Sword]

Well, if anyone cares I'd like to give my analysis. Sword... Yea you did come off as abrasive.




Do you seriously not see the abrasiveness in that? I kind of get what you are saying. But then again, is this topic so stupid that it should not be discussed? Ive seen worse! Someone wanted to discuss the musical Jesus Christ: Superstar... Imagine that?

So sword... You did go off on a new member when you could've been more tactful.

But Brother Jason...




Seriously? Are you really being honest when in the same statement you hinted that you would insult them in the future?

You posted a lot of one-liners from alledged Calvinists and I can't help but to think that you picked them to grind an ax. Even the title of the thread itself suggests that.

Overall, I would've liked Sword to take a softer approach... But Brother Jason, you did jump into the ring swinging!

I also could see the sarchasim in his post. Hes a big boy. Just happened to be another thread on nothing to do with the commison or kingdom.
You are missing my main point I aint writing it again. Was jesus abrasive or was He a lot worse than that? Peter and Paul?

Lets call it what it is . what we talk about here most of the time is dung. You can find the true meaning of that in scripture. Paul tells ya and if you do a proper study on it. its the same word we use today in the world. We have a commisson. Its not getting done is it. there are no up to date testimonys but were all here talkin garbage . sorry that truth hurts you. But its a fact. Where are the testimonys do the majority in here even know what an up to date testimony looks like. I have offerd a lot here on how to have testimonys. Its almost completly refusd. I am called a liar three times. Ok that is fine doesnt bother me. But where are you testimonys guys? If I am wrong and you have it down where are they. You aint got any. A woman soke in here about her afther dying and the next guy says great testimony. He died thats not glory to God. God never took him. satan took his life. This siwhy I wonder do we even know what a testimoy is in here. I know this is hard hitting. But its true. I tried the softer approach make no impact at all. Forget it. Jesus called them for every thing john called them vipers. Jesus calls peter satan. Dont be asking me for a softer approach. I am only here for them with ears to hear. and they are quitly agreeing although there are not many. But thats to be expected.
The road is narrow and few enter there in. A lot of people think that its only Christians that sit talking about hewre. Wonder if its believing believers.
The people who have ears are not offended at me, wonder why that is.

 

[FHII]

I also could see the sarchasim in his post. Hes a big boy. Just happened to be another thread on nothing to do with the commison or kingdom.
You are missing my main point I aint writing it again. Was jesus abrasive or was He a lot worse than that? Peter and Paul?

Lets call it what it is . what we talk about here most of the time is dung. You can find the true meaning of that in scripture. Paul tells ya and if you do a proper study on it. its the same word we use today in the world. We have a commisson. Its not getting done is it. there are no up to date testimonys but were all here talkin garbage . sorry that truth hurts you. But its a fact. Where are the testimonys do the majority in here even know what an up to date testimony looks like. I have offerd a lot here on how to have testimonys. Its almost completly refusd. I am called a liar three times. Ok that is fine doesnt bother me. But where are you testimonys guys? If I am wrong and you have it down where are they. You aint got any. A woman soke in here about her afther dying and the next guy says great testimony. He died thats not glory to God. God never took him. satan took his life. This siwhy I wonder do we even know what a testimoy is in here. I know this is hard hitting. But its true. I tried the softer approach make no impact at all. Forget it. Jesus called them for every thing john called them vipers. Jesus calls peter satan. Dont be asking me for a softer approach. I am only here for them with ears to hear. and they are quitly agreeing although there are not many. But thats to be expected.
The road is narrow and few enter there in. A lot of people think that its only Christians that sit talking about hewre. Wonder if its believing believers.
The people who have ears are not offended at me, wonder why that is.

Yea, he's a big boy and if he's going to come in like he did, he's going to get that response.

I really don't give a rat's behind if you think I got your point are not. Fact is I did. Was Jesus abrasive? Or Paul? Or Peter? Absolutely. They were also equally kind at the right time.

The fact is the commission is getting done. The commission is to bring the gospel to the world. That's it. That gospel is going to be a witness...against more people than its going to be for.

 

[aspen]

From what I have read, it wasn't orthodox at the time. He approved of the Catholic Church but disliked Popes.

I read institutes of religion about 20 years ago and probably only processed maybe a 5th of it, so my opinion is woefully uninformed at this point in my life.

 

[Sword]

The fact is the commission is getting done. The commission is to bring the gospel to the world. That's it. That gospel is going to be a witness...against more people than its going to be for.

What does that look like in your daily life? the gospel the commission? When you get this correct then you can start telling me when to be nice.

 

[FHII]

What does that look like in your daily life? the gospel the commission? When you get this correct then you can start telling me when to be nice.

It looks pretty good, but I am not going to start comparing my daily life with yours or anyone els's.

I believe you were abrasive. Was there cause? Sure. But you're right. I usually don't care how people act towards one another on this board. At least not enough to comment on it. Don't usually need to because when people do that they are doing more damage to themselves. They don't need my help to look bad.

 

[Sword]

It looks pretty good, but I am not going to start comparing my daily life with yours or anyone els's.

I believe you were abrasive. Was there cause? Sure. But you're right. I usually don't care how people act towards one another on this board. At least not enough to comment on it. Don't usually need to because when people do that they are doing more damage to themselves. They don't need my help to look bad.

I was no abrasive because there was a cause. The abbrasiveness as you call it is from me to him and all the others who do nothing like what we are called to do. What should I do nothing. Not a a chance. What I said is correct the way you take it is intierly up you you and any one else. Only two complianed you and the OP. I aint getting damaged here. I am still wondering if you get it or not. I never asked you to have a comparrison match with me or anyone else for that matter. I asked you what does it look like according to scripture. I was gonna say I dont get your reluctance to share what your doing or not doing But I do get it. You dont have any testimonys daily or weekly or mothly or you would share them Its a pleasure to share testinonys. So this is gonna look like a grinder now to you. So have a little think about what I said. Before jumping in . Stop. You aint even taking this to Gods word filter it properly. Then decide if you have something edifying to say. What I said should shake you into looking at you life and assesing it. are you doing kingdom or not. If not why not? If yes share it so the brethern can grow together.

 

[lforrest]

Let's halt the hijacking of this thread and return to the OP.

 

[FHII]

. I am still wondering if you get it or not. I never asked you to have a comparrison match with me or anyone else for that matter. I asked you what does it look like according to scripture. I was gonna say I dont get your reluctance to share what your doing or not doing But I do get it. You dont have any testimonys daily or weekly or mothly or you would share them Its a pleasure to share testinonys.

I get it more than you think. Sword you cannot say you weren't looking for a comparison match and then tell me you don't understand why I am reluctant to share what I am doing.

I don't share what I am doing because I understand the first half of Mat 6. I am not going to share what I give, what I pray about or who I help. I would appreciate the thumbs up from my fellow Christians, but I would rather have God's acknowledgement.

Testimonies? Talking about doctrine? I am not against that and they can be shared.

So... I don't like to see backbiting, harsh conversations, belittling others and so forth. Ive documented what I see in the conversation. He Brother Jason came in like a lion and you treated him as such. Normally I ignore such stuff but in a moment of weakness I commented.

"Ize tired boss! Ize tired of people being ugly ta one anotha!" (From The Green Mile)

So, yea... Never should've gotten involved. I apologize for that. If you two want to lob grenades at each other... Go ahead. I'm out...

OTOH, I don't see the whole Calvinism debate as unworthwhile. I see discussing its truths and it's errors as important.

 

[OzSpen]

I seen your three posts. Do you have anything about what God is doing with you today. Like a testimony? Any thing about Jesus? God ,Holy Ghost. Why spend time on thing that have no bearing on the kingdom. forums full of it. everyone waiting to go to heaven? Arguing about all manner of garbage every day after day year after year. For what?

All I see is your time wasted on nothing of any Kingdom value.

Sword,

I found your post insulting to Brother Jason. This is such an important issue that the answer to 'What is the Gospel?' depends on it.

As Jason said: Charles Spurgeon has said many funny things about Calvinism, such as, “It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, nothing else".

So is Calvinism the Gospel? If not, what is?

While I voted 'No' in the poll. I don't believe Calvinism is a cult, but I consider it has some false teaching in it, e.g. double predestination, unconditional election, irresistible grace, and limited atonement.

However, I agree with Calvinism in much of its biblical/theological teaching, but I have a few issues with some doctrines.

We are discussing the core of the Gospel here. Isn't that important to you?

Do you have anything about what God is doing with you today. Like a testimony? Any thing about Jesus? God ,Holy Ghost.

You seem to be calling on Jason to engage you with experientialism rather than biblical theology. Experience doesn't determine biblical Christianity. Experience is the outcome of exposition of Scripture put into practice.

Oz

 

[Nancy]

I feel like the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum seems like a good place for this discussion. So, I'm wondering if anyone here thinks that Calvinists having the mindset that Calvinism is the gospel, that only Calvinists have the real Jesus, and that only Calvinists are true Christians would constitute a cult-like mindset for those that have it?

For example, here is a list of quotes from Calvinists who seem to me to profess such a cult-like view of their Calvinism:

Maurice Roberts, on the back-cover of The Potter’s Freedom, by James White, wrote, “In a manner reminiscent of Luther demolishing Erasmus, James White grinds the Semi-Pelagianism of Dr. Geisler to fine powder, not in the spirit of triumphalism, but knowing that all Arminianism is as hostile to the true gospel as it is friendly to a reviving Roman Catholicism.”



The description on the back-cover of The Potter’s Freedom says, “This book is written as a reply to Dr. Geisler, but it is much more: it is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed, it is a defense of the very gospel itself!”



Arthur Custance said, “It is questionable whether a dogmatic theology which is not Calvinistic is truly Christian.”

He also said, “Calvinism is the Gospel and to teach Calvinism is in fact to preach the Gospel.”



Kenneth Talbot and W. Gary Crampton said, “any compromise of Calvinism is a step towards humanism.”



They also said, “The apostolic doctrine was that of Reformed Theology.”



Loraine Boettner said, “There is no consistent stopping place between Calvinism and atheism.”



and, “The doctrine that men are saved only through the unmerited love and grace of God finds its full and honest expression only in the doctrines of Calvinism.”



William Cunningham said, “Calvinism is just the full exposition of and development of the sum and substance of what is represented in Scripture as done for the salvation of sinners by the three persons of the Godhead.”



David Engelsma said, “Calvinism is the Gospel. Its outstanding doctrines are simply the truths that make up the Gospel.”



Charles Spurgeon has said many funny things about Calvinism, such as, “It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, nothing else.”

and, “There is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism.”



and, “The longer I live the clearer does it appear that John Calvin’s system is the nearest to perfection.”



Rienk Kuiper said, “It is my firm conviction that the only theology contained in the Bible is the Reformed theology.”

R. K. McGregor Wright said, “Arminianism thought is best understood historically, as a compromise of the Reformation gospel with the humanistic motif of the autonomy of the human consciousness flowing out of the ancient pagan learning that had just been rediscovered in the Renaissance.”



Alexander Leighton said this about Arminianism, “The last and greatest monster of the man of sin; the elixir of Anti-Christianism.”



William MacLean wrote in his book Arminianism: Another Gospel, “Arminianism is the very essence of Popery.” Not potpourri, but Popery, as in the Pope.

He also wrote that Arminianism “appears as the gospel of Christ, but in reality is ‘another gospel.’”



Duane Spencer said that “Arminianism is but a refinement of Pelegianism.”



Grover Gunn said, “Arminianism teaches salvation mostly of grace but not all of grace.”



Edwin Palmer said, “I believe some Arminians may be born-again Christians.” How gracious of Mr. Palmer.



According to Milburn Cockrell, “The Christ of Arminianism is not the Christ of the New Testament.”



He also claims that “Christ and His apostles” were Calvinists!



Joseph Wilson said that “no one has ever been or ever will be saved in the way taught by Arminianism.”

I'm honestly not trying to insult or offend any Calvinists (at least, not right now). I'm just wondering if other people see this as a cult-like mindset, or if they think it's perfectly orthodox and acceptable to view your own theological brethren as the only true Christians. Thanks.

Hello Brother Jason,
I have a problem with ANY "isms". I had left my Church in the 90's because I could not get past some of the Calvinistic doctrines. Just thought I was not saved! Stayed away for years until 3.5 years ago. I was in the mire and was very depressed, even into despair. So, after much prayer I started looking into this doctrine again...this time with a computer, lol, I was able to see His grace much differently this time around. If it were true, then why even evangelize?? Why so many "whomsoever's" and "ALL" who call upon the name of Jesus shall be saved...He died for the WORLD, not a select, elite group. I now see predestination in a whole new light, we as gentiles were predestined to be grafted into the Vine along with His chosen people. And remember, God is no respecter of persons. Just my 2 cents
-nancy

 

[Willie T]

There is probably little that I am as opposed to, and find as repugnant as the arrogant, self-centered doctrine of Calvinism.

 

[Stranger]

There is probably little that I am as opposed to, and find as repugnant as the arrogant, self-centered doctrine of Calvinism.

Why is it arrogant? Why is it self-centered?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Hello Brother Jason,
I have a problem with ANY "isms". I had left my Church in the 90's because I could not get past some of the Calvinistic doctrines. Just thought I was not saved! Stayed away for years until 3.5 years ago. I was in the mire and was very depressed, even into despair. So, after much prayer I started looking into this doctrine again...this time with a computer, lol, I was able to see His grace much differently this time around. If it were true, then why even evangelize?? Why so many "whomsoever's" and "ALL" who call upon the name of Jesus shall be saved...He died for the WORLD, not a select, elite group. I now see predestination in a whole new light, we as gentiles were predestined to be grafted into the Vine along with His chosen people. And remember, God is no respecter of persons. Just my 2 cents
-nancy

I am not a dyed in the wool Calvinist. But I do agree with much of their doctrine. I do understand the difficulty many believers have with the doctrines of election. But, you must realize the Biblical support it has.

You ask, why evangelize? Well, we evangelize because God told us to. Is that not reason enough?

Indeed, all who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. That is not against Calvinism.

Yes, Christ paid the price for all. And Calvinism may disagree with that. But His blood is sufficient for all to be saved. But, that doesn't mean all will be saved.

Concerning the elite group you speak of, yes Christ died for an elite group but His death covered all in Adam. He came to save those that were lost. You are only lost if you are possessed by God in the first place. Not all who are born in this earth are of God. Not all who are born in this earth are lost.

Predestination speaks to the believer being brought into an adult son relation with the Father. It really doesn't concern election.

That God is no respecter of persons is no argument against election. His people come from all walks of society and nations.

I say these things not to trouble you in your walk with the Lord. Just to consider. God is just in whatever He does. He is not to be judged by us as just or unjust. He is just.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Why do/did some of us hear God calling us...and others just don't?
Why do some Christians stay as baby Christians with no understanding, and others are hungry and dig deeper?
Why have some of us had many dreams visions and moved in the gifts, and others just don't? Why?
Why can some of us actually feel the tangible felt Presence of God...and others not.
In my time, I have been asked these questions by Christians ...and I waffle and babble and answer, but in fact my truthful answer is...I do not know!!!!

 

[Nancy]

I am not a dyed in the wool Calvinist. But I do agree with much of their doctrine. I do understand the difficulty many believers have with the doctrines of election. But, you must realize the Biblical support it has.

You ask, why evangelize? Well, we evangelize because God told us to. Is that not reason enough?

Indeed, all who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. That is not against Calvinism.

Yes, Christ paid the price for all. And Calvinism may disagree with that. But His blood is sufficient for all to be saved. But, that doesn't mean all will be saved.

Concerning the elite group you speak of, yes Christ died for an elite group but His death covered all in Adam. He came to save those that were lost. You are only lost if you are possessed by God in the first place. Not all who are born in this earth are of God. Not all who are born in this earth are lost.

Predestination speaks to the believer being brought into an adult son relation with the Father. It really doesn't concern election.

That God is no respecter of persons is no argument against election. His people come from all walks of society and nations.

I say these things not to trouble you in your walk with the Lord. Just to consider. God is just in whatever He does. He is not to be judged by us as just or unjust. He is just.

Stranger

Yes, God is always Just, merciful, jealous for us!
Yes, there are some scriptures that could support the Cal. view, but then there are many more (IMO) that do not support it. I used to walk around in the 90's thinking I was just a vessel created unto dishonor because I did not "feel" anything tangible inside me change. I had read something on Calvinism and that just intensified those thoughts. Over many years, God was always in the forefront of my mind and I had such a hard time trying to wrap my mind around TULIP!!! Although. I do believe in once saved always saved.
Funny thing is that, when I came back to a church and spoke with the Pastor after attending a few services...of which I enjoyed (and still do), he said he was a Calvinist...my heart dropped but, I was not going to let my thoughts about it interfere with my own growth...he does NOT teach on it though..hmmm.
I believe that anybody who diligently seeks His face will be rewarded and-find Him! My pastor does not believe we have free will to "choose this day whom you will serve" He calls that a work of the flesh! I love my pastor,him and I will never agree on some things but, we agree to disagree and he gives a great sermon so, all is good. Thank you for your input Stranger and have a great day!
-nancy

 

[Willie T]

Why is it arrogant? Why is it self-centered?

Do you think you will EVER hear a Calvinist entertain the notion that THEY just might be one of the unfortunate ones who weren't "chosen?" (It ain't gonna happen.)