Agreed. Too many these days think one just has to believe (whatever that means to them) and they'll be saved forever.
They don't bother with the "catch".
Is Calvinism a Cult?
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They don't bother with the "catch".
I feel like the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum seems like a good place for this discussion. So, I'm wondering if anyone here thinks that Calvinists having the mindset that Calvinism is the gospel, that only Calvinists have the real Jesus, and that only Calvinists are true Christians would constitute a cult-like mindset for those that have it?
For example, here is a list of quotes from Calvinists who seem to me to profess such a cult-like view of their Calvinism:
Maurice Roberts, on the back-cover of The Potter’s Freedom, by James White, wrote, “In a manner reminiscent of Luther demolishing Erasmus, James White grinds the Semi-Pelagianism of Dr. Geisler to fine powder, not in the spirit of triumphalism, but knowing that all Arminianism is as hostile to the true gospel as it is friendly to a reviving Roman Catholicism.”
The description on the back-cover of The Potter’s Freedom says, “This book is written as a reply to Dr. Geisler, but it is much more: it is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed, it is a defense of the very gospel itself!”
Arthur Custance said, “It is questionable whether a dogmatic theology which is not Calvinistic is truly Christian.”
He also said, “Calvinism is the Gospel and to teach Calvinism is in fact to preach the Gospel.”
Kenneth Talbot and W. Gary Crampton said, “any compromise of Calvinism is a step towards humanism.”
They also said, “The apostolic doctrine was that of Reformed Theology.”
Loraine Boettner said, “There is no consistent stopping place between Calvinism and atheism.”
and, “The doctrine that men are saved only through the unmerited love and grace of God finds its full and honest expression only in the doctrines of Calvinism.”
William Cunningham said, “Calvinism is just the full exposition of and development of the sum and substance of what is represented in Scripture as done for the salvation of sinners by the three persons of the Godhead.”
David Engelsma said, “Calvinism is the Gospel. Its outstanding doctrines are simply the truths that make up the Gospel.”
Charles Spurgeon has said many funny things about Calvinism, such as, “It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, nothing else.”
and, “There is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism.”
and, “The longer I live the clearer does it appear that John Calvin’s system is the nearest to perfection.”
Rienk Kuiper said, “It is my firm conviction that the only theology contained in the Bible is the Reformed theology.”
R. K. McGregor Wright said, “Arminianism thought is best understood historically, as a compromise of the Reformation gospel with the humanistic motif of the autonomy of the human consciousness flowing out of the ancient pagan learning that had just been rediscovered in the Renaissance.”
Alexander Leighton said this about Arminianism, “The last and greatest monster of the man of sin; the elixir of Anti-Christianism.”
William MacLean wrote in his book Arminianism: Another Gospel, “Arminianism is the very essence of Popery.” Not potpourri, but Popery, as in the Pope.
He also wrote that Arminianism “appears as the gospel of Christ, but in reality is ‘another gospel.’”
Duane Spencer said that “Arminianism is but a refinement of Pelegianism.”
Grover Gunn said, “Arminianism teaches salvation mostly of grace but not all of grace.”
Edwin Palmer said, “I believe some Arminians may be born-again Christians.” How gracious of Mr. Palmer.
According to Milburn Cockrell, “The Christ of Arminianism is not the Christ of the New Testament.”
He also claims that “Christ and His apostles” were Calvinists!
Joseph Wilson said that “no one has ever been or ever will be saved in the way taught by Arminianism.”
I'm honestly not trying to insult or offend any Calvinists (at least, not right now). I'm just wondering if other people see this as a cult-like mindset, or if they think it's perfectly orthodox and acceptable to view your own theological brethren as the only true Christians. Thanks.
Calvinism is not a cult. They worship God just like all other Christians do.
Just because it's a God I'm totally unfamiliar with does not make them a cult.
Truth
Well-Known Member
As I said I am not at all familiar with this denom, But if it is in fact a following after a man or mans Ideal's then they all fall into a ditch!
Nancy
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TheHolyBookEnds
Well-Known Member
I personally think another religious mindset beginning with "Ca ..." is the real cult, and identified in Daniel and Revelation and in the epistles of Paul and John.
Calvinsim is a broad range of beliefs. Not all is erroneous (which means he had some truth), and some expanded way beyond what Calvin actually said and taught. I am actually almost done reading the History of the Reformation in the Time of Calvin right now, and on the last half of the final book.
On matters erroneous, for instance, the whole OSAS thing is erroneous, as the OT and NT demonstrate -
Eternal Security
Eternal Security
Eternal Security
Eternal Security
They didn't even attempt to refute what was given.
Calvinism is not a cult, but a serious distortion of Gospel truth.
Amen to that!
How does one come up with a concept of God that plays with us as if we were little toys?
And they WORSHIP this God.
I've said that I believe it's very close to (or maybe is) blasphemy.
Here's my take on the matter. Logic is true if the starting point is true. And in that case it will parallel biblical truth. I believe this explains the unchristian behaviors during the time of the Reformation. You could hold the truth without being genuinely born again, all because of a correct starting point and logic. In this case the doctrine of Total Depravity as framed by Augustine being the starting point. And based on Total Depravity the of the 5 points of Calvinism eventually emerged in the Synod of Dordt.
I'm not a Calvinist, but I believe the first 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism are helpful in understanding the bible. Total Depravity, Unconditional (arbitrary) Election, and Limited Atonement.
But at the same time I believe God deposited the truth throughout Christendom. And no single denomination has all the truth. But if we look far and wide, truth is there for the taking. So I embrace many creeds and persuasions.
I'm not a Calvinist, but I believe the first 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism are helpful in understanding the bible. Total Depravity, Unconditional (arbitrary) Election, and Limited Atonement.
But at the same time I believe God deposited the truth throughout Christendom. And no single denomination has all the truth. But if we look far and wide, truth is there for the taking. So I embrace many creeds and persuasions.
Interesting. I totally agree with you that one of the 5 points came to be understood but to allow it to make sense the other 4 also had to be worked out and accepted. I think it might have started with perseverance of the saints, or eternal security, but it's just my own thinking.
I don't, however, understand how the first 3 could help you in understanding the bible.
The first TOTAL DEPRAVITY is the sin nature. We are depraved, but not TOTALLY depraved to the point where we cannot, of our own volition, come to a saving knowledge of God.
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION: What does that help you to understand?
LIMITED ATONEMENT: Ditto.
Just curious.
If one is really totally depraved, they hate God and reject him. So God in his mercy must choose to save them. If these chosen are really totally depraved, God would not be good if he saved any. Goodness would punish them instead. So in his mercy he took his own wrath in their place as Jesus on the cross. This enabled God to give them new hearts that love him and hate sin. Hearts that want to live holy lives.
The way it works out for you is, if you believe, it is because Jesus paid for your sins on the cross. Had he not, you would hate him and want nothing to do with him because of total depravity.
For me, the word "cult" has many conflicted definitions and as been so loaded as a smear word for decades as to be pretty rendered useless for having an effective conversation. Hence I don't use it at all.
Now, would I say that (in my opinion) Calvinism is the ultimate Truth that Christ taught? No. Far from it. In fact I PASSIONATELY disagree with it on every level.
Now, would I say that some Calvinism believers exhibit social behavior such a exclusive-group-think, forcible pressure to only teach this one view, and shunning/slandering other perspectives and people? Yes, some do. But I've also seen those behaviors in most other ideological camps somewhere, so it's hardly a unique thing to them.
Now, would I say that (in my opinion) Calvinism is the ultimate Truth that Christ taught? No. Far from it. In fact I PASSIONATELY disagree with it on every level.
Now, would I say that some Calvinism believers exhibit social behavior such a exclusive-group-think, forcible pressure to only teach this one view, and shunning/slandering other perspectives and people? Yes, some do. But I've also seen those behaviors in most other ideological camps somewhere, so it's hardly a unique thing to them.
Marymog
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- Mar 7, 2017
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Hi Sword,
Maybe @Brother Jason wants to save the Calvinist from a potential heretical belief by planting the seed of what he believes to be true into their life?
Mary
The idea of total depravity is....well itself depraved. That's a dark view that colours everything as evil. So if a person smiles at me...I'm supposed to assume an evil intent? Utter depravity.
So then often it is the people themselves who are so depraved that they think others are all like them?
That is a doctrine I call...projection.
There is BOTH good and evil intent in the world. total depravity is only for those who are themselves depraved and are unable to see anything past that.
if your eye is dark....everything is dark.
Often, the doctrines a person adopts are descriptive of that person. They choose a doctrine because they identify with it.
Total depravity is that NO one can do anything good or pleasing to God unless God does it through them ...just like you believe. EVERYTHING is evil....except what happens in church? Only Christians can smile and mean it???
That doesn't come from the bible...but the depraved mind of certain people. it is a dark worldview and very religious.
Spiritually dead people cannot do anything good for the right reason.
That is a lie... a depraved lie at that. Not found in the bible.
Jesus marveled at the faith of a centurion who killed people for a living. He pleased God with his unconverted faith...a faith built around military authority.
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10) Righteousness = doing good things for the right reason.
You don't understand the statement.
Jesus said "without Me you can do NOTHING". Nothing ETERNAL that is.
The same goes for righteousness. A human being cannot do anything eternal ...without spiritual life.
But anybody can love others as themselves. it just takes a little compassion. maybe you have never had this? But this colours your view of the truth.
Again a person judges AS HE IS....not righteously. So you are unable to judge righteously. So the statement comes back to bite you like a double-edged sword.
Nobody treats others, especially enemies as their equal. If they did they would be penniless.
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