Is Drinking a sin?

[Ferris Bueller]

Perhaps we should only 'practise' mixed swimming in secret, because some believe mixed swimming is sin.

Yeah, that's so much like the scourge of alcohol on our society.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Keep it a secret...that is funny. It would cause more problems than it helps.

Romans 14 is pretty clear about this. I don't think Paul thought doing that would cause more problems than it's worth.

 

[robert derrick]

I've been on both sides of the issue and I've come to the conclusion that here in America because alcohol is so abused, and so pervasively, it is best for Christians to not take a stand for it. It's just too big of a weakness to so many people in our society that I think it best for the Christian who wants to drink alcohol to keep it a secret and not be a stumbling block to people who are being destroyed by it.

I've been on both sides of the issue.

I've remained on one side, since there is no issue with God: drinking alcohol is not a sin.

Christians to not take a stand for it.

We don't take a stand for drinking and eating to declare it good to all the world. We take a stand for our liberty against them that condemn us unjustly.

Going to stop eating publicly, because of all the obese? How about no open shopping so as not to encourage overspending and the massive indebtedness of average people?

If not, you are false in your principle of judgment.

it is best for Christians

Thank you God. Anything else we need to know what is 'best' for us to do or not to do?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In a way, I would say 'legalism' is practised by those who haven't a clue what teaching the law is all about, and have absolutely no good legal mind required to do it.

You do know what legalism is, right? It's not about the do's and don'ts of Christianity. Christians drinking alcohol has nothing to do with legalism. It has nothing to do with trying to earn one's salvation through what we do and don't do.

 

[robert derrick]

Yeah, that's so much like the scourge of alcohol on our society.

How much fornications results from it? Ever been to a beach party during Spring Break?

The real problem on this thread is people entering in with nothing but opinion.

The question is what does God say sin is, not what people like to think about things.

 

[robert derrick]

You do know what legalism is, right? It's not about the do's and don'ts of Christianity. Christians drinking alcohol has nothing to do with legalism. It has nothing to do with trying to earn one's salvation through what we do and don't do.

Christians drinking alcohol has nothing to do with legalism.

Exactly.

Legalism is Christians putting out personal conscience and opinion as fact, and then presuming to make it 'what is best' for all.

If you would headline everything you say with the truth: "This is only my opinion and my conscience, not God's judgement nor Scriptural rule", then you would at least be honest about yourself.

Although, this thread is not about our opinions of personal conscience, but about what thus saith the Lord about it in Scripture.

 

[robert derrick]

What is that on your arm? asked Fred.
It's alcohol spots. Said George.

Colossians 2:16 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—"

Matthew 15:11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”

Now see how strongly you feel about alcohol? This is exactly what I am talking about. All this focus on something that is not a sin. What would Christianity be if they avoided the things that were real sins and focused on what they should be doing?

In Christ's time the Pharisees added to the burden of the Mosaic Law and made it worse. Over the last 2000 years, Christian men have done the same thing...just backwards....not a list of laws, but man-made sins. Making a list of sins...in affect...is the same as making laws.

The truth will set you free....remember that?
Would you go to a local bar and buy a round, talk to them about the Good News and invite them to your church picnic?
Christ would....
Be good and do good.
To be good....first you have to know what the real sins are.
Be good and do good....use Christ as your example.
Take a walk with Christ.

You are exemplying what real strength in Christ and mature knowledge of Scripture is all about:

You know the difference between good and evil according to Scripture, and exercise your knowledge wisely according to the situation at hand.

To many determine for themselves the difference between sin or not, without Scripture, and then distribute their fervent zero-tolerance policies upon others to do the same.

The scourge that had Christ crucified were those making up traditions and commandments without God and judging and condemning others by it, including Jesus.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Legalism is Christians putting out personal conscience and opinion as fact, and then presuming to make it 'what is best' for all.

No, that's not legalism. That's called 'having an opinion'. And in this case, Romans 14 is not man's opinion.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Although, this thread is not about our opinions of personal conscience, but about what thus saith the Lord about it in Scripture.

Exactly......

15If your brother is distressed by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother, for whom Christ died.16Do not allow what you consider good, then, to be spoken of as evil.
21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything to cause your brother to stumble. 22Keep your belief about such matters between yourself and God. Romans 14:15-16, Romans 14:21-22

 

[Ferris Bueller]

To many determine for themselves the difference between sin or not, without Scripture, and then distribute their fervent zero-tolerance policies upon others to do the same.

The scourge that had Christ crucified were those making up traditions and commandments without God and judging and condemning others by it, including Jesus.

You're missing the point by a mile. Apart from the obvious sin of getting drunk, this isn't as much about whether drinking alcohol is a sin or not as much as it is letting your freedom to drink alcohol destroy another person. THAT'S where the sin lies in this matter of alcohol. That's not legalism, and that's not man's opinion.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are exemplying what real strength in Christ and mature knowledge of Scripture is all about

Mature knowledge is not knowing whether or not you can taste alcohol. Mature knowledge is knowing not to destroy another person by what you consider good. That's true spiritual maturity. That's what matters.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How much fornications results from it? Ever been to a beach party during Spring Break?

Ever see how fast a beach party comes to an end when there's no alcohol around to fuel those fornications?

The real problem on this thread is people entering in with nothing but opinion.

The question is what does God say sin is, not what people like to think about things.

You must have me confused with someone who has stated that drinking alcohol is a sin. You should be careful to address your posts to whom they apply.

 

[robert derrick]

Yeah, that's so much like the scourge of alcohol on our society.

on our society.

I see our main difference now. I've been talking about God, His Word, and His people.

The society you must be talking about is not mine.

I endeavor to love all neighbors as myself, and to live peaceably as much as possible in this wicked world, but as a Christian them that know not God are neither His nor my society, and I am certainly not a caretaker for it.

I truly am a Pilgrim without roots in the world, and I thank God for it.

So, you can say what you like about your society and your opinions and judgments with it, no problem.

But, if you want to enter in about God and His Word and His people, then that would be even better.

 

[Grailhunter]

The only problem going on here is the same old problem ever since God gave law to His people:

His people keeping mixing up what they think they ought to do when it comes to personal faith, with what they then conclude all other people of God ought to do.

In a way, I would say 'legalism' is practised by those who haven't a clue what teaching the law is all about, and have absolutely no good legal mind required to do it.

So they start suggesting foolish things like Christians exercising their liberty in the law of God to begin skulking around corners and doing so in the shadows of darkness. I.e. keep it a secret.

Yours is Scripture and perfect. We agree according to Scripture we must not destroy the weak with openly flaunting our liberty...within reason.

We don't go our of our way to 'impose' our liberty on others, but neither do we hide in secret to 'practise' our liberty.

But people have so many problems with so many things that it would be impossible to know or even keep up with all of them.

Are we supposed to walk around in complete liberty of life, completely oblivious to 'voices' in the air, if someone insists they keeping hearing voice in the air?

Perhaps we should only 'practise' mixed swimming in secret, because some believe mixed swimming is sin.

The truth will set you free. Boldly march off smartly and do good.
The issue with drinking is one of many.
2000 years of competition as to who is holier. I am holier than you because I don't do this! No! I am holier than you because I do not do that! Before long Christianity became the lazy man's religion...your rightness with God dependent on what you do not do. A do nothing religion. I checked in for salvation but that is it, Man!

It is important to know what the real sins are, but still doers get into more trouble than those that sit like a bump on a log. But I say on that journey with Christ, exhaust yourself doing good. And you will mess up from time to time, but Christ will be there to pick you and dust you off and send you on your way....because He likes what you been doing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

2000 years of competition as to who is holier. I am holier than you because I don't do this! No! I am holier than you because I do not do that!

I just don't see that as a problem in the (real) church anymore. It may have been 40 years ago, but it's not now.

 

[Grailhunter]

My point is, you don't know who has a weakness for alcohol and who does not. Don't find out the hard way and have it held to your account by God.

Until God gives us a crystal ball we cannot know a lot of things and we will not be held accountable.
A lady wearing a long dress missed a spot and a guy seeing the skin of her ankle goes hog wild and runs out and rapes someone.
She is not going to be held accountable.
Too many people with too many problems...we can only deal with some of what we know.

 

[robert derrick]

You're missing the point by a mile. Apart from the obvious sin of getting drunk, this isn't as much about whether drinking alcohol is a sin or not as much as it is letting your freedom to drink alcohol destroy another person. THAT'S where the sin lies in this matter of alcohol. That's not legalism, and that's not man's opinion.

Now, here we agree. And since I opened the thread specifically about what God says about alcohol, I did not quickly understand how you had changed the topic to one of your own.

And so, you agree alcohol is not a sin before God.

Just be careful about declaring what is 'best' for all Christians to do in matters of personal conscience.

In meantime, I will start another thread on wounding consciences and judging others, and I would be glad to see you there.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Until God gives us a crystal ball we cannot know a lot of things and we will not be held accountable.

The point is, you don't need a crystal ball to see that many, many people have a weakness for alcohol. Romans 14 tells us we are acting in love when we don't let our freedoms destroy another person, particularly people in the church. Given that so many people struggle with alcohol these days, the counsel of Romans 14 is all the more relevant and applicable.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And so, you agree alcohol is not a sin before God.

Sometimes it's a sin, sometimes it is not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just be careful about declaring what is 'best' for all Christians to do in matters of personal conscience.

Romans 14 is best.