Is God finished with Israel?

[Davy]

What does the actual Bible text say? Are you suggesting that John was delusional?

REVELATION 7: THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
1. Of the tribe of Juda[h] were sealed twelve thousand.
2. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
3. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
4. Of the tribe of As[h]er were sealed twelve thousand.
5. Of the tribe of N[a]pthali[m] were sealed twelve thousand.
6. Of the tribe of Manasse[h] were sealed twelve thousand.
7. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
8. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.
9. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
10. Of the tribe of Z[e]bulon were sealed twelve thousand.
11. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand.
12. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

You reveal lack of study in Bible history per 1 Kings 11 forward through 2 Kings 17 about God dividing the nation of Israel in Solomon's days into two separate kingdoms.

Most of today's Jews are either ignorant of the history of the two separate 'houses', or they simply try to hide it. Which are you?

 

[Davy]

If we read again in 2 Samuel 7, we'll see that God was promising an eternal throne and eternal kingdom to David's descendant. I think even David didn't cotton on to that, because the gospel had not yet been revealed. One key to understanding scripture is to be "comparing spiritual with spiritual"....another key is to understand that "He speaks to us in parables" (types/shadows/similitudes).

Notice also in that same chapter that David's tabernacle is NOT a Temple. If we see a messiah figure coming to dwell and rule from a physical Temple, that is one way to know that it isn't the true Messiah. The idea of a temple to worship God was a pagan idea to start with, He allowed Israel to build Him one, but that was only His permissive will, just like He allowed Israel to have a king like the pagans had (Saul). God/Christ dwelling/tabernacling with man is in the temple of our vessel and in His church, by His Spirit, not in a grand building made with the hands of men. We are His temple.

Where do you get a lot of those man-made ideas, from your own mind, or somewhere else? I suspect somewhere else.

The Millennial temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47 will be a literal temple that Jesus will build when He comes, and He will enter in and out of it as written there too. Zechariah 6 shows THE BRANCH (Jesus) will build the temple, and sit upon His throne and be both a king and priest upon His throne, which can ONLY apply to Jesus Christ, KING of kings, and LORD of lords.

Only after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign will there be no more temple, as written in Revelation 21. But for His future "thousand years" reign, ON EARTH, there certainly will be, and God's River of the Waters of Life is going to flow out from that Sanctuary as written in Ezekiel 47. (I bet you've never even read that.)

 

[covenantee]

Can you cite an example where it says that Gentiles are included in the remnant? I don't think you will find one.

The word "remnant" is only used twice in the New Testament, both of them in Romans 11 and both referring to a remaining fraction of Israel.

Romans 9:27
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved;

Here Isaiah speaks of the sons of Israel, which is understood to indicate Jacob's lineage. Isaiah remarks that Jacob will have so many direct descendants that their number will be like the sand of the sea. But only a small fraction of those will be saved. Paul quotes this passage in support of his contention that God's word concerning Israel does not apply to all of Israel's descendants. Romans 9:6

Paul can NOT use Isaiah's word to support his contention that Gentiles are included among those whom God is saving. Isaiah isn't saying anything about Gentiles in that passage.

The remnant was comprised of Israelites.

Israelites were comprised of Jews and Gentiles. Genesis 17:12; Exodus 12:48-49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I think you mischaracterized Replacement theology, which actually teaches that the church replaces Israel.

The Body of Christ replaces the servants of God ?

The Church is the Body or Christ, The Body of Christ has Christ Jesus as it's Head.
The Servants of God are Israel, Israel is the Servants of God.

Being the Body of Christ is serving Christ Jesus = that one is a Servant of God = Israel.

When the disciples of Jesus came to know that Jesus was the Christ ? and This was when he went to Heaven ? and they got the message the lights went on ? ok ! they became the body of Christ, as they were truly the Servants of God = Israel. Now as to the rest of the Jews ? well they were never worthy of Israel at all in fact, they were under the power of this world ?

Being a Jew is much like only being water baptised, one who is welcomed under the roof of a Tribe ? but that's not the point ! the point is to become worthy of God ? and we see that Jesus called one dude a true Israelite in fact and his name was Nathaniel, so he was worthy in fact if you believe Jesus, not to mention Jesus said of Nathaniel what he was going to see ! Do you all know what it was Nathaniel was going to see ?
Nathaniel would see such because he was worthy of being a Israelite in fact ! Jesus did not say such to every Jew, because they were not worthy.

Claiming one is a Christian does not mean that you are going to Heaven, one has to be worthy ? For what is it that Jesus said they will say ? and Jesus says I never knew you ? because They have another Jesus ? they are of this world ! not of the Kingdom of God.

 

[farouk]

We always need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying when we read scripture.

This is why it is so important to read Scripture prayerfully.

 

[Timtofly]

That means... the 144,000 represent CHRIST'S ELECT of HIS CHURCH, because we know the unbelieving Jews are NOT sealed by The Holy Spirit under Christ Jesus, for they still reject Jesus of Nazareth as their Savior.

These 144k are not sealed by the Holy Spirit. They are sealed by an angel.

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

 

[Davy]

These 144k are not sealed by the Holy Spirit. They are sealed by an angel.

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

Really? Why then does the Revelation 7:2 verse say they are 'sealed' with "the seal of the living God"???


Rev 9:3-5
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV

Why don't you try actually READING the Scripture, instead looking for some way to try and trap me like the hypocrites would do?

 

[Timtofly]

Really? Why then does the Revelation 7:2 verse say they are 'sealed' with "the seal of the living God"???


Rev 9:3-5
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV

Why don't you try actually READING the Scripture, instead looking for some way to try and trap me like the hypocrites would do?

Which verse points out the angel handed the seal of God over to the Holy Spirit?

Do you not see these 144k are sealed by an angel? These are not the church sealed with the Holy Spirit. They do not have the Holy Spirit descend on them like a tongue of fire. This is not a day of Pentecost event. An angel places this seal in their foreheads. That leaves a mark in contrast to later when those who follow Satan are sealed with the mark of the beast. This removes their names from the Lamb's book of life. The 144k are sealed with a mark proving their names can never be removed from the Lamb's book of life. When the 144k walk among those on earth, they will stand out like a beacon because of that seal in their foreheads. They also will no longer be in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. But not glorified, just marked as set apart for this time of tribulation. They are the tribulation disciples of Christ the King, just like the original 12 disciples went every where with Christ the King in the first century. Jesus is now dealing with every nation on earth. Not just Galilee, and Judaea.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations."

The 144k are with the Lamb on the earth. They are the same saints in Revelation 13.

So between the 6th Seal and 7th Trumpet, they cannot be harmed. When Satan is handed that throne in Jerusalem for 42 months, they go with Christ to this place:

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."

This is not on earth. This is the place they wait until Revelation 19:

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

Now the 144k are called the armies of heaven. That probably includes all the angels again. So Armageddon brings them back down to earth to reclaim the throne in Jerusalem, after the rest of Adam's dead corruptible flesh is removed from off the earth. Then the Millennium starts with the 144k, the sheep, the wheat, and those beheaded. All part of that army returning to earth for the Millennium Kingdom. All tribulation firstfruits, not the church.

The church is glorified as sons of God in Paradise, waiting for the New Jerusalem after the 1,000 year reign.

The church was sealed by the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost soon after the Cross and ascension. They were the first fruits of the 3.5 year work of the Messiah on earth. Including the 3,000 from all Nations.

The same will happen during the time as King to finish off the 70th week of Daniel 9. The 144k are the disciples. The sheep and wheat represent the 3,000 sealed on the Day of Pentecost. The only reason they retreat to mount Sion is to wait for those 42 months given to Satan. If no 42 months. Then the 7th Trumpet brings an end to Adam's dead corruptible flesh in Revelation 14. There is no third woe, Satan given control. The midst of the week abomination mentioned in Daniel 9:27 does not happen. The Millennium will start immediately, not postponed until Armageddon.

But those 144k are sealed and changed and cannot be harmed by the events of the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. They do the Lamb's bidding on earth just like the 12 disciples did, but on a greater scale, the whole earth. That is why there are 144k and not just 12.

 

[Keraz]

The Body of Christ replaces the servants of God ?

The Church is the Body or Christ, The Body of Christ has Christ Jesus as it's Head.
The Servants of God are Israel, Israel is the Servants of God.

Being the Body of Christ is serving Christ Jesus = that one is a Servant of God = Israel.

I liked what you said about being worthy in #184, but I disagree with your idea that Israel, namely the Jewish State of Israel, are God's servants. [Or that they will be]
This is never prophesied to happen.

ISRAEL - THE UNFAITHFUL WOMAN
Jeremiah 3:20 Like a woman who has been unfaithful, so you, Israel were unfaithful to Me.

Jeremiah 31:15-16 Lamentation is heard in Ramah, Rachel weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted because they are no more.
These are the words of the Lord to her; cease your weeping. There will be a reward for your toil, your children will return to the Land.

Rachel is the spiritual mother of the 10 Northern tribes of Israel.

Galatians 4:22-31 Abraham had 2 sons, one to a slave woman, the other to a free woman. Ishmael born in the natural, Isaac through Gods promise. The two women stand for two covenants. Hagar and her children are of the Sinai covenant and represent Jerusalem of today, for she and her children are born into slavery.
But the Heavenly Jerusalem is the free woman, she is our mother. For Scripture says; Isaiah 54:1 Sing, barren woman, who never bore a child. For the deserted wife will have more children than she who has a husband.

Now you, my Christian friends, like Isaac, are children of Gods promise. But just as in those days, the natural born son persecuted the spiritual son, for the son of the slave shall not share the inheritance with the son of the free woman. You see then, my friends, we are no slaves children, our mother is the free woman.
Galatians 5:1 Christ has set us free. Stand firm- do not submit again to the yoke of slavery.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I liked what you said about being worthy in #184, but I disagree with your idea that Israel, namely the Jewish State of Israel, are God's servants. [Or that they will be]
This is never prophesied to happen.

ISRAEL - THE UNFAITHFUL WOMAN
Jeremiah 3:20 Like a woman who has been unfaithful, so you, Israel were unfaithful to Me.

Jeremiah 31:15-16 Lamentation is heard in Ramah, Rachel weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted because they are no more.
These are the words of the Lord to her; cease your weeping. There will be a reward for your toil, your children will return to the Land.

Rachel is the spiritual mother of the 10 Northern tribes of Israel.

Galatians 4:22-31 Abraham had 2 sons, one to a slave woman, the other to a free woman. Ishmael born in the natural, Isaac through Gods promise. The two women stand for two covenants. Hagar and her children are of the Sinai covenant and represent Jerusalem of today, for she and her children are born into slavery.
But the Heavenly Jerusalem is the free woman, she is our mother. For Scripture says; Isaiah 54:1 Sing, barren woman, who never bore a child. For the deserted wife will have more children than she who has a husband.

Now you, my Christian friends, like Isaac, are children of Gods promise. But just as in those days, the natural born son persecuted the spiritual son, for the son of the slave shall not share the inheritance with the son of the free woman. You see then, my friends, we are no slaves children, our mother is the free woman.
Galatians 5:1 Christ has set us free. Stand firm- do not submit again to the yoke of slavery.

I do not have any regard for the so called State that mongers claim to be Israel at all.

The RCC claims to be Israel by inheritance and always did so ! Pope John Paul 2 pointed such out in fact a thousand times. not to mention the MSM in Australia ranted on and on as to this issue for years everyday on TV claiming that Pope JP2 did not know what he was talking about !
The MSM called the shots on what was the deal ! that must go down !
But Pope JP2 said that he did not recognise the State as Biblical Israel ?
Now as the years went by the MSM got Pope JP2 to recognise the State as a identity being a State ? but Pope JP2 never acknowledged that this point made did not concern it being Biblical the Israel at all ! but the MSM just made out that the Pope give consent to such being Biblical Israel, but that was in fact an act of Slander ! but nonetheless the MSM boasted a win and covered up the Popes intent on the subject in fact, not to mention the MSM got away with this massive fraud !

Not to mention that the real Jews who are worthy of the OT and the top educated ranks of such all say that the State is not Israel in fact, but that they hope it will become Israel some time in the future ?
Now the MSM only pushes one side of the story, they do not have any regard for the Jews at all in fact, in regards to the OT in fact.
Now the MSM is owned by Jews but they are not worthy of the OT at all, they are of the ones who dominated over the Vineyard ! who crept in unawares ? The do not give a rats about God ! or Christ Jesus. They are in the business of this world ! that Jesus informed us about, that was full of Deceptions and Delusions ! who better to mislead the people that a Whore like the Media ?

People who look to the Land ? the State ? because some con-artist painted such as Israel ? are not Saved people at all ! for they do not know Jesus Christ in fact ! They seek such because they are not found ! because they are not truly born again, they are still of this world that Jesus pointed out, such is like one going back to their vomit ! Such a people are rejecting Christ Jesus in fact, for the Jews who were lost ! the ones who turned their back on Jesus in the day and because they were on a worldly Trip ! thinking that it was they who were bringing in the Kingdom ! but Not Christ Jesus brings in the Kingdom of God in fact, not Man !

There is only one thing that separates Man from God ! and history proves this, the Lost have not Christ Jesus, for they do not abide in him ! He will say to such that he never knew you ? because you never knew him ! now as to faith the Bible points out, oh you of little faith ! So that fact is that you need the faith that can move mountains in fact, a big difference hey ! This faith is in God ! not Mans works, that is of this world.

Christ Jesus has everything for one needs, everything through Christ Jesus is worthy and everything outside of Christ Jesus is not worthy. So one needs to be in Jesus.

My religious dupe mate, claims look they the Jews are coming back into Israel and that's all he can see, he puts his faith in what he can see ? with Carnal eyes ! I said listen Lord Rothschild's has pointed out this was all their own creation. but not to mention it was they that played the cards that they got killed the 6 million Jews who got in Rothschild way because they were a huge threat to his plans. And we have seen on TV when Pope Frances gave himself to Lord Rothschild as his personal Slave openly ! I said to the RC People look ! what did you just see taking place in that ? Idiots ! they do not even know what took place ! Morons ! total morons ! why is it that they could not see ? well they are carnal religious dupes, just as stupid as the followers of Hitler or Stalin etc spiritually blind dupes. Dead to Christ Jesus and wallowing in Sin !

 

[Keraz]

I do not have any regard for the so called State that mongers claim to be Israel at all.

Very good.
The rest of your post is a bit of a rant, but your surely right about the Rothchild's founding of Jewish Israel and their communistic ideals.
I am saddened to see so many good Christian people believing that those Jews will be redeemed and converted to Christianity. The Prophetic Word does not say that will ever happen. They are reprobate and recidivist, a people whose religious beliefs, if any; are not Biblical at all.

I figured that MSM means Main Stream Media.

 

[Davy]

Which verse points out the angel handed the seal of God over to the Holy Spirit?

Do you not see these 144k are sealed by an angel? These are not the church sealed with the Holy Spirit.

The Revelation 7 chapter is clear that the 144,000 were to be SEALED with GOD's SEAL prior to the four winds blowing. And all you want to do is point to the angel???

And since you don't understand what that SEALING means per Scripture, here is an example Paul gave the Church at Ephesus, and it was WAY PAST the time of Pentecost when Paul gave that...

Eph 1:12-14
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
KJV


Therefore, those who believe on The Father through the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ have the Promise to be SEALED by the Holy Spirit of promise! It is that simple.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Very good.
The rest of your post is a bit of a rant, but your surely right about the Rothchild's founding of Jewish Israel and their communistic ideals.
I am saddened to see so many good Christian people believing that those Jews will be redeemed and converted to Christianity. The Prophetic Word does not say that will ever happen. They are reprobate and recidivist, a people whose religious beliefs, if any; are not Biblical at all.

I figured that MSM means Main Stream Media.

Yes Main Stream Media.

What Jews ? I do not see any so called Jews any more worthy than anyone who rejects Christ Jesus.
To me anyone who under the power of this world is the same deal regardless.

Who can claim to be a Jew is a load of nonsense, just how does such a claim have any regards valid !

You know that I have a Jewish sir name ? but so what, I know my blood line I think it goes back to early 1300 tree on my mums side, I do not have the Tree in my possession and you know what I don't care for such, I am me ! that's all ! my cousins etc etc they are themselves, I don't idolise them, they are who they are, end of story regardless, I do not try and stand on their merits. don't worry I am impressed with many of them and good on them I am proud of such a fact. but I do not try to steal their thunder. As I am just me ! I am content with who I am. I do not need any thing more in myself as I am Saved ! Born again ! Jesus Christ is number one in my life, but not Religion, I gave that up for Christ Jesus.
All religion is of the same worldly trash foundations ? but when Christ Jesus comes into ones life, that is another thing entirely and where one is at home with Christ Jesus abiding in you, not religion, even an atheist is religious in fact, regardless of what he may claim.

All this nonsense about Jew is futile ! what is the real issue is to be truly born again in fact, because then you are of the Kingdom of God in fact, that's the point ! fact remains that anyone regardless, who is of this world is lost and their is a great gulf between one in the Kingdom of God and them who are of this world.
The truly Saved know this fact ! One has been transformed ! one is not seeking Christ Jesus, because you are found !
I am not looking for the second coming because I am found, Saved ! one can not be born again twice of the Holy Spirit, now can they ?
If one could ? one would not be Saved in the first place, now would they.
Oh yes,whoever survives the second coming will be saved regardless, they will have their eyes opened for them to see, but they will learn the hard way ? remember the pricks of the Yoke ? well that's the easy way.

Is God finished with Israel ? Never ! why ! because Israel abides in Him, they are the servants of God ! now as to them who were Jesus disciples they had faith in him but they were only Saved when Jesus went to Heaven, they were worthy of the fact that they were the servants of God = Israel.
Two people were called a servant of God ( Israel ) in the Bible, Jacob by an Angel and Nathaniel by Jesus. one should take note of why ?

 

[Timtofly]

The Revelation 7 chapter is clear that the 144,000 were to be SEALED with GOD's SEAL prior to the four winds blowing. And all you want to do is point to the angel???

And since you don't understand what that SEALING means per Scripture, here is an example Paul gave the Church at Ephesus, and it was WAY PAST the time of Pentecost when Paul gave that...

Eph 1:12-14
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
KJV


Therefore, those who believe on The Father through the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ have the Promise to be SEALED by the Holy Spirit of promise! It is that simple.

Yes your point deals with the first century church, and the church for the last 1992 years.

Revelation 7 is about after the Second Coming.

You are applying the first coming like the Amil do, and are calling the Second Coming the first coming, like they do.

They call the first resurrection an event in the first century. You call the angel sealing the 144k, an event that happened in the first century.

John pointed out the angel. Get on John's case. Explain to John that he is wrong, and you are right.

 

[Davy]

Yes your point deals with the first century church, and the church for the last 1992 years.

Revelation 7 is about after the Second Coming.

So The Holy Spirit is NO MORE AT SOME POINT?

Sorry, your views are just WHACK! CRAZY!

 

[prism]

No God will not wipe Israel off the map…


Zechariah 14:2-3 KJV
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [3] Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

 

[Timtofly]

So The Holy Spirit is NO MORE AT SOME POINT?

Sorry, your views are just WHACK! CRAZY!

I never said no more. The Holy Spirit is not necessary during the Millennium, because it is too late for dead people, and there are no sinners in the Millennium to redeem.

You are a redeemed sinner. Those living in the Millennium are redeemed and fully righteous, without spot or blemish. They will have no clue what sin is. Isaiah 65:16-18

"That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy."

 

[quietthinker]

Is God finished with Israel?
I doubt it, but......is Israel finished with God?

 

[Keraz]

Is God finished with Israel?
I doubt it, but......is Israel finished with God?

The Israel which Jesus lived in at His first Advent never even got started with the only One way to Salvation. The few Jews who did become Christians brought the Gospel to the lost tribes of the House of Israel. WE Christians are the successful result. Matthew 15:24
The House of Judah has continued in their rejection up to now. Many Prophesies tell how the Lord will punish them and only a remnant will survive.

 

[quietthinker]

The Israel which Jesus lived in at His first Advent never even got started with the only One way to Salvation. The few Jews who did become Christians brought the Gospel to the lost tribes of the House of Israel. WE Christians are the successful result. Matthew 15:24
The House of Judah has continued in their rejection up to now. Many Prophesies tell how the Lord will punish them and only a remnant will survive.

any man who refuses to walk will not walk