Is God finished with Israel?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,714
2,121
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In light of the discussions about Premillennialism,
I would like to share my video on the subject.

Enjoy

Is God finished with Israel.

Is God Finished with Israel

See also: The Fullness

Paul the apostle makes his case in Romans chapter 11, that God intends to keep all his promises to national Israel. Former covenants and promises are not broken; they remain in effect. This video takes us through Romans 11:11-15 where Paul argues that Israel did not fall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald David Bruno

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Is God finished with Israel.
No: He intends to virtually wipe out the Jewish State of Israel and only a remnant of those Jews who have accepted Jesus now will survive.
There are many scriptures which prove this.

But the true Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples, will be protected at that time; THEY will receive God's Blessings as THEY go to inhabit all of the holy Land. His believers, the ones who produce the fruit of the Spirit. Matthew 21:43, Ezekiel 34:11-16, +
 

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,714
2,121
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No: He intends to virtually wipe out the Jewish State of Israel and only a remnant of those Jews who have accepted Jesus now will survive.
There are many scriptures which prove this.

But the true Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples, will be protected at that time; THEY will receive God's Blessings as THEY go to inhabit all of the holy Land. His believers, the ones who produce the fruit of the Spirit. Matthew 21:43, Ezekiel 34:11-16, +
Okay. I can see your point. But unless Israel survives in tact as a distinct country, then wouldn't this defeat the scriptures? I think so. I also believe that God will wipe out the State of Israel as it currently exists, but I also believe that the nation will survive under new leadership, i.e. Jesus and his apostles. The Bible says that Jesus will return to Jerusalem and he will live there and the nations will come to seek out his wisdom. Right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,576
12,985
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is God finished with Israel?
OP^

No.
Much more to come, particularly during the Seals and Trumps of the Great Tribulation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CadyandZoe

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,561
1,868
113
72
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
In light of the discussions about Premillennialism,
I would like to share my video on the subject.

Enjoy

Is God finished with Israel.

Is God Finished with Israel

See also: The Fullness

Paul the apostle makes his case in Romans chapter 11, that God intends to keep all his promises to national Israel. Former covenants and promises are not broken; they remain in effect. This video takes us through Romans 11:11-15 where Paul argues that Israel did not fall.

What characteristics does God look for to identify His Israel?

1. DNA
2. Culture
3. Religion
4. Domicile
5. Faithfulness and obedience to His Son

With Scripture, of course.

Where in the videos is this question answered?
 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,175
933
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Okay. I can see your point. But unless Israel survives in tact as a distinct country, then wouldn't this defeat the scriptures? I think so. I also believe that God will wipe out the State of Israel as it currently exists, but I also believe that the nation will survive under new leadership, i.e. Jesus and his apostles. The Bible says that Jesus will return to Jerusalem and he will live there and the nations will come to seek out his wisdom. Right?
This is the issue that I battle with RandyK and others with.

God will not save, protect or restore any people who reject Jesus. God's grace has lasted for nearly 2000 years and the Jews still deny Jesus, they now face Judgment and punishment; their just deserts.

The new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, which will be established in all of the holy Land, will consist of every faithful Christian person. A few will be Jews. They will be a vast multitude, Revelation 7:9, praising the Lord for their deliverance as He is revealed to them. Revelation 14:1, 2 Thess 1:10
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,738
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Okay. I can see your point. But unless Israel survives in tact as a distinct country, then wouldn't this defeat the scriptures? I think so. I also believe that God will wipe out the State of Israel as it currently exists, but I also believe that the nation will survive under new leadership, i.e. Jesus and his apostles. The Bible says that Jesus will return to Jerusalem and he will live there and the nations will come to seek out his wisdom. Right?

You're on the right track. See God's Promise in Jeremiah 31:31-37.

In Romans 11, Apostle Paul showed that his brethren, the Jews (of the "house of Judah") were purposefully blinded by God's Hand, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. Then Paul shows their blindness will one day be removed, and thus all Israel will be saved, that is, all of the seed of Israel that turn to Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus gave us examples of that day when their blindness to The Gospel is removed, for they will wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them, because of the shame they will feel on that day (see Luke 23:27-31).

Thus the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 will be joined together under Christ in that future time.
Thus the nation of Israel will stand forever.
 

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
582
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I won't presume to presuppose God's plans for Israel.

From the looks of it and for thousands of years it appears they have really made him mad so that he abandons them to their fate to never know peace. If not enslaved in Babylon, Egypt,Germany, they're enslaved by terrorist enemy states on all sides.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,738
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I won't presume to presuppose God's plans for Israel.

From the looks of it and for thousands of years it appears they have really made him mad so that he abandons them to their fate to never know peace. If not enslaved in Babylon, Egypt,Germany, they're enslaved by terrorist enemy states on all sides.

Not really the attitude those in Christ should have about the unbelieving Jews.

Since Paul said God put the 'spirit of stupor' upon them, blinding them, then how can He hold them accountable for their unbelief? To be held accountable to God, one MUST not be in ignorance. And while in ignorance, how can one repent? That's why when God removes their blindness (at Christ's return), that is when they will be held accountable for their choice to believe, or not to believe. So until then, it is wrong to think they are condemned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ancient

Randy Kluth

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2020
7,765
2,422
113
Pacific NW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In light of the discussions about Premillennialism,
I would like to share my video on the subject.

Enjoy

Is God finished with Israel.

Is God Finished with Israel

See also: The Fullness

Paul the apostle makes his case in Romans chapter 11, that God intends to keep all his promises to national Israel. Former covenants and promises are not broken; they remain in effect. This video takes us through Romans 11:11-15 where Paul argues that Israel did not fall.

Well done, Cady. I enjoyed, plus, I agree with it. God doesn't just love individuals. He loves nations. He created them. If they fall they can rise again. And I do believe Israel must rise again, because I believe God promised it in the Prophets.

I'm a Premil, and the one weakness the early Chiliasts had was that they didn't anticipate, with any degree of certainty, that Israel would be restored at the end of the age. And so, the whole concept of a Millennium was lost, as the international Church became the "New Israel," as some Church Fathers declared it.

And although I don't have a big problem with Israel sharing her NT blessings with the Christian nations, I do not confuse the name "Israel" with the International Church. God not only loves Israel by name, but He also loves all nations by their own individual names when they repent and embrace Christ as their Constitution.

I believe many Christian nations have existed in history and have embraced Christ as their moral and spiritual leader. The fact it never lasts does not preclude there being a "fix" instituted at the Coming of Christ, when the glorified Church is given to oversee a new age. I trust that I am right?
 

Blue Dragonfly's

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2022
1,190
582
113
not this Christian parody site
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Not really the attitude those in Christ should have about the unbelieving Jews.

Since Paul said God put the 'spirit of stupor' upon them, blinding them, then how can He hold them accountable for their unbelief? To be held accountable to God, one MUST not be in ignorance. And while in ignorance, how can one repent? That's why when God removes their blindness (at Christ's return), that is when they will be held accountable for their choice to believe, or not to believe. So until then, it is wrong to think they are condemned.
I didn't say their souls were condemned. Don't make that claim nor rank a judgement upon my conduct as a Christian for something I didn't say.
What you observed about their current state actually aligns with what I did actually post. Minus your imp,ying I was talking about the state of their souls.
Not really the attitude those in Christ should have about the unbelieving Jews.

Since Paul said God put the 'spirit of stupor' upon them, blinding them, then how can He hold them accountable for their unbelief? To be held accountable to God, one MUST not be in ignorance. And while in ignorance, how can one repent? That's why when God removes their blindness (at Christ's return), that is when they will be held accountable for their choice to believe, or not to believe. So until then, it is wrong to think they are condemned.
My post did not speak to the state of their souls but to the state of their state.
 

Davy

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2018
11,738
2,521
113
Southeastern U.S.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
One of the mysteries that many brethren are not aware of about Israel is that God has kept the majority of the seed of Israel in his palm, and directed them through the centuries, even while He scattered them. There is enough archaeological history to show that God's scattering of the ten northern tribes of Israel led to their migrations into the west through the Caucasus Mountains around the Black Sea, and populated the nations of Asia Minor and Europe. And even through those migrations a remnant of the ten tribe house of Israel would keep their history, which is actually declared in the Scottish Declaration of Arbroath.

To Ephraim's seed was the promise to become "a multitude of nations" (Genesis 48), and so it was that lost Israel migrated to the west and would become a multitude of nations that would eventually turn to The New Covenant Jesus Christ, and form the western Christian nations and its ally Christian nations.

Thing is though, those just are not called nor known as Israel, but that is who those western nations represent today. The nation state of Israel in the holy lands too are God's Israel, but just one part of Israel, just like the Israel in the west is. The Jews represent the "house of Judah" (3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi), and the majority of scattered Israel that was not of the Jews represent the "house of Israel" of the ten northern tribes of Israel. God split the old nation of Israel into two separate 'houses' per His Word (1 Kings 11 forward). And the two houses are still... separate today. But He foretold what they would do, and even Jacob in Genesis 49 was given to tell his 12 sons what would befall them in the last days.
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,561
1,868
113
72
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
One of the mysteries that many brethren are not aware of about Israel is that God has kept the majority of the seed of Israel in his palm, and directed them through the centuries, even while He scattered them.

Here's Israel.

Every person on the planet.


After more than three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, Abraham's physical DNA is ubiquitous in every inhabitant of planet earth.

Genetically, "Jewishness" is found in the entirety of humanity.

Established mathematically. Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.

Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


Corroborated empirically.
By the Jewish community itself.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

How does God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.
 

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
In light of the discussions about Premillennialism,
I would like to share my video on the subject.

Enjoy

Is God finished with Israel.

Is God Finished with Israel

See also: The Fullness

Paul the apostle makes his case in Romans chapter 11, that God intends to keep all his promises to national Israel. Former covenants and promises are not broken; they remain in effect. This video takes us through Romans 11:11-15 where Paul argues that Israel did not fall.
Is God finished with Israel ? Well how could God be finished with Israel in fact ?
So one is claiming is God finished with Israel ? well Israel is Gods Servants in fact ! so how can God be finished with his Servants ? They who Serve God !
They who serve God are Born again Christians in fact, because they know him in fact.
The rest do not know Christ Jesus and serve themselves or what they Idolise in fact, their religion serves Religion ! Not Christ Jesus as their Head, so they add Idols into there Church.

Israel never fails in fact Never ever did such fail ever, The Jews were lead astray at times, but that is only because they turned their backs on God and were not worthy, but we see when Jesus came only so many were worthy of God as to regards Moses, so they had faith in Jesus and when Jesus went to Heaven then they understood that Jesus was truly the Christ in fact and they were Israel in fact and they became the first Christians in fact and the blueprint of the Jewish religion had just hatched out to come alive ! For their eyes where now opened !
There is no such thing as Jews or Greeks from then on, who are under Christ ! because one who is truly under Christ is a new Man ! Jews or Greeks mean nothing to a Christian in fact, ones Race does not cut it at all and it never did !
It's all about you and Christ Jesus first and foremost, the rest of it, your so called Race or culture is just decoration.
One who marches about for their so called Race or Culture is not worthy of God, as any stupid Pagan can do just that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CadyandZoe

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,744
5,599
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In light of the discussions about Premillennialism,
I would like to share my video on the subject.

Enjoy

Is God finished with Israel.

Is God Finished with Israel

See also: The Fullness

Paul the apostle makes his case in Romans chapter 11, that God intends to keep all his promises to national Israel. Former covenants and promises are not broken; they remain in effect. This video takes us through Romans 11:11-15 where Paul argues that Israel did not fall.
Sorry, I don't usually watch posted videos...but are you suggesting (or do not believe) that Jesus, having "come but for the house of Israel" was not being Truthful when He said, "It is finished?"
 
  • Like
Reactions: covenantee

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,245
2,340
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Natural Israel were rebellious and disobedient....so as serial covenant breakers, they lost their place in the Kingdom.

Matthew 21:42-44...
"Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?


43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44 And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.”
(ESV)

Peter, addressing his fellow Christians, had this to say...1 Peter 2:4-10....
"As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture:

Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.


7 So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,


“The stone that the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone,”


8 and

A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.


9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."


This is not speaking about natural Israel who had the Kingdom taken away from them, but to 'spiritual Israel'...the "Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) faithful Christians (both Jews and Gentiles) who were replacing the ones who should have received the fulfillment of the promises, but due to their own failures, they lost it.

God chose a new "Israel", thereby keeping his covenant in force.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keraz

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,714
2,121
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What characteristics does God look for to identify His Israel?

1. DNA
2. Culture
3. Religion
4. Domicile
5. Faithfulness and obedience to His Son

With Scripture, of course.

Where in the videos is this question answered?
The video assumes Paul's definition of "Israel". That is, the video explicates what Paul meant to say in Romans 11. Paul intends to say something about Israel as he and his readers understood it.

Let's review the text.

I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.

Paul rhetorically asks whether Israel fell when she stumbled, when did she stumble? Elsewhere we learn that She tripped over the cornerstone that God laid in Zion. We know that the cornerstone is Jesus, the Christ, the King of Israel. Putting Jesus on a cross was her blunder, her misstep, which Paul says turned out as riches for the Gentiles.

By implication then, since Paul is contrasting Israel with the Gentiles, we know that Israel does not include Gentiles. Israel is being contrasted with Gentiles, and in this context it is understood that the contrast is between the nation of Israel and the other nations in the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,714
2,121
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is the issue that I battle with RandyK and others with.

God will not save, protect or restore any people who reject Jesus. God's grace has lasted for nearly 2000 years and the Jews still deny Jesus, they now face Judgment and punishment; their just deserts.

The new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, which will be established in all of the holy Land, will consist of every faithful Christian person. A few will be Jews. They will be a vast multitude, Revelation 7:9, praising the Lord for their deliverance as He is revealed to them. Revelation 14:1, 2 Thess 1:10
They have already been judged and punished. But, as the Bible says, God's punishment is measured out and does not last. He plans to restore her, clean her up, and bless her.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,714
2,121
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well done, Cady. I enjoyed, plus, I agree with it. God doesn't just love individuals. He loves nations. He created them. If they fall they can rise again. And I do believe Israel must rise again, because I believe God promised it in the Prophets.

I'm a Premil, and the one weakness the early Chiliasts had was that they didn't anticipate, with any degree of certainty, that Israel would be restored at the end of the age. And so, the whole concept of a Millennium was lost, as the international Church became the "New Israel," as some Church Fathers declared it.

And although I don't have a big problem with Israel sharing her NT blessings with the Christian nations, I do not confuse the name "Israel" with the International Church. God not only loves Israel by name, but He also loves all nations by their own individual names when they repent and embrace Christ as their Constitution.

I believe many Christian nations have existed in history and have embraced Christ as their moral and spiritual leader. The fact it never lasts does not preclude there being a "fix" instituted at the Coming of Christ, when the glorified Church is given to oversee a new age. I trust that I am right?
If I understand you correctly, yes. The Bible seems to suggest that Jesus will rule from Zion, from Jerusalem, and his rule will extend to the entire earth. Presumably, he will entrust that task to his followers, who will live among the nations and guide them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

CadyandZoe

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
5,714
2,121
113
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is God finished with Israel ? Well how could God be finished with Israel in fact ?
So one is claiming is God finished with Israel ? well Israel is Gods Servants in fact ! so how can God be finished with his Servants ? They who Serve God !
They who serve God are Born again Christians in fact, because they know him in fact.
The rest do not know Christ Jesus and serve themselves or what they Idolise in fact, their religion serves Religion ! Not Christ Jesus as their Head, so they add Idols into there Church.

Israel never fails in fact Never ever did such fail ever, The Jews were lead astray at times, but that is only because they turned their backs on God and were not worthy, but we see when Jesus came only so many were worthy of God as to regards Moses, so they had faith in Jesus and when Jesus went to Heaven then they understood that Jesus was truly the Christ in fact and they were Israel in fact and they became the first Christians in fact and the blueprint of the Jewish religion had just hatched out to come alive ! For their eyes where now opened !
There is no such thing as Jews or Greeks from then on, who are under Christ ! because one who is truly under Christ is a new Man ! Jews or Greeks mean nothing to a Christian in fact, ones Race does not cut it at all and it never did !
It's all about you and Christ Jesus first and foremost, the rest of it, your so called Race or culture is just decoration.
One who marches about for their so called Race or Culture is not worthy of God, as any stupid Pagan can do just that.
I agree with most of what you said, but I would like to add something.

Because of the behavior and attitude of the Hebrew people, living as the so-called people of Yahweh, they disobeyed God and therefore he removed them from the land, sending them into exile. And while they lived in exile, the rest of the world assumed that since Assyria took Israel captive, the god of the Assyrians must be stronger than Yahweh. And since Babylon took Judah captive, the god of Babylon must be stronger than the God of Judah. In this way, the God of the Hebrews was blasphemed all day long. Isaiah 52:5, Romans 2:24

In Ezekiel chapter 36, God announces that he intends to restore his holy name. We will get to that in a minute.

Yahweh, for his own purposes, developed a relationship with the Hebrew people. We sometimes forget what that meant. In ancient times, people believed that the god was relegated to a particular region or area of land. And it was the god's responsibility to nurture and protect his people. In similar fashion, God took the Hebrew people to be "his people". At Mt. Sinai, God promises to be "a god" to the Hebrews (in the way that was commonly understood at the time), if they agreed to be "a people" to him.

So then, although there is truly only one God and he is God to every man, woman, and child on the earth, overtly, Yahweh decided to make himself known to the world through the Hebrew people. And for this reason, one might evaluate God's performance as the God of the Hebrews. Did the God of the Hebrews nurture them and protect them from their enemies? How did that project turn out? Was Yahweh a god to the Hebrews? Did the Hebrews keep their promise to be "a people" for God?

That project, according to God himself, was a failure. And Paul notes this in his epistle to the Hebrews. Speaking to those who name the name Jew, Paul writes,

21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

Hopefully I haven't lost you with this lengthy explanation. Bear all of that in mind and review Ezekiel 36, where God announces his intent to restore his holy name. He spells out the conditions and circumstances, which in his view, will cause his name to be holy again among the people of the world.

So then, although in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, for the sake of his holy name, God intends to restore the Hebrew people back to the land, clean them up, cause them to give up idolatry and to live as a righteous and moral people, under King Jesus. This is the main reason why God is not finished with Israel yet.

@Randy Kluth @Aunty Jane @ScottA @covenantee