Is it ok for a man to pray while wearing a head covering? Paul told the Corinthians it was NOT ok.

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quietthinker

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I wouldn’t wear a hat in a Church . I think it would be disrespectful. But that’s just me.
well there yer go!
Muslims take their shoes off before entering their mosque, that sounds pretty respectful, particularly for the cleaner.
Maybe we could take that feather out of their cap? :)
 
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RLT63

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well there yer go!
Muslims take their shoes off before entering their mosque, that sounds pretty respectful, particularly for the cleaner.
Maybe we could take that feather out of their cap? :)
I’m not concerned with what Muslims do. No offense it’s just not my concern. I have more than enough to handle sorting out Christian beliefs.
 
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quietthinker

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I’m not concerned with what Muslims do. No offense it’s just not my concern. I have more than enough to handle sorting out Christian beliefs.
People and their practices cross culturally and not exclusive to each other. It is their attitudes across the religious divides which ultimately drives and remains the same.
 

Heart2Soul

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Take off your hat, it is and has always been an act of humility and respect. Men took it off when they greeted a Lady or entered any building, restaurant, etc. A hat says you are concealing something.
Women are to conceal their beauty, adornment ( their hair) and their legs as much as possible. Look decent - not trashy. Why,? Because women are beautiful, they can be a distraction. Men are to pay attention to the sermon not be gawking at some hotty. "Wow, look at her ...dang ... she's sitting with another girl ... maybe she isn't married?" ...
And so on and so forth, this man is captivated ... lust comes into his heart ... What was the sermon about ... I think he missed it today.
What is really silly to me is those Barristers wearing white wigs in British courtrooms! Courtrooms are a place where good and evil are sorted out, truth and justice found ... and I am sure people are praying in there too! God's looking down on them too. Maybe we should post that scripture in the front of the British Courts!
Let me point out that society is the one who has set certain acceptable "do's and don'ts " in our world. And each culture has their own separate rules to follow.
So a man removing his hat out of respect was one of those do's that was established and then taught down each generation. God tells us how to respect one another...and that is to love them as you love yourself.
In America it is rude not to look in the person speaking to you in the eye. In Japan, it is rude to look the person speaking to you in the eye.
What does the Bible say???? It doesn't say....
 
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Patrick1966

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It's interesting to me that male golfers in professional golf remove their hats before shaking hands at the end of a round. If it's appropriate for golfers then it's probably appropriate when talking to God. Although I presume there are acceptable exceptions, such as a soldier praying from a foxhole.
 
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CadyandZoe

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1 Corinthians 11:4
English Standard Version
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,

All,
Paul is dealing with a cultural practice, which became a problem after women began participation in the worship service. The locus of the issue is centered on the women because, according to both Jesus and Paul, women are now allowed to participate in the church service, which included public prayer. For the first time in the history of the Church, by order of Christ himself, women are being treated as equals with regard to worship, specifically public prayer.

In order that we might understand the problem, Paul reminds his readers of the meaning behind removal of the hat.

3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. 4 Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. 5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.

Here Paul describes TWO contradictory cultural practices: 1) to honor God, a man removes his hat., 2) To honor her husband, a wife wears a hat. These two contradictory practices are not a problem until a wife is allowed to pray in public. This is a bit tricky so stay with me.

While a women is in public, she wears a hat in order to honor her husband. That is on the one hand. On the other hand, when the woman is praying in public what does she do? If she removes her hat while praying, in order to honor God, she is also, at the same time, bringing dishonor to her husband. In other words, being allowed to pray in public has put her in a double bind. If she keeps her hat on her head while praying in public, she brings honor to her husband, but at the same time, she dishonors God. Or, if she removes her hat while praying in public, she brings honor to God, but at the same time she dishonors her husband.

The church wrote Paul to ask for his advice. What should the women do? We want to allow them to participate; we agree that it is a good and right thing to do. But we have a problem. Will you help us? Tell us what to do in this case. Should the woman wear a hat to honor her husband or should she remove her hat in order to honor God? It seems no matter what she does, she is going to bring dishonor to someone, which is not what anyone wants her to do.

Ultimately, Paul leaves it up to the local church (vs. 13 Judge for yourselves . . .) But he gives them a set of useful criteria by which to make a determination. If I read Paul correctly, I believe his answer is this. Since the husband is the head of the wife, and ultimately Christ and God are the head of the husband, then to bring honor to her husband is to also bring honor to her Lord. So a woman should wear a hat while praying in public, which honors both her husband and her God at the same time.

If wearing a hat had this same meaning in our culture today, then we would certainly follow Paul's instructions. But I wonder if wearing a hat has the same connotation today?


@lforrest
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@Lambano
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Patrick1966

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All,
Paul is dealing with a cultural practice, which became a problem after women began participation in the worship service. The locus of the issue is centered on the women because, according to both Jesus and Paul, women are now allowed to participate in the church service, which included public prayer. For the first time in the history of the Church, by order of Christ himself, women are being treated as equals with regard to worship, specifically public prayer.

In order that we might understand the problem, Paul reminds his readers of the meaning behind removal of the hat.

3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. 4 Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. 5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.

Here Paul describes TWO contradictory cultural practices: 1) to honor God, a man removes his hat., 2) To honor her husband, a wife wears a hat. These two contradictory practices are not a problem until a wife is allowed to pray in public. This is a bit tricky so stay with me.

While a women is in public, she wears a hat in order to honor her husband. That is on the one hand. On the other hand, when the woman is praying in public what does she do? If she removes her hat while praying, in order to honor God, she is also, at the same time, bringing dishonor to her husband. In other words, being allowed to pray in public has put her in a double bind. If she keeps her hat on her head while praying in public, she brings honor to her husband, but at the same time, she dishonors God. Or, if she removes her hat while praying in public, she brings honor to God, but at the same time she dishonors her husband.

The church wrote Paul to ask for his advice. What should the women do? We want to allow them to participate; we agree that it is a good and right thing to do. But we have a problem. Will you help us? Tell us what to do in this case. Should the woman wear a hat to honor her husband or should she remove her hat in order to honor God? It seems no matter what she does, she is going to bring dishonor to someone, which is not what anyone wants her to do.

Ultimately, Paul leaves it up to the local church (vs. 13 Judge for yourselves . . .) But he gives them a set of useful criteria by which to make a determination. If I read Paul correctly, I believe his answer is this. Since the husband is the head of the wife, and ultimately Christ and God are the head of the husband, then to bring honor to her husband is to also bring honor to her Lord. So a woman should wear a hat while praying in public, which honors both her husband and her God at the same time.

If wearing a hat had this same meaning in our culture today, then we would certainly follow Paul's instructions. But I wonder if wearing a hat has the same connotation today?


@lforrest
@Ronald Nolette
@Michiah-Imla
@Lambano
@RLT63


Thank you.

I personally love seeing a woman with a head covering in church. It tells me that they're earnestly trying to follow God.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Let me point out that society is the one who has set certain acceptable "do's and don'ts " in our world. And each culture has their own separate rules to follow.
So a man removing his hat out of respect was one of those do's that was established and then taught down each generation. God tells us how to respect one another...and that is to love them as you love yourself.
In America it is rude not to look in the person speaking to you in the eye. In Japan, it is rude to look the person speaking to you in the eye.
What does the Bible say???? It doesn't say....
Don't you think removing your hat when you pray became a common Christian way that became a norm and so was used in all our cultural settings?
Righteous behavior at any moment is guided by the Holy Spirit.
But you are right that Japan has different ways. When the tsunami hit them, 99% of them prayed to Buddha. They are lost, so their ways really don't matter.
They have been Americanized in many ways but still hold on tight to their Buddha.
 
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Jim B

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Paul was not teaching the Mosaic Law! He was teaching order in the Christian church!!!!!

So then according to you , this part of the bible is not profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction and instruction in righteousness, so that a man of god may be thoroughly furnished unto all good works!

In some churches in Amerioca not accepting practicing homosexuals as members is considered rude. Are you okay with that?
Do you understand reductio ad absurdum? And what/where is Amerioca?
 

Heart2Soul

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Don't you think removing your hat when you pray became a common Christian way that became a norm and so was used in all our cultural settings?
Righteous behavior at any moment is guided by the Holy Spirit.
But you are right that Japan has different ways. When the tsunami hit them, 99% of them prayed to Buddha. They are lost, so their ways really don't matter.
They have been Americanized in many ways but still hold on tight to their Buddha.
When did hats become a thing? I know the Jewish men wear yarmulkes, and religious men in scripture always have a head covering of some kind....
Too much emphasis is given to the outer appearance but God sees the inward appearance.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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When did hats become a thing? I know the Jewish men wear yarmulkes, and religious men in scripture always have a head covering of some kind....
Too much emphasis is given to the outer appearance but God sees the inward appearance.
I guess thousands of years ago to keep the sun from burning their faces and necks, hats were invented. In the Middle East, the Arabs wear towels. Here in Texas we have rednecks, hence the cowboy hat. In Mexico, the Sombrero, and some of those hats keep your whole body in the shade. I have to wear a hat for protection, me bald eagle.
 
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Jim B

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It is silly to discuss whether wearing a hat in church is reasonable Christian behavior. There were perhaps customs that were applicable in first century Corinth, but that is irrelevant.

Catholic priests, from the Pope downward, and Orthodox priests, cover their heads when they pray in church. Are they going to hell?

1676498406298.png

His Eminence Archbishop Elpidophoros (Lambriniadis) of America, Most Honorable Exarch of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, is the eighth Archbishop of America.

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1676498384163.png

Pope Francis

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Are these two great spiritual leaders defying God? OF COURSE NOT!
 
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JunChosen

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Sad to see that most Christians have difficulties understanding Scripture. Time and again, I've said that it's because they read the Bible like it is an ordinary book and not as a spiritual Book, that is....God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak! [Mark 4:34]. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.

It seems like Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is contrasting about long hair given to women's head for a covering versus short in men. as we read in 1 Corinthians 11: 6-7, to show spiritual significance.

Go back to 1 Corinthians Chapter Eleven to get the gist for you are barking at the wrong tree.

Don't fall under the ominous warning set forth in Hosea 4:6.

To God Be The Glory
 

RLT63

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It is silly to discuss whether wearing a hat in church is reasonable Christian behavior. There were perhaps customs that were applicable in first century Corinth, but that is irrelevant.

Catholic priests, from the Pope downward, and Orthodox priests, cover their heads when they pray in church. Are they going to hell?

View attachment 29514

His Eminence Archbishop Elpidophoros (Lambriniadis) of America, Most Honorable Exarch of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, is the eighth Archbishop of America.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

View attachment 29513

Pope Francis

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are these two great spiritual leaders defying God? OF COURSE NOT!
I don’t think they’re going to Hell for covering their heads, but maybe showing their ignorance of scripture?
 

Jim B

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Sad to see that most Christians have difficulties understanding Scripture. Time and again, I've said that it's because they read the Bible like it is an ordinary book and not as a spiritual Book, that is....God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak! [Mark 4:34]. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.

It seems like Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is contrasting about long hair given to women's head for a covering versus short in men. as we read in 1 Corinthians 11: 6-7, to show spiritual significance.

Go back to 1 Corinthians Chapter Eleven to get the gist for you are barking at the wrong tree.

Don't fall under the ominous warning set forth in Hosea 4:6.

To God Be The Glory
"Sad to see that most Christians have difficulties understanding Scripture", excepting yourself, of course. When did you gain infallibility?

"Time and again, I've said that it's because they read the Bible like it is an ordinary book and not as a spiritual Book". a) Stop repeating yourself! b) How do you know how Christians read the Bible?

Your interpretation of Scripture is flawed. You might try reading verses 4-5, "Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.". By saying "it is the same as", Paul is clearly not discussing hair length. He is making a comparison.

Here is Mark 4:33-34, "With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything." You should read your Bible more carefully instead of making a clearly wrong statement. There is not a single translation that says " "God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak!"

And taking Hosea 4:6 out of context clearly shows that you are using eisegesis. Go back a couple of verses... “But let no one bring a charge, let no one accuse another," ... before you continuing violating God's instructions.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Sad to see that most Christians have difficulties understanding Scripture. Time and again, I've said that it's because they read the Bible like it is an ordinary book and not as a spiritual Book, that is....God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak! [Mark 4:34]. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
And YOU are one of them. You misinterpreted and misquoted the scripture. A fundamental rule of interpreting scripture is context. You need to read what Jesus said earlier in the chapter:
"And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,"
‘Seeing they may see and not perceive,
And hearing they may hear and not understand;
Lest they should turn,
And their sins be forgiven them.’
Mark 4:11-12

So your assumption that Jesus spoke only in parables is false!.

As far as 1 Cor. 11, your view that God is trying to show us some spiritual significance/contrast between long and short hair is off too.
He explains the reason in verse 7:
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."
 
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Lambano

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Ultimately, Paul leaves it up to the local church (vs. 13 Judge for yourselves . . .)
I note that elsewhere in the 1 Corinthians FAQ, Paul indicates certain answers are advisory only, not normative. For example, 7:6, 7:25, 7:35. He also indicates in 7:10 that his teaching on divorce comes from the Lord Jesus Himself and thus should be considered normative.

As you noted, it is interesting that these plus the verse in question all pertain to the relationship between men and women.
 

Lambano

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It's interesting to me that male golfers in professional golf remove their hats before shaking hands at the end of a round. If it's appropriate for golfers then it's probably appropriate when talking to God.
Yes, but I notice they don't take off their hats when praying over that 8-foot par putt...

(I'm reminded of the great evangelist Billy Graham being quoted as saying, "The golf course is the one place in my life where prayer hasn't helped. I think it's because I'm a lousy putter.")
 

Lambano

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It’s just when I get home from work and bless my food I often forget to take it off.
You too? Me too!:D

Although I think the Corinthians' question pertains to praying in the context of the church gathering, I also had in mind those spontaneous prayers that occur during the day. And I specifically had a mind a prayer of praise and thanksgiving that occurred in the grocery store the day before. I did not take off the cowboy hat, and if I had, I might have brought attention to the fact that I WAS praying, in violation of Jesus's teaching in Matthew 6:5-6.
 
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