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I found it amusing that the thread started just like the Jesus Seminar did, taking a vote on if Jesus is God...
Jesus doesn't need our votes to validate His Deity. Nor does He require our intellectual ascent (or even faith for that matter) to establish His divinity.
Even when there was nothing, Jesus was still God.
I found it amusing that the thread started just like the Jesus Seminar did, taking a vote on if Jesus is God...
Jesus doesn't need our votes to validate His Deity. Nor does He require our intellectual ascent (or even faith for that matter) to establish His divinity.
Even when there was nothing, Jesus was still God.
So only you are guardian and champion of what is real in Scripture and when someone disagrees with your cause it is not your individual interpretation but the millions of people who disagree with you that are wrong?
I've heard that song sung a million times. The tune is always the same, flat.
So now you are the spokesman for the Lord Almighty? That's a fair amount of hubris, ego, with just a smidgen of delusions of grandeur tossed in for good measure. Mix it all up and we get... well, Angie is watching.
As for your attack against my "unwillingness to think"... I always find it wonderfully instructive to point out to others reading the threads to watch what happens when someone like yourself attempts to engage in "thoughtful" discussion. It is always a personal attack against the intelligence of a person with whom you disagree. You (and your ilk) always consider yourselves the mentally superior (or spiritually superior) in the discussion and go about it one of two ways (in fact you've used both in your post).
First you attack the intelligence of others (I've already pointed that out), and second your wrap yourselves up in a tight little cocoon of holy sounding words like, "The words that I speak are spirit and truth..." or the ever popular amongst charlatans, "They come from God through the Holy Spirit. It is not me you reject..."
You speak only for yourself, as do I, and as does everyone else on the planet. The Lord speaks for the Lord through the scripture. To attempt to take up the mantle of divinity by claiming to speak holy words is tantamount to Lucifer holding himself up as better than God. So, get behind me Satan, you've nothing to establish but his kingdom in this world.
I have to agree with BAndy. I've been posting on this board long enough to see scores of people present the same old heresies as enlightened truth, over and over and over again.....
Yet, it is not their incomplete doctrine that betrays their heart; instead, it is their inflated ego. It doesn't matter if you are clubbing someone to death with the truth or lie, the result is the same.
Christians are called to love each other - unfortunately, most people who post on message boards confuse 'love' with 'informing' people of the truth or their truth. Love is Spirit driven - informing people is false self driven - it ends up puffing up the ego of the informer.
So, I invite you out of your ivory tower, Vengle - leave your ego and come forth to love!
It is pretty obvious that due to the way many interpret Romans chapter 7, they also misinterpret the following: Romans 8:10 “And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
What does that mean?
It is pretty obvious Paul meant the same thing he said to the Colossians church:
Colossians 3:5-7 “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.”
How can I say that for sure? By what Paul said in verse 13 of that same chapter 8 to the Romans:
Romans 8:13 “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
Galatians 6:7 “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
So please listen: Romans seven is Paul speaking illustratively as the powerless man that he was before Christ.
I certainly sympathize that this is a difficult thing to find out after having lived for years not knowing it, even as I myself did. It is a shocker to find out.
But if we look at the Old Law we learn why.
Our bodies are like as the utensils which had to be purified, cleansed ceremonially before they could enter the temple. Even unclean persons could not enter the temple. And this was made clear to us by that Law using hyperbole requirements (exaggerated pictures) such as a woman being unclean during her period. A woman could not enter the temple while on her period.
Our bodies are vessels which must be made honorable before God will use us in sacred service.
And this is the single most important teaching for us to understand. For God will forgive us much if we but get this one right. He will be patient with us for not understanding the exact identity of Jesus or the Holy Spirit if we can only get this one right. He will be patient with us for not understanding hell or heaven if we only would get this teaching right.
It is the most important teaching of Christ.
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
You are making a judgment of imagination.
I see this as a debate site and that is how all of you use it.
What you are saying sanctions anything you or those who believe like you do but blackens me for doing the same thing.
And I am nicer about than you guys because I do not infer that you must be a heretic or an antichrist to believe what you believe just because it happens to be different from what I believe. Nor do I say things like you are playing God.
Your post is hypocritical aspen as it is a double standard.
Look what i posted on the Debate Forum at 8:28 AM today under the thread The Age of God's Grace post #141:
The proof that i do not treat you guys as ill as you are trying to make it is all over this site.
Even what you in your pride interpret as my pride in reality are only things I have humbly exposed to you about me so that you can see I have no strings of religions to bias me.
These organized religions are people's hang-ups and the cause of pride.
1 Corinthians 1:12-13 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"
Here is the church our loyalty belongs to:
Hebrews 12:22 "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
1 Timothy 6:15-16 is not at all saying what you think because you do not see what it is comparing Jesus to.That is a nice emotional conviction but don't you care whether or not it is really true?
Jesus is the lone one among those that Jesus is being compared to who has immortality and they can have no power without him so he is the only true potentate of them.
God does not dwell in unapproachable light; God is that unapproachable light.
Jesus dwells in the light that is his Father and as his Fathers image Jesus perfectly shines that light from his Father just as we ought to do and will when we become image to image like Jesus. (2 Corinthians 3:18)
Jesus is being compared by Paul to that line of earthly kings from David. And Jesus is the king of kings and lord of lords in relation to them.
Jesus is similarly to those that will rule as kings with him as one body in him.
And that Jesus is divine does not mean he has to be God. (2 Peter 1:3-4)
You specifically said that anyone who denies Jesus is God is the antichrist.
I think there are two issues in play; is Jesus the Messiah? And is the Messiah God?
I believe the disciples definitely believed that Jesus was the Messiah, but I am not sure if anyone thought that the Messiah was divine, because he was not prophesied to be divine. I believe that Jesus's divinity was realized over time. The disciples and their follower's faith waxed and waned before any definitive doctrine was written.
Simple way to find that out. What does the Isaiah 9:6 verse declare?
The following is of where... Jesus The Christ would be born...
Mic 5:2
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
KJV
What does that, "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" mean?? What does the Hebrew name 'Immanuel' mean??
There's all kinds of NT evidence for Jesus declaring Himself as God, like Rev.1 and Rev.21 & 22 with the Alpha and Omega reference to Isaiah 44:6.