IS JESUS' SACRIFICE ETERNAL?

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bbyrd009

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If Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world...
ha, Jesus was not, He is the proxy. Iow you will not find "I was slain from the foundation of the world" anywhere. Jesus was "slain" when some Sanhedrin decided to try to kill Him, not realizing that He gave His life willingly
And God is not part of time...
if i say that it is "right now," is that a part of time? what time is that? Is "right now" a time? Sort of yes, but maybe no, right

iow time can also be considered to be a construct, an artificial index that we measure a "day" by. See, we forget that when we were little kids hearing someone say "what time is it?" reminded us that they were insane, see
 

bbyrd009

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He could have been reciting Psalm 22, or He could have felt abandoned by God Father, or He could have felt His own people were against Him and hated Him instead of learning from His teachings, He could have felt that He was not received as He should have been, etc.

We don't really know what those words meant...
ah, fwiw they become crystal clear in a certain perspective, iow when it is realized that God did not forsake Jesus
we are talking about "My God, My God" now, right, i know i Quoted that somewhere lol, where is it
 

Episkopos

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It is important to see that the truth...and all things eternal concerning us, are happening in 2 places at once. Jesus died in this world...but he also offered Himself as a sacrifice in heaven. Both of these things took place at the same time.

Hebrews 9:12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.

Did Jesus enter into the holiest place here on earth? No. But He did so in heaven.

So then the OP question is flawed. Both the means and the end were eternal.

The process is not one that needs repeating over and over eternally...as per the RCC mass. That isn't what gives power to the eternal sacrifice. That isn't what activates it.

No, what activates the power (grace) is accepting the cross by faith...the cross that causes us to both die with Jesus and be restored by HIS life...while we are in these mortal bodies.

Where did Jesus give Himself for us? Was it at the cross or in heaven? Well, both. These are inseparable. So then it is also inseparable that if we die with Him we shall also live with Him.

The mystery is that we can enter into this process of death to life right now...by faith.
 
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bbyrd009

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That God created time is an accepted theological concept.
ha, well that's good enough for you, right, and guess what, it's good enough for me too :)
only i mean something differnt i guess lol

we prolly need to differentiate time from clocks here somewhere, being as how we currently conflate them so cavalierly i guess. The "time" is currently--see, we always gotta add "currently," see--4:04 pm in Italy, but it's 10:03 am in Florida. Which one of those "times" did God make? which one is true, and which the lie?
What "time" is it on Venus right now?

the point being that saying "God created time" is misleading, can be misleading
 
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bbyrd009

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God can also get INTO our time too, BTW -- He can do anything.
can God lie? This "God can do anything" is not really true, and not just @ "lying" fwiw, God cannot change, cannot break a promise, cannot break a commandment, etc, but imo the time thing is moot anyway, time is an illusion, albeit a persistent one
 

GodsGrace

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i plainly labelled that a perspective, GG

eternal does not mean forever, except from a perspective
eons have endings, as do "eternities"

"eternal" is an English term iow, not a Scriptural term, the way we define it now

strictly an illusion based upon perception, as Einstein has proven.
Time is a completely subjective thing, limited to humans, who are after all deceived
Don't understand you bb.
Eternal mans no beginning and no end. Either in or out of the bible.
Ages have endings....but what is eternal has no ending.

As to the illusion....Einstein proved time is different from what we believed...it's not set. But it still exists....
 

bbyrd009

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Eternal mans no beginning and no end. Either in or out of the bible.
Ages have endings....but what is eternal has no ending.
better tell the ancients, and Strong's i guess, bc they did not use "eon" that way at all ok, that is merely what the wolves have convinced you is true, that will not even hold up to any exegesis ok, like ppl going to hell lol
Don't understand you bb.
you don't even have to, just go understand that Strong's link GG, eternities are followed by eternities, eternities end, which is why the passages make no sense if eternity = forever
 

GodsGrace

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ha, Jesus was not, He is the proxy. Iow you will not find "I was slain from the foundation of the world" anywhere. Jesus was "slain" when some Sanhedrin decided to try to kill Him, not realizing that He gave His life willingly
if i say that it is "right now," is that a part of time? what time is that? Is "right now" a time? Sort of yes, but maybe no, right

iow time can also be considered to be a construct, an artificial index that we measure a "day" by. See, we forget that when we were little kids hearing someone say "what time is it?" reminded us that they were insane, see
i understand what you're saying.
But time can be intended as a real thing.
It exists, it passes. Stars get old and die out.
Time is movement...things look the same but are not.
You pass the a street on Monday.
You pass it on Tuesday -- it looks the same, but it's not.
Time has changed things.... leaves have fallen off trees, the street is dirtier or cleaner, cars have worn out the pavement, houses are older,,,, etc.
 

GodsGrace

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better tell the ancients, and Strong's i guess, bc they did not use "eon" that way at all ok, that is merely what the wolves have convinced you is true, that will not even hold up to any exegesis ok, like ppl going to hell lol
you don't even have to, just go understand that Strong's link GG, eternities are followed by eternities, eternities end, which is why the passages make no sense if eternity = forever
You know me...I don't use Strong's.
Many times the bible means "age".
 

GodsGrace

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can God lie? This "God can do anything" is not really true, and not just @ "lying" fwiw, God cannot change, cannot break a promise, cannot break a commandment, etc, but imo the time thing is moot anyway, time is an illusion, albeit a persistent one
You're right.
You're also soooooo fussssy!
 
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CoreIssue

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  • Well, one issues here is a translation you use. In example the that KJV has a lot of errors, is archaic English and has a lot of catholic influence in it.
Another is the accuracy of translations. Again, the KJV use as a 500 year old compilation document while others use manuscripts dating back to the times of the prophets and apostles. And the simple reality you're reading material in modern thinking in English from ancient times.

As with eternal, are you talking about that beginning period before genesis 1:1, from the New Earth or outside the universe that is subject to time, meaning decay?

"Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world." Speaks of a definite beginning as stretches forward
For eternity. Just as the humanity of Jesus has a definite beginning in the planning of god.

Angels have a definite beginning.

Just saying be careful and watch what you label as eternal without beginning. Only God, the Trinity, is beginningless(first, second and third persons). Not father, son and holy spirit.
 

Frank Lee

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Ecclesiastes 3:14 KJVS
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it , that men should fear before him.

John 19:30 KJVS
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

When God says it is finished indeed it is. Men contort, twist, stretch and knead God's word to suit some ill conceived position, doctrine or denomination. The simplicity of Jesus Christ and his words are quite often dismissed with the wave of a religious hand.

Mark 10:15 KJVS
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
 

bbyrd009

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Time has changed things
time did no such thing, wadr
those things changed through time, from your perspective
but time itself did not actually do anything, right
something happened that you were not there to witness, and so we say "time changes things."
also notice now we aren't talking about clock time any more, now we are getting closer to what time really means prolly, something more akin to "things have occurred that i was not aware of until now"
 

Enoch111

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Is Jesus' sacrifice eternal just in its result, or ALSO in its process?
The sacrifice of Christ as the Lamb of God was ONCE only and for all time, and it ended all other sacrifices for sin. However, the impact and value of that sacrifice is indeed eternal. Introducing the term "process" is misleading. The resurrection of Christ established the perfection of that one sacrifice for sins forever.
What exactly does eternal mean?
Eternal simply means that which has no end. That which is forever.
 

OzSpen

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A poster just said this:

Yes, it [Christ's sacrifice] is eternal...in its result, NOT ITS PROCESS.

Is Jesus' sacrifice eternal just in its result, or ALSO in its process?
What exactly does eternal mean?


This is a definition of the word:

eternal
[ih-tur-nl]
See more synonyms for eternal on Thesaurus.com
adjective

  1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; alwaysexisting (opposed to temporal):eternal life.
  2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless:eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
  3. enduring; immutable:eternal principles.

We many times say that from the beginning, God had planned a Savior since He knew we would need one.

Right now I'm thinking Jesus' sacrifice IS eternal.

Was it??
Or was only its result eternal??

GodsGrace,

The conclusion revolves around the meaning of the NT Greek , aiwnios (eternal).

What's the meaning of 'eternal' destruction, for example, in 2 Thess 1:9?

Arndt & Gingrich’s Greek lexicon studied aiwnios from the time of the Septuagint. It concluded that it means ‘eternal’ and in many passages, including Matt. 25:46, it means ‘without end … eternal life’ (Arndt & Gingrich 1957:28).

Exegete Richard Lenski explained further regarding 2 Thess 1:9:

Those who find annihilation in it [destruction] would thereby abolish hell, others misunderstand aiwnios and reduce it to a long term which, however, eventually ends. There is no time beyond the last day, either short or long, but only timelessness, eternity, "the eon to come"; this is what the adjective [aiwnios] means, which is true of the zwe or "life" of the blessed as it is true of the "destruction" of the damned. The destruction occurs "away from the Lord's face" and thus in the outer darkness (Lenski 1937:388-389).​

Since the opportunity to take advantage of responding to the Gospel is only in this life on earth, the result of Jesus' sacrifice will be experienced in the timelessness of eternity - either in life or damnation.

Is this what you are driving at or are you addressing a different topic?

Oz

Works consulted

Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).

Lenski, R C H 1937/1946/1961/2001. Commentary on the New Testament: The interpretation of St. Paul’s epistles to the Colossians, to the Thessalonians, to Timothy, to Titus, and to Philemon. [Lutheran Book Concern 1937; The Wartburg Press 1945; Augsburg Publishing House 1961; Peabody, Massachusetts: Hendrickson Publishers Inc. 2001, limited edition].
 
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