IS JESUS' SACRIFICE ETERNAL?

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Nancy

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We are cock-sure, i tell you, and not only that, would much prefer to be absent from the body and present with the Lord right this second, i guess.

Unfortunately the difficulty--meaning impossibility--of serving God while holding this opinion is not so easy to see
Sorry Mark, cock sure about what exactly? Yes, I would rather be present with the Lord, and we see by faith not sight :)
 

Nancy

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imo you have come to believe eternal means forever bc that is what you have been progged to define it as, and pls don't take that wrong ok. If everyone you know is saying A=1 and keeps saying it then why challenge it right.

Eternities end, Nancy; or they do not. And i understand the implications in the knowledge that brings sorrow here, ok, and fwiw what you are doing right now is gutsy as hell imo. That is a bottomless cliff, huh? Fwiw there was a big chunk of time in my life where i would get in trouble for even mentioning this eternity=eon thing, especially in certain circles--the Pentecostal ones who should have known the most imo--and i would have felt compelled to warn you that even contemplating this could cost you all your friends. Would they even blink now?

BTW-My choice to be a follower of Christ has lost me all of my decades old "friends". Except for my best and longest friend Elaine and a very small few others. Her and I and her nephew came to Christ in 1992.
Anyhow- "Who can know Him?"
 

bbyrd009

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So am I gonna meet you there?
who is "I," GG?

we're gonna end up @ "yes" btw imo, sort of, only things are going to be quite a bit diff than advertised i guess? you will have a new name, etc right
so imo the "I" is off, and by "meet" you mean see with literal eyes so that is off--unless i happen to get down there for a visit anyway; from Turin i mean--and the "there" is off too i guess
 
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bbyrd009

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Sorry Mark, cock sure about what exactly?
absent from the body is present with the Lord?
Yes, I would rather be present with the Lord, and we see by faith not sight
yes, see, you "would rather be with the Lord" right now, no shame in admitting it; but of course the Lord is with you right now. So, you would rather be present with the Lord right now, and the Lord is with you right now, right?
 

GodsGrace

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who is "I," GG?

we're gonna end up @ "yes" btw imo, sort of, only things are going to be quite a bit diff than advertised i guess? you will have a new name, etc right
so imo the "I" is off, and by "meet" you mean see with literal eyes so that is off--unless i happen to get down there for a visit anyway; from Turin i mean--and the "there" is off too i guess
I is ME.
Even when we don't have a body but only a soul and spirit, we'll still know who we are. How could it be otherwise? If we don't know who we are, how would we know we made it to heaven?

HOW do you think they'll be different?
And do you believe we'll have a NEW earth which will be "heaven" one day?

Why would the "there" from Turin be off?
 

Taken

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IS JESUS' SACRIFICE ETERNAL? <---- OP

Jesus IS Eternal.
Heb 13:8

Jesus' Sacrifice Was a ONE TIME ACT of Jesus.

Jesus revealed BEFOREHAND What ACT He would do.
John 6:51 GIVE His bodily Flesh.

Scripture reveals TO WHOM "His ACT" would APPLY.
Rom 10:9 IF thou BELIEVE and CONFESS...
Matt 10:32 IF thou CONFESS...
1 John 1:9 IF thou CONFESSES...
1 John 4:15 Whosoever CONFSSES...
1 John 3:9 Whosoever CONFESSED...

Heb 10:10 Jesus' OFFERING reiterated, HIS BODY.

Eph 5:2 Christ's OFFERING and SACRIFICE accomplished.

Heb 10:5 Jesus' OFFERING and SACRIFICE "LIMITED" to ONLY HIS BODY....
NOT His "soul", NOT His "spirit.


What Jesus Gave is revealed....His BODY.
What Jesus Gave was ONCE.
What Jesus Gave IS an OFFERING.
The OFFERING requires a MAN to Accept His OFFERING, for the MAN to Receive Jesus' Offering.
All men FROM Jesus' DAY forward, are "given opportunity" to RECEIVE Jesus' Offering.
All men FROM Jesus' DAY forward, WHO DO, "heartfully" "ACCEPT" Jesus' Offering;
RECEIVE from the Spirit of God....
FURTHER BLESSINGS, Which ARE ETERNAL.

In short....
Jesus' Sacrifice was ONCE, and limited to HIS BODY.
His OFFERING is for ALL men, to choose to receive, or not.
His OFFERING SHALL CONTINUE...

...ACCORDING TO CONDITIONS;
1) LIVING Mortal men are still occupying the earth.
2) LIVING Mortal men must freely exercise their own freewill to accept His offering.
3) LIVING Mortal men HAVE NOT, accepted the MARK/SEAL of allegience TO an OTHER god.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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absent from the body is present with the Lord?
yes, see, you "would rather be with the Lord" right now, no shame in admitting it; but of course the Lord is with you right now. So, you would rather be present with the Lord right now, and the Lord is with you right now, right?

Comprehend the Difference...
A man certainly can be spiritually with the Lord and the Lord with the man ON EARTH,
Bodily, soul, and spirit.
AND
A mans Body can be left on earth, physicaly DEAD, rotting back to dust,
And the Lord with the mans soul and spirit, and the mans soul and spirit WITH the Lord, IN HEAVEN.

Paul is SPECIFICALLY emphasizing...
the Difference of BEING WITH the Lord...
IN HIS HOLY Heavenly Estate, out measures by leaps and bounds than....
BEING WITH the Lord...
ON His FOOTSTOOL (Earth), that is FULL of Corruption.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Taken

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ha, Jesus was not, He is the proxy. Iow you will not find "I was slain from the foundation of the world" anywhere. Jesus was "slain" when some Sanhedrin decided to try to kill Him, not realizing that He gave His life willingly
if i say that it is "right now," is that a part of time? what time is that? Is "right now" a time? Sort of yes, but maybe no, right

iow time can also be considered to be a construct, an artificial index that we measure a "day" by. See, we forget that when we were little kids hearing someone say "what time is it?" reminded us that they were insane, see

Your dilemma is revealed by your own words.
First you reject what the Word says. Then you reveal WHY. (Which always lands on lack of Trusting the Word is True, and lack of Understanding)....Looking for Gods word, according to "your words", is a fail.

Basic knowledge, God speaks His word for Himself, according to Himself. Not according to what men think He should have said.

Jesus IS BEFORE ALL THINGS.
By Him ALL things consist.
Col 1:17

Jesus IS the WORD of God.
John 1:1

Basic reading reveals NOTHING is created or made, WITHOUT Gods, thought, word, power.

Basic reading reveals God IS without beginning or ending.

Basic reading reveals NOTHING existed BEFORE God created or made it.

Basic reading reveals Jesus IS:
The Word, the Lamb, the Power, of God.

Heavenly Morning Stars, revealed, observing the the creation.

Basic reading reveals Gods thoughts are within HIM, Gods word is within Him, Gods power is within Him....and
Gods thoughts, word, power comes forth OUT from God to cause and effect His desires and pleasures be accomplished.

Yes, the Lamb WAS SLAIN, Before, as, during...the foundation of the World (Earth).
Rev 13:8

Observation of the Earth being Created.
Job 38: 4, 5, 6, 7

Thee Heavenly Morning Stars....
The Word of God, (Jesus)...
A Created Holy Angel, called Lucifer...

A revealed BRIGHT Morning Star, (Jesus)
Rev 22:16

A Morning Star (Lucifer) revealed
Isa 14:12

WHO KILLED the WORD of GOD (Jesus).
Isa 14:13
Isa 14:14

When?
John 8:44

His consequence?
Cast DOWN to Earth, out of His FIRST Heavenly Estate.
Loss of his Brightness, his Estate, his Truth, his Holiness, his Name, his Titles, his Integrity, his Honor, his Trustworthiness, his God with him, and he with his God.
(but not his power).

More consequences also revealed.

Basic and brief, and in opposition to what you are promoting.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

bbyrd009

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well, see, me has constructed a veil that separates i from God, we are two men in a bed, see, and one has to be taken ("for a ride" in the sense of the orig term), and the other has to be left (unmolested), code for "the ego is not coming" i guess
Even when we don't have a body but only a soul and spirit, we'll still know who we are. How could it be otherwise? If we don't know who we are, how would we know we made it to heaven?
the premise being that you know who/what you are right now, see, but you say "when we don't have a body, but only a soul and..." yet a body is a "soul," there is no "soul inside a body." imo, and many others, you can highlight/search the relevant phrases up there to get the arguments, and understand i am not saying you have to agree ok, but that your perception...will expand when you are able to even consider this as at least being a possibility, iow you will have to let go of the beliefs that you currently now hold as Absolute Truths, beliefs that are already documented btw, those beliefs already existed long before Christianity or even Judaism, and if you ever speak with a Jew you will learn right quick that they were not seeking immortality like we do anyway
HOW do you think they'll be different?
imo the "I" is off, and by "meet" you really mean "see with my two little eyes" so that is off, and the "there" is off too i guess.
And do you believe we'll have a NEW earth which will be "heaven" one day?
well, yes and no, we have a new earth which is heaven right now, that you can perceive when you go back 100 years and try to describe your current "earth" to them, right, but yes, sure, i believe that tomorrow will be different from today also, and also in "on earth as in heaven."
Why would the "there" from Turin be off?
so that is off, unless i happen to visit you while i am in Turin, wherein two or three might then be gathered in His name--if some need for service were to present itself, which i usually expect and allow for something along those lines to happen now--or the kingdom of heaven within us might be realized, was my meaning there.

Of course it could as easily be "hell," if say your hubby only wants to argue who is right, Catholics or Protestants, or you have an agenda to marry me off to your sister, or i have some agenda, etc
 
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Taken

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Stars get old and die out.

Disagree.

Stars are signs, that represent something.
The Things Stars represent, is severally.

1) The BRIGHT Star, over Bethlehem, was a sign of Jesus manifestation on Earth, as Jesus is Bright, Light.

2) Thousands of Stars in the skys are signs of Gods Holy Angels presence, servants and messengers of God, helpers of God forward to mankind, always present and willing to do Gods will.

3) Stars SEEN, and then NOT SEEN, (fallen) are representative of 3 things.

...1) Holy angels, (having fallen), no longer holy, corrupt, no longer bright, in darkness, no longer serving God or present serving God according to His will.

...2) Earthly powerful Governments, mankind establishes, existing, in corruption, and (fallen) in corruption, extinguished, in darkness, existing no more.

...3) Gods established Governments, from Early beginning of man and forward.

God Bless,
Taken
 

bbyrd009

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Comprehend the Difference...
lol, ok, i will try
A man certainly can be spiritually with the Lord and the Lord with the man ON EARTH,
Bodily, soul, and spirit.
AND
A mans Body can be left on earth, physicaly DEAD, rotting back to dust,
And the Lord with the mans soul and spirit, and the mans soul and spirit WITH the Lord, IN HEAVEN.
ok, ty for playing, but no one has ever gone up to heaven except He Who came down from it, and the kingdom of heaven is within us, the Body of Christ, and you cannot Quote any support for your declarations, see, but wadr i can Quote support for the rest of the day for mine, "you and your sons will be here with me." But fwiw the "nephesh/soul" argument is available online, briefly "soul" to us, our understanding, is not what they understood @ "nephesh."

so iow no offense ok but i am convinced that the ego, the part of us that is dying
to get into immortality and all, to stay relevant, is the very part that has to die before you can even progress any further, and parallel passages even mark out the milestones, even the way one interprets, iow crossing the Red Sea is meaningless, but crossing the Reed Sea is laden with symbology, and particularly one's speech/syntax say when they post, we have vv for this that...will be being honored or violated, etc
 
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bbyrd009

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Paul is SPECIFICALLY emphasizing...
the Difference of BEING WITH the Lord...
IN HIS HOLY Heavenly Estate, out measures by leaps and bounds than....
BEING WITH the Lord...
ON His FOOTSTOOL (Earth), that is FULL of Corruption.
and yet that would have been quite easy to state in clear terms had that been what Paul intended, but i am sure he did not; what he intended was to make an obvious, even glaring statement that he intended to be misinterpreted by those with bad premises, while at the same time still being technically true, thus hiding wisdom from the wise." Hence we now have many who will assure you up one side and down the other that Paul said "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," when that is not true and cannot be Quoted, except maybe in a really bad translation. See, as soon as i hear "but Paul said to be absent from yadayada..." i get to cry 'horse puckey,' and 'adding to Scripture' even, bc there is no "to be" in either "absent from the body" statement, which he said it twice for a reason too

so wadr no, imo Paul is specifically not emphasizing what you say even though it can be read that way, but rather the difference in someone who is operating with bad premises and someone who seeks to serve God wherever they happen to find themselves right now, which is after all the point of the passage, and not this "absent from the body" herring at all, see, that most everyone latches onto with all their might as they boldly misquote and misinterpret it, adding "to be" and forgetting all about "serving God now" whenever they repeat it, i did it too, 40+ years
 
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bbyrd009

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Your dilemma is revealed by your own words.
i have no dilemma, in this area anyway, but ty.

i have perspectives, and opinions, but really they should not be taken too literally either, and i certainly do not mean to make any requirements that others have to believe. i mean, you can try, best of luck, but i can Scripturally refute every single one of your premises up there ok
 
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Taken

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lol, ok, i will try
ok, ty for playing, but no one has ever gone up to heaven except He Who came down from it,

Dude...
BODIES OF MEN, are called men, are FROM dust of the earth, RETURN to dust of the earth.

I have never said they Come DOWN from Heaven or EVER RETURN or GO TO Heaven!

Living Souls of MEN, are called men, are FROM Gods BREATH.
Souls are things God has MADE, are called men.
Isa 57:16
Souls are things that have LIFE, from God.

God is LIFE, LIFE comes out from God INTO things He gives LIFE TO.
John 14:6

God does not destroy LIFE, it's HIS, it Returns to HIM, from whence it came.....Him! In Heaven.

God Gives LIFE and God takes away Life.
Job 1:21

The Body has LIFE, from dust, it's Blood.
Returns to dust, when the BODY dies.

The soul has Life, from Gods breath, it returns to God, (IF SAVED), when the body dies.
Job 33:4
... or goes to Hell separated from God, when the BODY dies.
Luke 16:22
Luke 16:23
Luke 16:26

The spirit (OF SOME MEN) has Life,
1 John 3:9
from Gods Spirit , it returns to God, when the BODY dies.
Ecc 12:7


and the kingdom of heaven is within us, the Body of Christ,

No one has disputed that.

However you appear to have NO regard, or consideration....BODY's of men DIE, return to the Earth.

Life from God, DOES NOT REMAIN IN A DEAD CORPSE....(BODY).

The corpse (body) is buried, marked with the mans NAME.

God is a God of the Living.
Mark 12:27

The living soul of a SAVED SOUL, returns to God, in Heaven. from whence it came, with IT'S SAME NAME.

The quickened spirit of a SAVED SOUL, of a man, returns to God, in Heaven, from whence it came, with IT'S SAME NAME.

and you cannot Quote any support for your declarations,

Of course I can, and did.

see, but wadr i can Quote support for the rest of the day for mine, "you and your sons will be here with me."

As most of your conversing....ties nothing to nothing.....
No scriptural identifier.
No revealing of who, you, your sons, when, here or me is.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

bbyrd009

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As most of your conversing....ties nothing to nothing.....
No scriptural identifier.
No revealing of who, you, your sons, when, here or me is.
the phrase is pretty well known, google can provide the ref that i even put into quotes to make that clear if someone needs the ref, which i thought i had already Quoted that one at you before, so i thought you were fam already ok
that is the now dead Samuel (accepted) speaking to King Saul (rejected) through the Witch of Endor
 

Taken

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i have no dilemma, in this area anyway, but ty.

i have perspectives, and opinions, but really they should not be taken too literally either, and i certainly do not mean to make any requirements that others have to believe. i mean, you can try, best of luck, but i can Scripturally refute every single one of your premises up there ok

Okie Dokie.

When refuting every single one of my premises.....please be thorough, with complete thoughts and references.

Glory to God.
Taken
 

bbyrd009

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Okie Dokie.

When refuting every single one of my premises.....please be thorough, with complete thoughts and references.

Glory to God.
Taken
no, absolutely not, i am not here to give you any fish, and you are not the arbiter of my posts wadr, even if i don't blame you for trying

see, i'm not telling you that you have to do anything, you don't have to listen to me or believe like me, none of that, and imo you are perfectly within your rights to want to be taken, and to sing when we all get to heaven if you want even, fine with me, i have no objections