Is Jesus the only Way?

[farouk]

I don't see how you can separate one from the other. Now, If I become physically separated from my Bible, well, I still have managed to learn a good bit of it. But even so, God is always with me, fully. But even so still, He is the One Who wrote me that Book so I could know Him.

Much love!

He is the living and eternal Word, Who is the central theme of the written Word, and gloriously so in both Testaments.

 

[bbyrd009]

Faith comes.

yeh, a certain way i guess. which maybe implies that it doesnt come with doing the opposite of that. Wow when it is a Written 'a measure of faith', the root there is the same for "wages," out of nowhere. Iow no works, no wage

 

[bbyrd009]

How can we say we love Jesus whom we don't see yet not love the brethren in whom Christ dwells... who we do see?

well, since you asked...walk out your front door this evening--dont even wait for morning, ok--no monay and no spares, and go somewhere else where they dont know you, stay in one house and eat what they feed you.

Going out with the notion that you are to "preach' is entirely up to you, bam do that if that is how you are led. Quite humbling, lemme tell ya lol. It can be done in a weekend even

tell them how they should believe, and when they reject you you can even shake the dust off your feet as you leave. Another gem, particularly poignant when the lesson is finally grasped, could take 2 years or twenty i guess. Again, weekend excursions into unfamiliar territory will suit fine, i guess.

I think we call it "young adulthood"

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Greetings to all...even those who by seeing the OP title are already spoiling for a fight!

The title of the OP is vague in that it brings in an already determined...even set in stone...religious response that tends to be jumped on without a second thought.

So then the OP can mean various things...many of these are presumed. A carnal man will get defensive about his possession of Jesus the way a hungry person looks at his next meal.

We need to be clear on where this is going.

For many people the bible is truth only insofar as they are the ones that are doing the interpreting. So then the bible itself is not being actually respected ...it is the interpretation that it is being given....THAT is what is being respected and trusted as truth. If such a person is corrected by the bible they will ignore the verses that would seem to contradict their stance...and not think twice about it.

We see the same thing with OUR understanding of Jesus...too often an erroneous, programmed and religious idea of Jesus.

Do we really believe the way of Jesus is important? Really? Do we realize that Jesus was far more critical of religious people than of sinners in the flesh?

As in...Sinners and prostitutes will get into the kingdom before you...who are religious hypocrites.

Mat. 21:31 "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you.

Now homosexuality is the "sin du jour" of our time. But is this a carnal sin or a religious sin? If we judge one sin over another...or judge at all...in the class of sin that is with the flesh...are we not doing a greater sin as the pharisees did? Are we not reacting to the flesh as they? Are we not displaying a "sin preference"?

Did Jesus do this? Or did He treat physical sins of the flesh as an ailment of someone who needs a doctor...not condemnation?

The wise will consider this.

I hate the whole idea of homosexuality. But can I not see weakness and brokenness for what it is...without my own judgment and hatreds getting into the mix?

We are to love, not judge. Of course we are to discern and be able to help people. We are here to save lives not kill people or condemn them. Just like Jesus did.

The Homosexual thing was never seen as a problem by me as it was just some clown, but now they are a force to be recon with now, one could say the most powerful mob the world has ever seen and it's this that I can not stand who's dictating to all, you must this and that or else they will use malice so as to destroy all who oppose in any way shape of form what they do.

I hate malice and will point it out for what it is directly.

As for gay people some I even like some them and get on fine but I do not support such at all and they know it, sure they always attack and bag me for being a Christian but I understand that they do not know what they are truly on about, so I let it slide.

I know of people who I do look down on as to their ignorance in playing up on their partner or wife etc etc, so what ! it's my opinion of them and as the years have gone by I have seen such disregard ends in disaster, yes I am correct in my opinion and I will point such out as I see it to them where they are wrong, regardless of who they are. because it's gross disrespecting of another in fact that's the issue and that's the point, not Political Correctness as such is truly just a Whore and in fact truly their is nothing correct in the word "Political" ! it's an oxymoron, not to mention totally in correct, Political Correctness is just a Socialist fantasy of their own desire that they will in force on all who are under their power, Socialism owns everyone under their political system, you all are owned like cattle and they will treat you like cattle.

But Under a truly healthy democratic system the government are servants of the People and each person has freedom to their opinion.

If it were not for our Lord and Saviour our whole history would of all have been one only enslavement and Holy Moses was the one who brought the people out of slavery, enslavement is not for Gods people, as we do not need to be enslaved because we know God and respect that, it's only enslaved people who need to be treated like dupes because they truly have no light, they are under a shadow in darkness and sadly all people who have not life in abundance, only seek to have another tell them what to do and that's why they love Socialism and Political Correctness dribble because they live a lie, they are not serious they are frivolous and only seek for themselves truly and can't see the big picture or because they don't want to, as they like living under a rock like a spider.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

So which is it? Does Jesus point to the bible for salvation...or does the bible point to Jesus for salvation?

And which does the sanctifying? Is it the altar of God or the gift on the altar? Which is the truth...the bible? Or the Person of Jesus?

We have exactly the same problems today that all religious people have had throughout history. These were ignorant of the fact...but we remain ignorant even as we read about them.

In the Bible I recollect, Jesus was talking to the Devil and Jesus pointed out passages of the OT books to the Devil, it is written ? the poor Devil was a cooked duck and knew that Jesus was above him and not his lackey at all and their was nothing that the poor tempter who truly is only a titch in the truth of reality could do about it.

Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour an the Holy Spirit and the Father are all as one. no one can beat that ! and the Bible is the word of God that proves that fact to anyone and that's why it was written, it's the Word of God.

 

[farouk]

Hmmm, just noticed this is in debate forum. Wish I paid better attention to that. Still enjoyed and agree with your post @Episkopos .

I usually take back likes in debate, but not this time.

As to the subject, John 14.6 is clear, isn't it?

(Good to see you again!)

 

[Enoch111]

So then the OP can mean various things...many of these are presumed.

How can "Jesus is the ONLY WAY" mean various things?

It means exactly what it says. No man can be saved except through the Lord Jesus Christ, and that the only way to the Father in Heaven is through the Son. John 14:6.

This is NOT a presumption but a statement of spiritual fact. A statement of God's truth. It is part and parcel of the Gospel -- the Good News -- that those who believe on the Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior are saved for all eternity. That they receive the gift of eternal life and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[prism]

He is the living and eternal Word, Who is the central theme of the written Word, and gloriously so in both Testaments.

And we only know that sort of thing through the written Word and the Spirit's confirmation of that Word.

 

[prism]

Such a fitting comment. You can go back to your kennel. This thread is sound. You are simply overreacting from the flesh...which began when one dog started barking...which sets off the other dogs.

You are free to bark of course.

Show from the bible you think you know...how it doesn't point to God...but rather to itself. And when does Jesus testify of the bible as the way, the truth and the life?

You are stuck with a book...that's all you have. No life.

But that book points to a living God. Seek while there is yet time.

You are so confused that you criticize pointing to God as disrespecting the bible...which is an idol to you.

The bible points to God.

Without that "Book' there would be no way to test the spirits.It would be one person's word against another...

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Act 17:11)

If they checked out the Apostles teaching against the Scripture (and were considered noble for doing so) how much more are we to check out 'prophet Bob' and 'Apostle Gary' against Scripture?

 

[Enoch111]

Such a fitting comment. You can go back to your kennel. This thread is sound.

How can a thread be "sound" when the original poster is willing to insult a child of God (a sheep of Christ) by calling him a dog? In Scripture "dog" is a metaphor for the unclean, the unredeemed, and the wicked.

Episkopos, you have manufactured your own theology -- very similar to Gnosticism -- and all your threads reflect an unbiblical perspective.

TO ALL: BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS WHO COME AS MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

 

[prism]

Mark 12:10 (KJV) And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Mark 15:28 (KJV) And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

Luke 4:21 (KJV) And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

John 2:22 (KJV) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

John 7:38 (KJV) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 7:42 (KJV) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

John 10:35 (KJV) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 13:18 (KJV) I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

John 17:12 (KJV) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 19:24 (KJV) They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

John 19:28 (KJV) After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

John 19:36 (KJV) For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

John 19:37 (KJV) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

John 20:9 (KJV) For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

Acts 1:16 (KJV) Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Acts 8:32 (KJV) The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

Acts 8:35 (KJV) Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Romans 4:3 (KJV) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 9:17 (KJV) For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Romans 10:11 (KJV) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 11:2 (KJV) God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Galatians 3:8 (KJV) And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Galatians 3:22 (KJV) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 4:30 (KJV) Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

1 Timothy 5:18 (KJV) For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

James 2:8 (KJV) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

James 2:23 (KJV) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

James 4:5 (KJV) Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

1 Peter 2:6 (KJV) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

2 Peter 1:20 (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Without Scripture we essentially have no faith.

Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. (Heb 2:1)

'These things which we have heard' were what the Apostles taught orally which we have now in writing. Don't let them slip.Don't fall for those that say we need to be weaned off of God's Word so we can follow the Spirit. Also don't fall for the lie that says we no longer need the OT. These are all doctrines of demons.
We need both God's written Word and God's Spirit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Concerning calling the man a dog: it was the man himself who made allusion to being a sheepdog when he said epi chases away the sheepdogs. So...follow the conversation. One man alluded to epi being a wolf and himself a dog. Epi obliged his allusion.

If I were to call you a wolf and myself a sheepdog, should there be upset if anyone calls me a dog, when I myself did that very thing?

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus put it this way...

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

What is the point in thumping on a bible in the ways of the flesh? Jesus showed us that religion is vain..self-centered.

If I speak of a salvation away FROM the carnal man...the dogs begin to howl. It is a threat to the life of the flesh. So the Adamic survival mechanism kicks in. They are obeying their sinful natures.

What are these doing in the same circles as the brethren? The church is for they who are seeking God in the Spirit...not they who justify themselves in the flesh and attack others. But it has always been this way.

We are to be changed into the image of Christ...not think of salvation IN the Adamic nature. But there is no change in many here on this thread as well as in the churches in general.

Does God receive a person walking by the flesh? Only in humility. He gives grace to the humble. But the many who come to Him in their proud flesh looking for salvation in that condition are in for a sorry surprise. The weeping and gnashing of teeth that is to come is for they who remained unchanged in the carnal natures...coming to God in the flesh but without humility or the fear of the Lord.

This is from the good news translation (GNT) and I find it to be accurate in this area...


Rom. 8:6 To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by the Spirit results in life and peace.
7 And so people become enemies of God when they are controlled by their human nature; for they do not obey God's law, and in fact they cannot obey it.
8 Those who obey their human nature cannot please God.
9 But you do not live as your human nature tells you to; instead, you live as the Spirit tells you to - if, in fact, God's Spirit lives in you. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

We are to forsake the power of the human nature since the devil has it within his own realm. We are to be saved AWAY from captivity to the devil through a bondage to the carnal nature. The truth sets us free from that bondage. But the truth cannot be received by those who defend their bondage to the flesh.

But we see just how far into the churches the devil has penetrated by giving the flesh a false hope...a false assurance. The good news is salvation FROM sin...not in sin.

They who remain in the bondage of the Adamic nature are plain to see...as they love to reveal themselves and their true natures among us. It must be so. Hopefully some of these will become saved away from the condemnation these are heaping up for themselves.

As it says...

1 Corinthians 3:3
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

No change from the fallen man. At least not yet.

A Christian, even from the very beginning is known in this..

Ephesians 4:2-3
with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

But we always have this....

1 Cor. 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

 

[Nancy]

Jesus put it this way...

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

What is the point in thumping on a bible in the ways of the flesh? Jesus showed us that religion is vain..self-centered.

If I speak of a salvation away FROM the carnal man...the dogs begin to howl. It is a threat to the life of the flesh. So the Adamic survival mechanism kicks in. They are obeying their sinful natures.

What are these doing in the same circles as the brethren? The church is for they who are seeking God in the Spirit...not they who justify themselves in the flesh and attack others. But it has always been this way.

We are to be changed into the image of Christ...not think of salvation IN the Adamic nature. But there is no change in many here on this thread as well as in the churches in general.

Does God receive a person walking by the flesh? Only in humility. He gives grace to the humble. But the many who come to Him in their proud flesh looking for salvation in that condition are in for a sorry surprise. The weeping and gnashing of teeth that is to come is for they who remained unchanged in the carnal natures...coming to God in the flesh but without humility or the fear of the Lord.

This is from the good news translation (GNT) and I find it to be accurate in this area...


Rom. 8:6 To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by the Spirit results in life and peace.
7 And so people become enemies of God when they are controlled by their human nature; for they do not obey God's law, and in fact they cannot obey it.
8 Those who obey their human nature cannot please God.
9 But you do not live as your human nature tells you to; instead, you live as the Spirit tells you to - if, in fact, God's Spirit lives in you. Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

We are to forsake the power of the human nature since the devil has it within his own realm. We are to be saved AWAY from captivity to the devil through a bondage to the carnal nature. The truth sets us free from that bondage. But the truth cannot be received by those who defend their bondage to the flesh.

But we see just how far into the churches the devil has penetrated by giving the flesh a false hope...a false assurance. The good news is salvation FROM sin...not in sin.

They who remain in the bondage of the Adamic nature are plain to see...as they love to reveal themselves and their true natures among us. It must be so. Hopefully some of these will become saved away from the condemnation these are heaping up for themselves.

As it says...

1 Corinthians 3:3
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

No change from the fallen man. At least not yet.

A Christian, even from the very beginning is known in this..

Ephesians 4:2-3
with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

But we always have this....

1 Cor. 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

Good post.
"1 Cor. 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized."

I've never read this scripture in that way. Huh...interesting! This must also go with "You will know them by their fruits"
Question: This seems to be saying that in this world, there will always be factions within the Church? What if the leaders of the Church are in error, and that causes factions? I have heard the arguments during the member meetings between the pastor and the elders. It seems that only they were able to really express themselves. Anybody else, who is NOT in leadership was shut right down, ALL we were allowed to do was vote . Needless to say, I no longer go there. ♥

 

[tzcho2]

How can a thread be "sound" when the original poster is willing to insult a child of God (a sheep of Christ) by calling him a dog? In Scripture "dog" is a metaphor for the unclean, the unredeemed, and the wicked.

Episkopos, you have manufactured your own theology -- very similar to Gnosticism -- and all your threads reflect an unbiblical perspective.

TO ALL: BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS WHO COME AS MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Some show they have very POOR judgment here and will Affirm False Teachers by supporting their posts.
Stunning isn't it?

 

[tzcho2]

Concerning calling the man a dog: it was the man himself who made allusion to being a sheepdog when he said epi chases away the sheepdogs. So...follow the conversation. One man alluded to epi being a wolf and himself a dog. Epi obliged his allusion.

If I were to call you a wolf and myself a sheepdog, should there be upset if anyone calls me a dog, when I myself did that very thing?

Your question: "should there be upset if anyone calls me a dog, when I myself did that very thing?"

Yes because it's Obvious the twisting of the meaning was to equate dog= as INSULT
The sheepdog is reference to the Bible as those whose spiritual discernment was used as watchdogs by warning of wolves in the sheep fold.

 

[Episkopos]

Question: This seems to be saying that in this world, there will always be factions within the Church? What if the leaders of the Church are in error, and that causes factions? I have heard the arguments during the member meetings between the pastor and the elders. It seems that only they were able to really express themselves. Anybody else, who is NOT in leadership was shut right down, ALL we were allowed to do was vote . Needless to say, I no longer go there. ♥

According to the NT ALL have a say...all participate in the meetings. I think the problem is due to a misunderstanding of what ministry is. We are to help empower others...not ourselves. So we see the difference between self-promotion and the promotion of others.

Big difference!
Glad you left that place!

 

[Episkopos]

Your question: "should there be upset if anyone calls me a dog, when I myself did that very thing?"

Yes because it's Obvious the twisting of the meaning was to equate dog= as INSULT
The sheepdog is reference to the Bible as those whose spiritual discernment was used as watchdogs by warning of wolves in the sheep fold.

In your dreams that is. Your arrogance is such that you equate your own behaviour with anything biblical.. besides the religious hypocrites who ASSUMED they had a ministry of guarding the truth...like the Pharisees. A dog in sheep's clothing.

Where is your sheepdog reference?...in the real world...in the bible you idolize even as you disrespect it?

What is astounding is that you don't see yourself and your behaviour as unholy.

One would think reading about the hypocrites in the bible would be a big clue.

You should be able to see yourself in there. But the blindness is total. No self-awareness. No knowledge of any truth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Your question: "should there be upset if anyone calls me a dog, when I myself did that very thing?"

Yes because it's Obvious the twisting of the meaning was to equate dog= as INSULT
The sheepdog is reference to the Bible as those whose spiritual discernment was used as watchdogs by warning of wolves in the sheep fold.

So...your objection is that it was meant as an insult...? Is calling someone a wolf not an insult?

Because you can't have it both ways.

Why not just stick to the debate?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Some show they have very POOR judgment here and will Affirm False Teachers by supporting their posts.
Stunning isn't it?

That is your debate answer...?