Is Jesus the "third temple"?

[Earburner]

More avoiding the issue of the RULE over the nations in future tense in Rev 19 proving people will be alive to be ruled over after Armageddon. Amill cannot acknowledge this, and none can dispute it so they just try to change the subject.

Verb tenses are very important and should never be ignored. If I said, "I'm at the store buying (present tense verb) the ingredients for Spaghetti so I can cook (future tense verb) Spaghetti for you." No one should think I was cooking Spaghetti in the store. Clearly the buying is at a different time than the cooking. It's the same with the events of Revelation 19. There are verbs there in the present tense regarding smiting and treading which are violent actions and they take place during that battle. There is another event mentioned there about ruling over people but it is written in the future tense proving it happens AFTER the violent events. The ruling is not happening during the violent events of the second coming and the battle of Armageddon. Furthermore the Greek word for "rule" means to take care as a Shepherd would so the rule is peaceful which makes sense. There is a battle and a lot of killing, then non-military/civilian survivors are cared for in a Shepherding sense. That happened in wars the United States was in such as after WW2 was over, we actually helped Germany and Japan rebuild.

The RULING in Rev. 19 is being misunderstood by premil.
God's ruling with "a rod of iron" does nothing but break into shivers all the "clay pots", who have not taken advantage of God's Grace through His Son Jesus.

The true meaning of God's ruling is found in the words of John 3:18, which are the two judgments of God.
We who are born again by His Spirit, are now made to be an holy nation of priests and kings unto God, and are the ambassadors of Christ, extending to all, God's ruling of His Grace of being either "not condemned", or "condemned already".
Edit #1: Rev. 2
[26] And he that overcometh [he that hath my Spirit now], and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power [of the Gospel of Christ] over the nations:
[27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father [which is John 3:18].

For all who do receive Him, through faith in Christ now, while still alive, they are restored and established in fellowship with Him, having Peace with God.

For all who ignore and shun Him, they are left to continue their mortal lives under the wrath of God, being that they are condemned already., which is clearly shown in Rev. 19:17-21
On the Day of His Glorious return, Rom. 8:9 will apply.

Edit #2:
Rev. 2:19[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of ALL men, both free and bond, both small and great.
> Who are ALL those people?
Ans. The very same people who take the "mark of the beast".
Rev. 13
[16] And he causeth  ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[ewq1938]

The RULING in Rev. 19 is being misunderstood by premil.
God's ruling with "a rod of iron" does nothing but break into shivers all the "clay pots", who have not taken advantage of God's Grace through His Son Jesus.

Wrong. That is the opposite of the definition of RULE in the Greek plus that IGNORES the verb tense proving the ruling happens AFTER Armageddon. Amill MUST ignore the verb tense to continue falsely teaching.


RULE

G4165
poimaino
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
poimaino
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

There is nothing violent about poimaino.

 

[Jay Ross]

Is Jesus the third Temple?

Is not this Idolatry on man's part, having a temple to worship?

If I remember rightly, Jesus told Israel that they do not have the means to rebuild the temple period and that they will become the laughingstock of the nations around them.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus's body cannot be the third Jewish temple because Jesus is in heaven when the AC comes but prophecy says he will stand in the temple of God. I'm all for this temple being symbolic but Jesus is in heaven and the AC is on the Earth. I think it's a better interpretation that he is inside of Christians in a spiritual sense which causes the Apostasy.

1Co_3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The AC will defile the temple of some people, and he will be destroyed for it.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (APOSTASY), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The RULING in Rev. 19 is being misunderstood by premil.
God's ruling with "a rod of iron" does nothing but break into shivers all the "clay pots", who have not taken advantage of God's Grace through His Son Jesus.

Although a rod of iron can destroy a clay pot, it doesn't mean that the pot, once destroyed, becomes useful to the owner. Similarly, destroying one's enemies, which can be compared to breaking a pot, is not beneficial if the enemies are no longer present and the ruler has lost their control. Destroying a nation means losing the ability to rule it.

 

[Ghada]

2. His church is members of His body on earth and in His presence in heaven, and is His temple.
> In #2 you are half correct.
By His Holy Spirit within us, we are members of His body, being that of His invisible church of Born Again Christians, that are "peppered" in all the visible Denominations. All of such are waiting for Jesus' visible return, to be bodily resurrected

His visible church on earth are us alive and remaining on earth. His invisible church in heaven, are them in His presence with their bodies in the grave. Those invisible saints can be seen in Rev 6 at His altar and throneroom.

3. His kingdom temple on earth in Jerusalem will be built by His own hands, and He will sit on His throne of glory therein for a thousand years ruling over all nations.
> As for #3, you went sideways, and upside down. We, who will be in our glorified, Immortal bodies, are not going to rule over mortals that die.

The resurrected Jesus will and so will His resurrected saints. You don't believe in the Lord inheriting all nations of the earth and ruling them with equity and judgment, This includes His resurrected saints with the same rod of iron and right scepter in His heavenly kingdom on earth.

The grace of God will have ended in the Day of Jesus' Glorious and Immortal return.

The Bible doesn't say this. The sheep entering in His kingdom on earth will all be newborn Christians in Him, just as today.

The everlasting gospel of Jesus Christ never ends. (Rev 14)

The nations of the earth will be flowing up the King in Jeruslaem to hear His word and worship Him. Those who do not will be punished for their rebellion.

There will be no second chances in a wannabe KoG on earth, for another one thousand years.

There will be for the sheep that helped the Lord by helping the least of His saints during their tribulation on earth.

Such a belief is signing up to Jewish folklore.

The old prophecy of the Lord inheriting and judging and ruling all nations on earth, is not Jewish folklore, but old prophecy of Christ through His prophets.

 

[Earburner]

Wrong. That is the opposite of the definition of RULE in the Greek plus that IGNORES the verb tense proving the ruling happens AFTER Armageddon. Amill MUST ignore the verb tense to continue falsely teaching.


RULE

G4165
poimaino
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
poimaino
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

There is nothing violent about poimaino.

Thank you, I like that.
Through your definitions, you walked yourself right into the Lord's present day "sheepfold" describing it, and STILL you ignore the spiritual and scriptural time of the amil view.
Let me put it this way:
Since the Day of Pentecost to now, it's called the Age of God's Grace, of which God Himself has set no time limit on it. To Him it's the most important thing that He and His Son have done, and are STILL DOING, SAVING PEOPLE from eternal death and destruction.

Even Jesus knew that it was going to be a long undisclosed amount of time, but never did He know exactly when God's Grace would end.
Peter "guesstimated": A thousand years? To him, It might've been. But today, for our thinking, its now been 2023 years and then some!

There is no future 1000 year KoG on earth, after Jesus returns in all His Immortal Glory. Whatever will you do with every person who will have taken the "mark of the beast"? Premil has NO answer!

You have traded out the prophecies of all the NT scriptures, by using the false Jewish counting of each day of creation equals 1000 years. Sorry God's Grace is not on a calendar of Jewish fabrication.

 

[ewq1938]

Thank you, I like that.
Through your definitions, you walked yourself right into the Lord's present day "sheepfold" describing it, and STILL you ignore the spiritual and scriptural time of the amil view.

Amill teaches that the RULE is present tense and happening at Armageddon and involves violence. That ignores the verb tense and the definition of the word. Amill does not understand that the rod of iron is used to break up nations but when RULING the rod is peaceful.

There is no future 1000 year KoG on earth, after Jesus returns in all His Immortal Glory.

That is wrong. Rev 19 proves it, along with many scriptures.

Whatever will you do with every person who will have taken the "mark of the beast"? Premil has NO answer!

The mark is not mandatory. Apparently Amill doesn't understand that.

You have traded out the prophecies of all the NT scriptures, by using the false Jewish counting of each day of creation equals 1000 years. Sorry God's Grace is not on a calendar of Jewish fabrication.

lol, we haven't been discussing anything about the days of creation. Stay on topic and stop using red herring fallacies.

 

[Earburner]

Amill teaches that the RULE is present tense and happening at Armageddon and involves violence. That ignores the verb tense and the definition of the word. Amill does not understand that the rod of iron is used to break up nations but when RULING the rod is peaceful.

Your description of rule fits the church, ever since Pentecost. We who are Born again Christians, are NOW made to be priests and kings unto God. We are that holy nation.
That "rod of iron" is John 3:18. We all have the choice of either eternal life, or eternal death. There are no second chances.

I don't adhere to "word crunching" by "the wisdom of men", but rather the Bible and "the mind of Christ that is within me". 1 Cor. 2:5.
I have no need that any man should teach me. 1 John 2:27

The mark is not mandatory. Apparently Amill doesn't understand that.

Correct! I understand it far better than you think!
We are on the cusp of it now, being that of digitized money, with a Digital ID.
It will be voluntary, of which the majority of the world population, of 8 billion people (pending a WW3 situation), will comply, even that of professing Christians and numerous denominations, who will have "fallen away" from having faith in Christ.

lol, we haven't been discussing anything about the days of creation. Stay on topic and stop using red herring fallacies.

Like I said, you have traded out all the prophecies of the NT scriptures, for the Jewish fabrication of the 7 days of creation is equal to 7000 years. Do you not understand the foundational makings of the premil doctrine??

 

[Earburner]

Amill teaches that the RULE is present tense and happening at Armageddon and involves violence. That ignores the verb tense and the definition of the word. Amill does not understand that the rod of iron is used to break up nations but when RULING the rod is peaceful.

I understand how Jesus meant it. If you are looking for world peace, then count Jesus out!! He is going to return from heaven, in flaming fire, causing total destruction through the wrath of God.
Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

 

[ewq1938]

Your description of rule fits the church, ever since Pentecost. We who are Born again Christians, are NOW made to be priests and kings unto God. We are that holy nation.
That "rod of iron" is John 3:18.

The RULE mentioned in Rev 19 happens after Arm. and the second coming. Saying the rod of iron rule over the nations is now violates the accepted fact that Rev 19 is the Second coming.

 

[ewq1938]

I understand how Jesus meant it. If you are looking for world peace, then count Jesus out!! He is going to return from heaven, in flaming fire, causing total destruction through the wrath of God.
Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

lol, why do you think quoting Christ out of context helps you? It just shows you don''t understand what you are talking about.

RULE in the future tense in Rev 19 and RULE meaning a peaceful rule disproves a large chunk of Amill's false teachings.

 

[Earburner]

lol, why do you think quoting Christ out of context helps you? It just shows you don''t understand what you are talking about.

RULE in the future tense in Rev 19 and RULE meaning a peaceful rule disproves a large chunk of Amill's false teachings.

I understand that you are in a dream state, lulled to sleep by church-ianity, aka the wisdom of men.
You are wilfully and purposely being "ignorant" of KJV Luke 17:26-30, 2 Thes. 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:3-15 (compare vs. 8-9 with 15) and learn that the symbolic 1000 years is about God's "longsuffering towards us", during His present Age of Grace through Jesus, ever since Pentecost.

The premil theory is diametrically opposed to NT scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

I understand that you are in a dream state, lulled to sleep by church-ianity, aka the wisdom of men.

Personal insults are the tools of those devoid of anything else.

The premil theory is diametrically opposed to NT scripture.

No, that is Amill. You are forced to ignore the future tense of RULE because it destroys your beliefs. Hope you are sleeping well.

 

[Jay Ross]

No Jesus is not the temple, He is just the corner stone from which the temple is constructed.

 

[Earburner]

There is a battle and a lot of killing, then non-military/civilian survivors are cared for in a Shepherding sense.

That scenario of Armageddon is the beast and his armies fighting against the Lord Jesus and His army.

You say that there will be (mortal) survivors. I say absolutely not!!
But, for the sake of argument, let's say that there are mortal survivors.
Out of 8 billion people presently in the world, there are left one million survivors, and ALL the saints are taken up with Jesus, that means that the one million people, who took the MoB*, can NEVER ENTER into the KoG, whether that be in heaven or on the earth.
Rom. 8:9 will surely apply towards the one million survivors who took the MoB, of which will have NO future life of mortal existence....anywhere on earth, or in heaven!!

Unless of course....premils believe that God extends extra grace (a second chance) to those who took the MoB. If so, then that would be a blatant lie, hatched straight out of satan's mouth.

*Note: KJV Rev. 13
[16] And he causeth ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that NO MAN [as in NO ONE] might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[Earburner]

No Jesus is not the temple, He is just the corner stone from which the temple is constructed.

Rev. 21
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy [heavenly-Gal. 4:26] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

 

[ewq1938]

That scenario of Armageddon is the beast and his armies fighting against the Lord Jesus and His army.

You say that there will be (mortal) survivors. I say absolutely not!!

The text proves it so there is no arguing against it. You can't and haven't even addressed teh rule being in the future tense. It happens AFTER Armageddon. No Amill will even touch this fact. All false doctrines contradict the text of scripture. They can only exist in the imaginations of the believers.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say that there are mortal survivors.
Out of 8 billion people presently in the world, there are left one million survivors, and ALL the saints are taken up with Jesus, that means that the one million people, who took the MoB*

Not all take the mark. The living survivors of the GT didn't and if those rebel Christians didn't and lived, so could many deceived non-Christians or former Christians.

, can NEVER ENTER into the KoG, whether that be in heaven or on the earth.

Regarding the Earth and the Millenial kingdom: That is not a rule. You have made that up.

Unless of course....premils believe that God extends extra grace (a second chance) to those who took the MoB. If so, then that would be a blatant lie, hatched straight out of satan's mouth.

*Note: KJV Rev. 13
[16] And he causeth ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that NO MAN [as in NO ONE] might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

All does not mean every person else no one would be raptured. The 144k don't take it nor do the two witnesses. It means ALL in the sense of the most important people down to lowest people...ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE, ALL TYPES etc. The same language speaks of the types of people in the army of the beast in Rev 19.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev. 21
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy [heavenly-Gal. 4:26] Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

That is the future not now and it is a symboplic temple as it makes clear no temple was seen.

 

[Earburner]

Personal insults are the tools of those devoid of anything else.

You seem to be pretty good at it yourself, by "laughing out loud" at me:
"lol, why do you think quoting Christ out of context helps you? It just shows you don''t understand what you are talking about."