Is Man Mortal or Immortal?

[Davy]

Man is ultimately immortal. His soul and spirit are immortal now while the body is mortal. At teh second resurrection the last of the disembodied souls will be rejoined with their bodies and all will be fully immortal body, soul and spirit.

There's that's doctrine from paganism again that others here have tried to put in The Bible. It's the pagan religions that believed that souls are made immortal. The Bible teaches no such idea. Not understanding this difference is because of not understanding the difference between flesh and spirit, and the concept of flesh death vs. spiritual death.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that life that God gave when he breathed into Adam a living Soul is everlasting.

It’s Gods breathe that makes us alive, isn’t it? The Life giving Soul? The breath of life? The only thing is we are spiritually dead until coming to truth of God and Christ.

The reason why I believe the soul is everlasting because I believe everyone who dies and leaves this life, especially since Jesus had came, died, and resurrected, are all resurrected.

I do not see any other reason to believe that souls are extinguished into nonexistence.

I could be wrong these are just my opinions,

God bless,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[quietthinker]

Is Man Mortal or Immortal?
It's a peculiar question.....unless you've never seen the maggots at work on a cadaver.
The very word 'immortal' implies diminishment is not a factor.

Yes, yes, we have all these sub headings of spirits going somewhere and souls going some other place but these are just constructs to shore up the denial that once the breath leaves the body and the golden crown is broken we end up as maggot food (bless the little critters; they do a good job!)

Everything is worth a second look but to miss the obvious speaks poorly of a man's cognition.

 

[Davy]

I believe that life that God gave when he breathed into Adam a living Soul is everlasting.

It’s Gods breathe that makes us alive, isn’t it? The Life giving Soul? The breath of life? The only thing is we are spiritually dead until coming to truth of God and Christ.

The reason why I believe the soul is everlasting because I believe everyone who dies and leaves this life, especially since Jesus had came, died, and resurrected, are all resurrected.

I do not see any other reason to believe that souls are extinguished into nonexistence.

I could be wrong these are just my opinions,

God bless,
Matthew Gallagher

Once again, that kind of thinking is from the old beliefs of pagan religion, especially from the Far East with doctrines like reincarnation. Did you know that some of the Jews at Jesus' 1st coming also believed in the doctrine of reincarnation? (Matthew 16:13-14)

One of the problems of God's people living in Old Testament times is they believed God's Breath breathed into Adam created a soul made out of material matter that dies with the flesh, and both together are resurrected. Many Jews to this day still believe that old superstitious idea with the false doctrine of dead in the ground 'soul sleep'.

But even back as far as Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, God through Solomon revealed two distinct and different operations involving how God created man. Solomon showed that we have a flesh body made up of the earth's matter, and that we have a spirit that comes from God (which obviously is NOT material matter). He also showed there is a "silver cord" that attaches the two while alive, but when severed, each part goes back to where it came from. So right there even, back that far in God's Old Testament Word, there is proof that our soul-spirit is not of fleshy material matter. But then some today who love their 'soul sleep' superstition will still say that "spirit" in Eccl.12 only means an animating force that is in all living things, and not about our soul. That is an old superstitious Jewish doctrine, because The New Testament specifically teaches that our spirit with soul cannot be separated, but our spirit and soul can... be separated from our flesh.

Then in The New Testament, this difference is further explained by Lord Jesus and His Apostles, like in Matthew 10:28, and by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Corinthians 5 especially. Lord Jesus made specific distinction between the two also in John 3 to Nicodemus.

 

[MatthewG]

Sorry Davy, what do you think about God having giving life? Does the life he gives cease to exist? We know that our soul lives in the fleshly body for those who have came to this truth. The soul was God given? And we make a choice with what we do with ourselves having been created in the image of God.

Those are my questions, since you openly just suggest what I’m saying deals with paganism I dismissed reading your comment.

Can we please try to stick to the biblical narrative here? And your thoughts on the biblical narrative with God and him having gave all people on this earth life now today, to be able to live and experience life. God does send rain on the just and the unjust out of care for them, even if the person. Flat out rejects God. God will give them over to their desires, though his desire is for them to come to the truth according the Bible itself.

What are you thoughts about these things? Are they true or false ?

 

[RR144]

Joshua 1:2
Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.
that proves the body dies!

The soul also dies - Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

proves the soul lives on after physical death!

This is of course a parable.

Mark 12:25-27 King James Version
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. 26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living:

ye therefore do greatly err. proves people do not cease to exist after physical death.

This simply shows that when True Christians die they go to heaven

Luke 16:22-23 King James Version
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom Proves physical death does not end existence.

Again, a parable

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Proves that man has an immaterial part that continues to live!

Really? Is that what it says?

Revelation 19 King James Version
19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. 5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

People are in heaven shouting and rejoicing! Before the first resurrection which occurs later.

Again, nothing in these verses shows that man has an immortal soul, simply that those who make up the body of Christ, the Church, will go to heaven. That said 1. Timothy 6:16 tells us that only Jesus has immortality. Of course that would include God, and any that are part of the first resurrection.

Romans 2:7 tells us we "seek" immortality "eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality." If we possess immortality, why are we seeking it?

1 Corinthians 15:53, 54 tells us we "put on immortality", not possess it.
"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”"

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Berean,

Thank you for the thread. I do not know if you look and take all scripture as literal and you take on the approach of sola scriptura and make it apply literally.

Even so with that said:

Would the soul that sins that dies be dying from lack of nutrition from abiding in the vine of Christ? Having a loss of heart/mind/will/emotion?

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Also in connection with this scripture Jesus has paid for all sin. For the soul that does sin. (The soul interacts with the body for the soul (spirit of man, given by God) is the heart/mind/will/emotion of the person created in the image of God)However the soul that sins dies? But dies in what way is the question.

 

[Enoch111]

It's the pagan religions that believed that souls are made immortal.

Actually every religion in the world believes in an afterlife. But the Bible makes it crystal clear that the souls of men are IMPERISHABLE. The human body is mortal, and becomes dust, but is also subject to resurrection. But the term "mortal" only applies to the body. Souls do not perish but remain alive after death. Those who are in Christ go to be with Him in Heaven. Those who are not in Christ go to Hades (formerly Sheol) to await their final judgment -- which is eternal damnation (not annihilation).

 

[MatthewG]

To follow up with Enoch,

A thought occurred to me.

If anywhere in the Bible it had said “and the soul is obliterated”

I would change my mind about the soul being immortal. However the Bible doesn’t suggest souls are obliterated.

The Bible instead says the soul that sins shall die: meaning a loss - diminishing return in my opinion.

The (soul) heart/mind/emotion/will of the person will always be focused on earthly things and because of whatever may take ahold of the person they will have a loss of quality of life. One thing about sin the sin of an unbelieving heart.

A believing heart will have a renewed quality of life that is restored and comes from above, not coming from the world. The spirit is the new given way of life in which one still lives and earthly life but tends to focus on the spirit things from above, heavenly.

Having a rested soul in Jesus, and the word is able to save our soul. From wha the Bible says. That means save our (mind/will/emotion/heart), having relationship with God.

The flesh is not the soul and the soul is not the body. You are made soul, and body. always remember. Your soul is you, it is your mind, will, emotion, and the mind and heart are synonymous with each other. Your soul interacts with your body when you decide to use it. The flesh i believe (I could be wrong) falls more in the capabilities of our sinful nature and fleshly proclivities based on our own desire which is opposed to God and his way.

That is why when reading you see heart/mind/will/emotion all together. Always remember this and it will help you, understand the soul. You can also be encouraged to look up, the word body, in Hebrew and Greek, and also the word flesh. You can also look up the word spirit. Then you can understand the consistency of man and what you are made of.

 

[quietthinker]

But the Bible makes it crystal clear that the souls of men are IMPERISHABLE.

You parade your ignorance on the matter like a badge of honour Enoch!

 

[Enoch111]

You parade your ignorance on the matter like a badge of honour Enoch!

Since I Bible on my side, it does not matter what you state ignorantly.

 

[quietthinker]

Since I Bible on my side, it does not matter what you state ignorantly.

So you double down on your ignorance in your pride all the while trying to persuade the poorly informed.....tch tch tch!

 

[EloyCraft]

There's that's doctrine from pagani
sm again that others here have tried to put in The Bible. It's the pagan religions that believed that souls are made immortal. The Bible teaches no such idea. Not understanding this difference is because of not understanding the difference between flesh and spirit, and the concept of flesh death vs. spiritual death.

Jesus was unambiguous about life after death. A seed must die first before growing into a tree. He expressed what happens when we die like this" when you enter into life".
God would not create an immortal creature without the power to know it's nature.
The beasts can't know an afterlife because they lack reason. To know the concept of life after death is proof that it belongs to the one knowing.

 

[RR144]

Actually every religion in the world believes in an afterlife. But the Bible makes it crystal clear that the souls of men are IMPERISHABLE. The human body is mortal, and becomes dust, but is also subject to resurrection. But the term "mortal" only applies to the body. Souls do not perish but remain alive after death. Those who are in Christ go to be with Him in Heaven. Those who are not in Christ go to Hades (formerly Sheol) to await their final judgment -- which is eternal damnation (not annihilation).

And still not one scriptural evidence to support your thought.

 

[EloyCraft]

And still not one scriptural evidence to support your thought.

What part of @Enoch111 post isn't found in Scripture? I'm curious. Which concept isn't found expressed by the sacred authors?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Really? Is that what it says?

Yes that is what it says, literally.

The soul also dies - Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

IN Israel soul was used as body and soul. context determines. It wasn't tilkl around this time that ?God revealed the bichotoumous nature of man and the sould lived on after physical death.

This is of course a parable.

No it is not. No comparative terms like all other parables, no comparisons between physical and spiritual, torment and paradise were well accepted truths in the time of Jesus. And without a grammatic tell such as "is likend unot" "is as" this would be the ony parable Jesus started with "There was a man". I prefer the more simple truth-There was a man! All th ereintpretations of this account I have seen in 47 years are all sad.

This simply shows that when True Christians die they go to heaven

Well Abraham is not a Christian. But they are alive after physical death which is th epoint!

The soul also dies - Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."


This is of course a parable.


This simply shows that when True Christians die they go to heaven

Again, a parable

Really? Is that what it says?


Again, nothing in these verses shows that man has an immortal soul, simply that those who make up the body of Christ, the Church, will go to heaven. That said 1. Timothy 6:16 tells us that only Jesus has immortality. Of course that would include God, and any that are part of the first resurrection.

Romans 2:7 tells us we "seek" immortality "eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality." If we possess immortality, why are we seeking it?

1 Corinthians 15:53, 54 tells us we "put on immortality", not possess it.
"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”"

AQnd Paul is referring ot the mortal corruptible body and not the soul and spirit which are immortal. Teh body dies but that is all.

 

[Enoch111]

And still not one scriptural evidence to support your thought.

It is for a Berean to search out the scriptural evidence, not be spoon-fed.

 

[Davy]

Actually every religion in the world believes in an afterlife. But the Bible makes it crystal clear that the souls of men are IMPERISHABLE. The human body is mortal, and becomes dust, but is also subject to resurrection. But the term "mortal" only applies to the body. Souls do not perish but remain alive after death. Those who are in Christ go to be with Him in Heaven. Those who are not in Christ go to Hades (formerly Sheol) to await their final judgment -- which is eternal damnation (not annihilation).

Incorrect, God's Word makes it clear that the 'soul' is not immortal and CAN PERISH!

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

The word "hell" above is 'geena', pointing to the valley of Hinnom as a symbol for the Revelation 20 "lake of fire" in the future. That future event is called the "second death" in Revelation 20.

 

[RR144]

It is for a Berean to search out the scriptural evidence, not be spoon-fed.

I guess none of you are Bereans, because I've done nothing but spoon feed you

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Adam's spirit, soul and body were immortal until He sinned. And ours are mortal until we are born again and our soul and spirit becomes immortal, but the body of those born again must wait until it too dies and is physically resurrected, changed and puts on immortality.