Psalm 22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.David or this messianic passage is applied to a person meaning that the worm is symbolic of a person.Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.The sinner is compared to a worm that "dieth not". He isn't compared to a worm that dies.
Is punishment in hell eternal?
- Thread starter Vindicated
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Your not getting the time frame here right I think thats your confusionthere is no judgement to death (second death) until after the millieium after the thousand years has passed.We are changed into spirit bodies. At the second coming 7th trump everyone ALL sinner and non sinner there is no flesh on earth after Christ returns heaven(Gods kingdom) is here on earth and flesh and blood can not enter heaven. then we have a 1000years in spirt bodies with a soul during this 1000 years some are in hell, some are learning the real truth of God, some are the first resurrected and rule with Christ, after this 1000 years Satan is let loose for a short time too test the ones taught. Then comes the Judgement and some are to die the second death and cease to exist. No more remembered this is Satan fate. And then a new heaven and earth. With No sin
RaddSpencer
New Member
- Mar 28, 2008
- 285
- 0
- 0
- 44
(kriss;50298)
Your not getting the time frame here right I think thats your confusionthere is no judgement to death (second death) until after the millieium after the thousand years has passed.We are changed into spirit bodies. At the second coming 7th trump everyone ALL sinner and non sinner there is no flesh on earth after Christ returns heaven(Gods kingdom) is here on earth and flesh and blood can not enter heaven. then we have a 1000years in spirt bodies with a soul during this 1000 years some are in hell, some are learning the real truth of God, some are the first resurrected and rule with Christ, after this 1000 years Satan is let loose for a short time too test the ones taught. Then comes the Judgement and some are to die the second death and cease to exist. No more remembered this is Satan fate. And then a new heaven and earth. With No sin
Then why does Rev 20 and Matthew 25 discuss being tormented day and night forever and ever, and an everlasting punishment respectively?Notice the "Forever and ever" and the "Everlasting" part.
Your not getting the time frame here right I think thats your confusionthere is no judgement to death (second death) until after the millieium after the thousand years has passed.We are changed into spirit bodies. At the second coming 7th trump everyone ALL sinner and non sinner there is no flesh on earth after Christ returns heaven(Gods kingdom) is here on earth and flesh and blood can not enter heaven. then we have a 1000years in spirt bodies with a soul during this 1000 years some are in hell, some are learning the real truth of God, some are the first resurrected and rule with Christ, after this 1000 years Satan is let loose for a short time too test the ones taught. Then comes the Judgement and some are to die the second death and cease to exist. No more remembered this is Satan fate. And then a new heaven and earth. With No sin
Then why does Rev 20 and Matthew 25 discuss being tormented day and night forever and ever, and an everlasting punishment respectively?Notice the "Forever and ever" and the "Everlasting" part.
S
sosthenes
Guest
(kriss;50298)
Your not getting the time frame here right I think thats your confusionthere is no judgement to death (second death) until after the millieium after the thousand years has passed.We are changed into spirit bodies. At the second coming 7th trump everyone ALL sinner and non sinner there is no flesh on earth after Christ returns heaven(Gods kingdom) is here on earth and flesh and blood can not enter heaven.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. Jesus ascended to His Father so I assume that flesh can enter heaven.I come from a different background than you so I communicate from what I know which comes from the word.I would love to know what you believe on the rapture, the end times, the timing and so forth and why rather than get something pulled out of a book but then everyone has to be willing to have this discussion so I can hear your viewpoint.
Your not getting the time frame here right I think thats your confusionthere is no judgement to death (second death) until after the millieium after the thousand years has passed.We are changed into spirit bodies. At the second coming 7th trump everyone ALL sinner and non sinner there is no flesh on earth after Christ returns heaven(Gods kingdom) is here on earth and flesh and blood can not enter heaven.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. Jesus ascended to His Father so I assume that flesh can enter heaven.I come from a different background than you so I communicate from what I know which comes from the word.I would love to know what you believe on the rapture, the end times, the timing and so forth and why rather than get something pulled out of a book but then everyone has to be willing to have this discussion so I can hear your viewpoint.
(sosthenes;50305)
(Kriss;50298)
Your not getting the time frame here right I think thats your confusionthere is no judgement to death (second death) until after the millieium after the thousand years has passed.We are changed into spirit bodies. At the second coming 7th trump everyone ALL sinner and non sinner there is no flesh on earth after Christ returns heaven(Gods kingdom) is here on earth and flesh and blood can not enter heaven.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.Jesus ascended to His Father so I assume that flesh can enter heaven.I come from a different background than you so I communicate from what I know which comes from the word.I would love to know what you believe on the rapture, the end times, the timing and so forth and why rather than get something pulled out of a book but then everyone has to be willing to have this discussion so I can hear your viewpoint.You are assuming that flesh can enter heaven? That clearly contradicts I Corinthians 15:50. And Christ was not in His flesh when He ascended to Heaven. He was in His spiritual body...
(Kriss;50298)
Your not getting the time frame here right I think thats your confusionthere is no judgement to death (second death) until after the millieium after the thousand years has passed.We are changed into spirit bodies. At the second coming 7th trump everyone ALL sinner and non sinner there is no flesh on earth after Christ returns heaven(Gods kingdom) is here on earth and flesh and blood can not enter heaven.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.Jesus ascended to His Father so I assume that flesh can enter heaven.I come from a different background than you so I communicate from what I know which comes from the word.I would love to know what you believe on the rapture, the end times, the timing and so forth and why rather than get something pulled out of a book but then everyone has to be willing to have this discussion so I can hear your viewpoint.You are assuming that flesh can enter heaven? That clearly contradicts I Corinthians 15:50. And Christ was not in His flesh when He ascended to Heaven. He was in His spiritual body...
S
sosthenes
Guest
(thesuperjag;50313)
You are assuming that flesh can enter heaven? That clearly contradicts I Corinthians 15:50. And Christ was not in His flesh when He ascended to Heaven. He was in His spiritual body...
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.Act 1:9 ¶ And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Hebrews 9:7 But into the second [went] the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and [for] the errors of the people: Hebrews 9:11 ¶ But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. Jesus entered into the more perfect tabernacle which was not made with hands and by his own blood he entered into the holy place having obtained eternal redemption. I'm assuming that the more perfect tabernacle shows the context that it is heaven "by his own blood".
You are assuming that flesh can enter heaven? That clearly contradicts I Corinthians 15:50. And Christ was not in His flesh when He ascended to Heaven. He was in His spiritual body...
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.Act 1:9 ¶ And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Hebrews 9:7 But into the second [went] the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and [for] the errors of the people: Hebrews 9:11 ¶ But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. Jesus entered into the more perfect tabernacle which was not made with hands and by his own blood he entered into the holy place having obtained eternal redemption. I'm assuming that the more perfect tabernacle shows the context that it is heaven "by his own blood".
S
sosthenes
Guest
(thesuperjag;50313)
You are assuming that flesh can enter heaven? That clearly contradicts I Corinthians 15:50. And Christ was not in His flesh when He ascended to Heaven. He was in His spiritual body...
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
You are assuming that flesh can enter heaven? That clearly contradicts I Corinthians 15:50. And Christ was not in His flesh when He ascended to Heaven. He was in His spiritual body...
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(sosthenes;50305)
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. Jesus ascended to His Father so I assume that flesh can enter heaven.I come from a different background than you so I communicate from what I know which comes from the word.I would love to know what you believe on the rapture, the end times, the timing and so forth and why rather than get something pulled out of a book but then everyone has to be willing to have this discussion so I can hear your viewpoint.
sosthenesThis was after Christ was crusified that he ascended, he was not in his flesh body it had been killed, this was his spirit body that arose not flesh.Do not think that the spirit body is like a ghost it has substance as Christ proved after he was killed he could be seen touched, ect. Well you can read much of my opinions on this here but I do not believe in any pre-trib rapture it is not written in the Word.Its called a theory because thats what it is a theroy of men. And I believe the parable of the fig tree that the End time season started in May 1948 with the restablishment of the State of Israel for the first time in almost 2000 years.but lets not get into these discussions here but feel free to start a thread on any of these subjects.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God. Jesus ascended to His Father so I assume that flesh can enter heaven.I come from a different background than you so I communicate from what I know which comes from the word.I would love to know what you believe on the rapture, the end times, the timing and so forth and why rather than get something pulled out of a book but then everyone has to be willing to have this discussion so I can hear your viewpoint.
sosthenesThis was after Christ was crusified that he ascended, he was not in his flesh body it had been killed, this was his spirit body that arose not flesh.Do not think that the spirit body is like a ghost it has substance as Christ proved after he was killed he could be seen touched, ect. Well you can read much of my opinions on this here but I do not believe in any pre-trib rapture it is not written in the Word.Its called a theory because thats what it is a theroy of men. And I believe the parable of the fig tree that the End time season started in May 1948 with the restablishment of the State of Israel for the first time in almost 2000 years.but lets not get into these discussions here but feel free to start a thread on any of these subjects.
(RaddSpencer;50304)
Then why does Rev 20 and Matthew 25 discuss being tormented day and night forever and ever, and an everlasting punishment respectively?Notice the "Forever and ever" and the "Everlasting" part.
Day and night is a relative term I could explain this more but no sense going off topic. We are clearly told in other verse's what will happen to Satan he is turned to ashes burnt up forever and ever the smoke raises up. There is no contradiction in Gods Word so it is our lack to understand these things fully. To use these verse's to assume they mean things that are contradicted elsewhere or not in Gods nature is just to make assumptions. There clearly is a hell of burning during the millieum but what this is exactly is debatable (as God is a consuming fire)and when there is a new heaven and new earth all things are forgotten and new so forever only lasts as long as one remembers it, And the word used here for forever means AgeSo they are only tortured until the End of this age the 1000 years of the millieum In Ezekiel 28:16-19, Satan is promised that he will be destroyed from within and turned to ashes. Once a soul is turned to ashes, it is finished. Satan can cause harm to your body but only God can destroy your soulheres another veiw of this you may gleen more from[url="http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/special1.htm]http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/special1.htm[/url]
Then why does Rev 20 and Matthew 25 discuss being tormented day and night forever and ever, and an everlasting punishment respectively?Notice the "Forever and ever" and the "Everlasting" part.
Day and night is a relative term I could explain this more but no sense going off topic. We are clearly told in other verse's what will happen to Satan he is turned to ashes burnt up forever and ever the smoke raises up. There is no contradiction in Gods Word so it is our lack to understand these things fully. To use these verse's to assume they mean things that are contradicted elsewhere or not in Gods nature is just to make assumptions. There clearly is a hell of burning during the millieum but what this is exactly is debatable (as God is a consuming fire)and when there is a new heaven and new earth all things are forgotten and new so forever only lasts as long as one remembers it, And the word used here for forever means AgeSo they are only tortured until the End of this age the 1000 years of the millieum In Ezekiel 28:16-19, Satan is promised that he will be destroyed from within and turned to ashes. Once a soul is turned to ashes, it is finished. Satan can cause harm to your body but only God can destroy your soulheres another veiw of this you may gleen more from[url="http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/special1.htm]http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/special1.htm[/url]
(RaddSpencer;50237)
I have to admit, I've never seen an explanation of hell like this before. This is a new one, and I think it is incorrect.First of all, no one is in hell right now. The unsaved are in a "holding cell" called hades (otherwise known as sheol). They are awaiting the final judgment which is showcased in Revelation.This webpage has more info:http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/hades.html"This is not the ultimate hell (Greek: gehenna) referred to in Matthew 10:28, the same as the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15). Hades is another compartment in the pit… where the spirits of the unsaved dead are confined until the day of judgment. They were not set free when Christ freed the spirits of the faithful, but are still there" (Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defenders Study Bible).As for torment in hell being eternal --- it most certainly is. During the final judgement, Jesus himself will look at our "rap-sheet" to see where our eternal home will be. Look at the verses below:31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:31-46What can I say, the bible speaks for itself. Jesus will send people to hell, into everlasting punishment. Why, because He is the God of justice, thats why. We all know that the "Wages of sin is death" --- well if you don't know Jesus, its time to collect your wages!!! Romans 6:23 I like how ChristianAnswers.net "sums hell up":[url="http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html]http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html[/url] We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?Photo copyrighted. Courtesy of Eden Communications.It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, "God is love," all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God.
Well said Radd.
I have to admit, I've never seen an explanation of hell like this before. This is a new one, and I think it is incorrect.First of all, no one is in hell right now. The unsaved are in a "holding cell" called hades (otherwise known as sheol). They are awaiting the final judgment which is showcased in Revelation.This webpage has more info:http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/hades.html"This is not the ultimate hell (Greek: gehenna) referred to in Matthew 10:28, the same as the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15). Hades is another compartment in the pit… where the spirits of the unsaved dead are confined until the day of judgment. They were not set free when Christ freed the spirits of the faithful, but are still there" (Dr. Henry M. Morris, The Defenders Study Bible).As for torment in hell being eternal --- it most certainly is. During the final judgement, Jesus himself will look at our "rap-sheet" to see where our eternal home will be. Look at the verses below:31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:31-46What can I say, the bible speaks for itself. Jesus will send people to hell, into everlasting punishment. Why, because He is the God of justice, thats why. We all know that the "Wages of sin is death" --- well if you don't know Jesus, its time to collect your wages!!! Romans 6:23 I like how ChristianAnswers.net "sums hell up":[url="http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html]http://www.christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html[/url] We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder ; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?Photo copyrighted. Courtesy of Eden Communications.It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, "God is love," all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God.
Well said Radd.
(kriss;50273)
Well thats religion for you ignore Gods Word because men say differnt God makes a new heaven a new earth and therre is no sin nor any firey pit nor does God enjoy burning people forever butsee what ever way you chose. The bible is about this age not the next.
Why in the world would you toss someone into an everlasting fire if the person isn't an everlasting person. Why not just put them in a fire that will burn till they are all destroyed. It is clear from scripture as many have shown that the fire is everlasting even Jesus said the fire will never be quenched nor die ot and that worm there doesn't die. nothing there dies. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, The rich man certainly didn't seem to have burn't out but seemed to be in continual torment. Hell is eternal it's one of the reasons Jesus warned sternly against it.
Well thats religion for you ignore Gods Word because men say differnt God makes a new heaven a new earth and therre is no sin nor any firey pit nor does God enjoy burning people forever butsee what ever way you chose. The bible is about this age not the next.
Why in the world would you toss someone into an everlasting fire if the person isn't an everlasting person. Why not just put them in a fire that will burn till they are all destroyed. It is clear from scripture as many have shown that the fire is everlasting even Jesus said the fire will never be quenched nor die ot and that worm there doesn't die. nothing there dies. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, The rich man certainly didn't seem to have burn't out but seemed to be in continual torment. Hell is eternal it's one of the reasons Jesus warned sternly against it.
S
sosthenes
Guest
(kriss;50383)
sosthenesThis was after Christ was crusified that he ascended, he was not in his flesh body it had been killed, this was his spirit body that arose not flesh.Do not think that the spirit body is like a ghost it has substance as Christ proved after he was killed he could be seen touched, ect.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.If Jesus says he has "flesh" and "bones" then I believe him.1 Cr. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. The "sown" or "natural" body is raised a "spiritual" body but it is the same body only changed or caused to rise (egeiro) which is what the definition means.John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.If Jesus calls his body the "temple" then it is because there is some permanance because Jesus is the door.And why should it suprise you that Jesus has a body? 1 Cor. 15:51-52 says "this mortal" shall put on immortality and the word athanasia speaks of the body of the believer.Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: "Image" also speaks of a body.Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, The word "bodies here is "soma" and it speaks of dead bodies coming out of the grave.Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. If Jesus isn't coming back in a body then how does a spirit body become pierced?Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. How does a spirit appear as if it had been slain? Only if it had been the same body that was slain.
sosthenesThis was after Christ was crusified that he ascended, he was not in his flesh body it had been killed, this was his spirit body that arose not flesh.Do not think that the spirit body is like a ghost it has substance as Christ proved after he was killed he could be seen touched, ect.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.If Jesus says he has "flesh" and "bones" then I believe him.1 Cr. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. The "sown" or "natural" body is raised a "spiritual" body but it is the same body only changed or caused to rise (egeiro) which is what the definition means.John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.If Jesus calls his body the "temple" then it is because there is some permanance because Jesus is the door.And why should it suprise you that Jesus has a body? 1 Cor. 15:51-52 says "this mortal" shall put on immortality and the word athanasia speaks of the body of the believer.Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: "Image" also speaks of a body.Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, The word "bodies here is "soma" and it speaks of dead bodies coming out of the grave.Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. If Jesus isn't coming back in a body then how does a spirit body become pierced?Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. How does a spirit appear as if it had been slain? Only if it had been the same body that was slain.
S
sosthenes
Guest
(kriss;50385)
In Ezekiel 28:16-19, Satan is promised that he will be destroyed from within and turned to ashes. Once a soul is turned to ashes, it is finished. Satan can cause harm to your body but only God can destroy your soulheres another veiw of this you may gleen more fromhttp://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/special1.htm
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. If we take "figurative" language literally then they were dead and brought back alive because they "lived not again" until the thousand years were finished.Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
In Ezekiel 28:16-19, Satan is promised that he will be destroyed from within and turned to ashes. Once a soul is turned to ashes, it is finished. Satan can cause harm to your body but only God can destroy your soulheres another veiw of this you may gleen more fromhttp://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/special1.htm
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. If we take "figurative" language literally then they were dead and brought back alive because they "lived not again" until the thousand years were finished.Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
S
sosthenes
Guest
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. The word "destroy" also speaks of ruin in the sense that the body is rendered useless.Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. If hell destroys then you must wonder why Satan isn't destroyed before he can be loosed.
S
sosthenes
Guest
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. There are two parallels here: everlasting punishment and life eternal.If a person is annihilated, they wouldn't feel anything because that punishment is temporal but you have to be conscious to and not die to feel everlasting punishment.
I repeat the Word forever and ever is aion and means an Age this age ends. When there is a new heaven and New earth. I dont get what you are saying clearly Jesus was killed in the flesh the incorruptible body he took on is the same our soul/spirit will have when we are all changed as I said it has substance its not a ghost flesh and blood can not enter heaven (the kingdom of God) so it is written.
RaddSpencer
New Member
- Mar 28, 2008
- 285
- 0
- 0
- 44
(kriss;50491)
I repeat the Word forever and ever is aion and means an Age this age ends.
Eh?How can this be the case? How can the Greek version of "forever and ever" be a finite amount of time?
I repeat the Word forever and ever is aion and means an Age this age ends.
Eh?How can this be the case? How can the Greek version of "forever and ever" be a finite amount of time?
RaddSpencer
New Member
- Mar 28, 2008
- 285
- 0
- 0
- 44
(kriss;50503)
It was the way the interpters chose to interpt it into English
So, does "Everlasting" mean the same finite amount of time in greek?I mean come on, It doesn't make logical sense for the translators to translate an age (finite amount of time) into "forever and ever" (infinite amount of time).
It was the way the interpters chose to interpt it into English
So, does "Everlasting" mean the same finite amount of time in greek?I mean come on, It doesn't make logical sense for the translators to translate an age (finite amount of time) into "forever and ever" (infinite amount of time).
Did you ever read an english dictionary where there is more than a single meaning to a Word? Its perptully throughout an entire age,eternity a World, a time of ones lifetime. The translators used the same word for ones lifetimeDuet.15:12- then you shall take an awl and thrust it through his ear to the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also to your female servant you shall do likewise. the same word is used here it obviously doesnt mean forever except to that person "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:6 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev.20:14 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Rev. 21:8 So, we should not automatically assume that the wicked will be tormented for eternity. Instead, the wicked will only be tormented for a certain period of time, as long as they are alive, as prescribed by the judgement. This should make sense, that the meaning is not forever, since the wicked themselves are not immortal. They have a limited life-span. To say it is just cut and dried forever and ever in mans meaning of the Word has little biblical support in this reference. So it is with understanding the deeper timings of Gods. In this case I believe there is plenty of evidence to support this Aion means the fullness of the Age. Then all becomes new and there is no sin. The only support it has is men took it literally and made a doctrine of it in many churches.
Similar threads
- Replies
- 5
- Views
- 298
- Replies
- 3
- Views
- 193
- Replies
- 0
- Views
- 196
- Replies
- 68
- Views
- 1K
