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Is punishment in hell eternal?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Vindicated, May 23, 2008.

  1. RaddSpencer

    RaddSpencer New Member

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    Did you ever read an english dictionary where there is more than a single meaning to a Word? Its perptully throughout an entire age,eternity a World, a time of ones lifetime. The translators used the same word for ones lifetime then you shall take an awl and thrust it through his ear to the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also to your female servant you shall do likewise. Deuteronomy 15:12-17 the same word is used here it obviously doesnt mean forever except to that person So it is with understanding the deeper timings of Gods. In this case I believe there is plenty of evidence to support this Aion means the fullness of the Age. Then all becomes new and there is no sin. To say it is just cut and dried forever and ever in mans meaning of the Word has little biblical support in this reference. The only support it has is men took it literally and made a doctrine of it in many churches.
    If what you say is true, it has scary connotations. Why should we trust the bible if "forever and ever" and "Everlasting" is actually a complete misinterpretation. We all know that an infinite amount of time is not finite.The way you talk about "man interpreted it like this but it actually means this" -- shows me that the bible may have been completely misinterpreted into English, and that frankly, we cannot really know what the Bible is really supposed to say.This is a favorite Weak Atheistic (Agnostic) argument (ie we cannot truly know what God wants, God frankly cannot or is unwilling to communicate correctly with us)."Epistemological atheism argues that people cannot know God or determine the existence of God"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtheismWhat can I say, I take the Bible at face value. I figure that the various multiple English translations would not be all wrong.Which is it, Is the Bible an extremely complex Greek labyrinth meant to confuse us or not?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    because you have to understand when the proper context applies Example when we are told forever in a persons life it can only mean until that life ends. Here we are talking punishment until the second death ends that life. If we were talking about something else we have to take context and other verse's into account to get the meaning one does not fit all The bible has later upon layer of teaching. I mentioned the bible is about this age. clearly there is another a new heaven and a new earth there are other words that apply to God as being eternal thats why language in the orignal form is so important its not like english. Example: in the Hebrew there are 19 differnt words used for the word "mark" each with a little differnt meaningthe English translates them all as the same english word "Mark" (as in mark the spot)to understand a verse in great detail you need to find the Word that was orginally used and its meaning the English will generalize it.But some words dont even have an English equvilant.
     
  3. RaddSpencer

    RaddSpencer New Member

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    (kriss;50523)
    because you have to understand when the proper context applies Example when we are told forever in a persons life it can only mean until that life ends. Here we are talking punishment until the second death ends that life. If we were talking about something else we have to take context and other verse's into account to get the meaning one does not fit all The bible has later upon layer of teaching. I mentioned the bible is about this age. clearly there is another a new heaven and a new earth there are other words that apply to God as being eternal thats why language in the orignal form is so important its not like english. Example: in the Hebrew there are 19 differnt words used for the word "mark" each with a little differnt meaningthe English translates them all as the same english word "Mark" (as in mark the spot)to understand a verse in great detail you need to find the Word that was orginally used and its meaning the English will generalize it.But some words dont even have an English equvilant.
    What can I say, I disagree with you. I frankly don't think the "original" language is that important. If the information encapsulated within the original language was not correctly transmitted, then we are in serious trouble (and someone needs to retranslate the bible).Let me give you an example:When I post this post, my computer will communicate with this server over the internet. Well many different hardware "languages" (Layer 2) are involved to send the IP packets from my computer to the server.My computer to the cable modem: Ethernet protocol is involvedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EthernetCable Modem to my ISP: Info is translated to Docsis 2.0 over Cablehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSISISP to Tier 1 service: Info is translated to SONET protocol (Optical fiber)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SONET/SDHTier 1 service to server: PPPOE over DSLhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSLOf course, this is highly hypothetical (I have no idea what hardware my messages are traveling over), but the idea is this... the information still gets there even though different hardware is used.So why should I see the "ethernet channel" (like English) being somehow unable to correctly transmit God's ideas versus say the "PPP channel" (Greek)?I don't agree with you and Denver on this one, either English correctly communicates the ideas, or it does not. If it does not, we need to abandon English and learn a language which CAN communicate God's ideas correctly.BTW, I'm not an English/language major, if you are curious. Language is frankly not my area of interest
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Well your choice to make understanding the scriptures were not written in English and that the languages help teach you the meat of Gods Word one is always in danger of only having the milk and never seeing the meat.
     
  5. sosthenes

    sosthenes Guest

    (kriss;50505)
    So it is with understanding the deeper timings of Gods. In this case I believe there is plenty of evidence to support this Aion means the fullness of the Age. Then all becomes new and there is no sin. The only support it has is men took it literally and made a doctrine of it in many churches.
    If (aion) is meant to be temporary, then the following assumptions must be considered to be true: Gods Glory is only temporary (1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 22:5; Jude 1:25; Matt. 6:13, Gal. 1:5; Rom. 1:23; Phil. 4:20) Gods righteousness is only temporary, this would imply that God is a sinner! (cf. 1 Tim. 1:17, 6:16; 1 Pet. 1:23; Jude 1:25; Jn. 12:34; Jn. 14:16; 2 Cor. 9:9)God is not immortal, He dies eventually (cf. 1 Tim. 1:17; 6:16; 1 Pet. 1:23; Jude 1:25; Rev. 10:6; Matt. 6:13) The Kingdom of God evetually ends (Rev. 22:5; Dan. 7:18; Jude 1:25; Matt. 6:13; Eph. 1:21)God's Wisdom is only temporary (cf. 1 Tim. 1:17; Rom. 16:27; Jude 1:25) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting (aion - temporary). Amen. (1 Timothy 6:15,16)And these shall go away into everlasting (aion - temporary) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aion - temporary). (Matthew 25:46)Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation (aion - temporary). (Mark 3:28,29) According to the precise context of Jesus' very own words, we can forget about the Hope of Living Eternally with God!!! In Mark 3:28,29 we clearly see the contrast between "shall be forgiven" and "hath never forgiveness," (aphesin eis ton aiona). The word (aiona) is used to mean eternal duration in these verses (Matt. 21:19; Mk. 11:14; Jn. 4:14; 6:51; 6:58), and the adjective (aionios) also used to describe eternal duration (2 Cor. 4:18; Heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 5:10; 2 Pet. 1:11; Heb. 9:15; 2 Cor. 5:1). The contrast and context of Mark 3:28,29 refutes Universalism, since the person is guilty of eternal sin, and the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23)
     
  6. sosthenes

    sosthenes Guest

    (kriss;50530)
    Well your choice to make understanding the scriptures were not written in English and that the languages help teach you the meat of Gods Word one is always in danger of only having the milk and never seeing the meat.
    On page 4, I posted a list of twelve Bible versions that have translated aion "everlasting" and people like Matthew Henry knew Greek and they translated it the same way and there aren't really any reliable Bibles that translate it differently except Young's which is literal and that doesn't pose me a problem because it says "age during" which sounds eternal to me. If you don't know Greek as well as a second or third language then anyone will have to look it up just like I have to look it up and how can you or anyone say they can come up with a better translation than the twelve or so translations that already agree with each other?Jesus said,"I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore [eis tous aionas ton aionon] (Rev. 1:17-18, NASB).Revelation 20:10: "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon]."Both verses have the same construction and if you translate one a certain way then you have to be consistent and translate the other one the same way. Dr. Gleason Archer is one of the translators of the New American Standard Bible and he said in his Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties that there was no getting away from this.
    WORD STUDY ON "AIONIOS":'AIONIOS' LIFE MEANS ETERNAL LIFE The New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries, Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains, The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged Greek-English Lexicon, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, the secular Greek-English lexicon by Bauer, and many many other lexicons define "aionios" and its family of words, ("aionion", "aioniou") to mean "without beginning or end" and "eternal". This meaning is based on usage of the word over the centuries by the people to whom the ancient koine Greek language was native. Plato, Phocylides, Philo, Clement, Diodorus Siculus, Arrianus, Josephus, Maximus Tyrius, Ignatius, Homer are among those who used this meaning of the word "aionios" .[Compare Ezek 37:26]:"I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them...........[Heb] olam = [Grk] aionios[Septuagint]; and I will give blessings to them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore" [Heb] olam = [Grk] aionios [Septuagint]God's covenant was unilateral - so it would not be broken - therefore it was for all time: "forevermore". None of His unilateral covenants were for a season or an age. All of His unilateral covenants were for an eternity and God does not renege on His promises.
     
  7. sosthenes

    sosthenes Guest

    (RaddSpencer;50509)
    Which is it, Is the Bible an extremely complex Greek labyrinth meant to confuse us or not?
    If you took the different views and mapped them out with a systematic theology approach, you could get all the verses which prove each view and see which view had more merit. There are modern day teachers who are lieing to their listeners and there are other teachers who make mistakes just like everyone makes mistakes. And then there are teachers who know they are wrong and they know what they are teaching.The Bible is not a labyrinth but it can be understood.Mar 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. Luk 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have. Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Why is everybody twisting the Truth of God? *sigh* I know it happens everyday but I will never know why men chose to take that ugly path...Of course I do realize some are actually searching...
     
  9. sosthenes

    sosthenes Guest

    (thesuperjag;50549)
    Why is everybody twisting the Truth of God? *sigh* I know it happens everyday but I will never know why men chose to take that ugly path...Of course I do realize some are actually searching...
    If you go to the art museum, people paint Jesus according to what their culture would wear. If the artist was Italian then Jesus looked Italian and if the artist was Spanish or Mexican then Jesus looked that way.If you favor a dictionary or belief, would you translate the Bible to favor euthanasia or annihilationism if you felt that God was too loving to let people suffer or would you let the existing translations speak for themselves?
     
  10. RaddSpencer

    RaddSpencer New Member

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    Well your choice to make understanding the scriptures were not written in English and that the languages help teach you the meat of Gods Word one is always in danger of only having the milk and never seeing the meat.
    I found this interesting website. What can I say, I think the English translations are correct --- and the convey the information correctly:The significant passage in support of eternal conscious punishment is Matthew 25:41–46. The usual argument is that just as Jesus was promising believers everlasting life, unending bliss with Him, He was also threatening unbelievers with everlasting punishment. In an extensive argument Fudge attempts to show that when applied to nouns that speak of a resulting condition (such as punishment), does not denote eternity as it does when modifying nouns that refer to activities (such as punishing). Yet he does not discuss the matter of parallelism in verse 46 , namely, that if in the one case (life) the adjective means eternal, it must also mean eternal in the other phrase (punishment). The parallelism requires that if life for believers is of everlasting duration, punishment for unbelievers must be also.23 Perhaps most impressive, because of its source, is thisstatement by John A. T. Robinson, a universalist: The genuine universalist will base nothing on the fact (which is a fact) that the New Testament word for eternal (aionios) does not necessarily mean everlasting, but enduring only for an indefinitely long period. For he can apply this signification to "eternal punishment" in Matt 25:46 only if he is willing to give exactly the same sense to "eternal life" in the same verse . As F. D. Maurice said many years ago now, writing to F. J. A. Hort: "I did not see how aionios could mean one thing when it was joined with kolasis and another when it was joined with zoe" (quoted, J. O. F. Murray, The Goodness and Severity of God, p. 195). To admit that the two phrases are not parallel is at once to treat them with unequal seriousness. And that a true universalism must refuse to do.24Another issue in this passage may provide some guidance. The place to which the "goats" are consigned in the judgment of the sheep and goats is "the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels" (v. 41). Revelation gives more information on this future condition of the devil. The beast and the false prophet will be "thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone" (19:20 ). Then the devil will be cast into the same lake (20:10 ), and they "will be tormented day and night forever and ever" (v. 10). Then verse 15 states that "if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." While these verses only say explicitly that the devil, the beast, and the false prophet will be tormented forever and ever, no statement suggests that the persons whose names are not written in the book of life have any different fate in the lake of fire. This supports the view that the punishment spoken of in Matthew 25:41, 46 is also everlasting in nature.Is this fire everlasting, however? According to Revelation 14:11 the smoke from this fire of torment of the beast and the false prophet will be forever. Fudge and others contend that the smoke, not the punishment, is everlasting. However, how there can be smoke without something being burned? If these bodies are burned up, consumed, destroyed, how can there still be smoke? What would produce smoke, unless something was burning? For that matter, why would the lake of fire continue to exist, with nothing left to burn?Another point needing evaluation is Stott's contention that the contrast between life and punishment requires maximum difference. That means that if the former is eternal, the latter is not. One must ask, however, whether this is really so. On whatevidence is that contention based? And if it is valid, what does it really require? It would seem that the greater contrast would be between the eternality of "life" and the eternality of "punishment." Overall, this argument for annihilationism is not overly impressive.[url="http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/article_hell_erickson.html]http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/artic...l_erickson.html[/url]So, if it is the case that punishment will be for a short duration, maybe our stay in heaven will be equally as short.Maybe we only get to enjoy heaven for 1000 years, and then, after that time period, we also cease to exist.God is not irrational; He would not give some people an "everlasting" A and give others a "temporary" F. (And as you know, students are responsible for their own grades).
     
  11. RaddSpencer

    RaddSpencer New Member

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    (sosthenes;50550)
    If you go to the art museum, people paint Jesus according to what their culture would wear. If the artist was Italian then Jesus looked Italian and if the artist was Spanish or Mexican then Jesus looked that way.If you favor a dictionary or belief, would you translate the Bible to favor euthanasia or annihilationism if you felt that God was too loving to let people suffer or would you let the existing translations speak for themselves?
    Here is something else that website said:The idea of the wicked being obliterated rather than suffering endlessly will continue to appeal to sensitive Christians. Yet emotion cannot be the primary consideration in settling theological issues. In this case the biblical and theological data weigh strongly on the side of eternal conscious punishment of the wicked. http://www.theologicalstudies.org.uk/artic...l_erickson.html
     
  12. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    As I said its all about rightly diving and context we know God is eternal we also can not deny the Word Aion was used in terms of a human life time in places.If one wants to believe burning in hell forever is what is taught and thats the nature of God thats ones choice however it cause's contradictions in the Word sense God says the second death is the End so one must apply the Word in context it by no means puts any of the above verse's in danger of not being true because God has no end so no contradiction is made. There are no contradictions in Gods Word when something causes a contradiction we must look to us misunderstanding something. In this case its eternal hell vs second death and other scripture so one must reconsider what you think scripture saysIn the case of God being eternal there is no contradiction so the same reasoning can not be applied. As I said one size does no fit all.
     
  13. RaddSpencer

    RaddSpencer New Member

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    And these shall go away into everlasting (aion - temporary) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aion - temporary). (Matthew 25:46)
    Kriss, do you know what that means?That changes the entire gospel, and the entirety of the Good news!Whats so "Good" about the good news if the reward is just a temporary farce?its like you are saying that God is unable or unwilling to give us an eternal home with Him.if you say the punishment is temporary, the reward is also temporary, BECAUSE they have the SAME context. They are both within the same sentence, and they use the same word to describe the period of time!
     
  14. sosthenes

    sosthenes Guest

    Kriss,Is Hitler just going to be annihilated and not have to suffer or is he going to burn in hell for all eternity?If we're going to be annihilated then is there any real meaning to vengeance? I mean if Hitler and I suffer the same fate then is there any real meaning to vengeance?Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. These verses lose their meaning if we are just annihilated at the end:Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. How would it be more tolerable if we suffer the same fate? How will it be vengeance?Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Are we going to get the same reward as annihilation? If you take away hell then what can possibly punish us?If you aren't supposed to have received a beating in the old testament that was greater than your crime (Deuteronomy 25:2-3) then wouldn't it hold true that giving someone like Hitler the punishment of annnihilation be too lenient?What about the punishment listed in Exodus 21:23-25? Can Hitler pay eye for eye and tooth for tooth? Can Hitler pay for six million lives? If you aren't under grace then the law has to be applied but the problem is that sin begets sin so I'm not sure there is any end to his crime against humanity and sin still has to be punished.Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? How can Hitler receive sorer punishment if he is annihilated?Even this passage indicates that some people do suffer for eternity in hell:
    Revelation 14:9-11; 20:10 [14:9] "...If anyone worships the beast and his image... [14:10] he will be tormented [basanisthesetai] with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [14:11] And the smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis aionas aionon]; and they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and his image,...[20:10] And the Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon]."
    So I think this passage has importance because it indicates that someone will suffer for eternity in hell.Sosthenes
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    He will suffer for a thousand years as God says God finds that enough before he completly annihalets him if you dont find Gods punishment enoughthen believe what you choose. Im not telling you what to believe just what the language and verse's say.It doesnt matter to me what you believe Im only telling you what I understand the Word to say. The rest is up to the individual I and many others see a contradiction to this idea. arguing with me doesnt change what the Word Aion means and how its applied here compared with other places and when it cause's a contradiction in Gods Word.The fault is with the reader not the Word. If You choose believe in eternal hell and contradictions in the Word dont bother you, be my guest its not my place to tell you what to believe I can only tell you what it says.
     
  16. sosthenes

    sosthenes Guest

    (kriss;50644)
    He will suffer for a thousand years as God says God finds that enough before he completly annihalets him if you dont find Gods punishment enoughthen believe what you choose. Im not telling you what to believe just what the language and verse's say.It doesnt matter to me what you believe Im only telling you what I understand the Word to say. The rest is up to the individual I and many others see a contradiction to this idea. arguing with me doesnt change what the Word Aion means and how its applied here compared with other places and when it cause's a contradiction in Gods Word.The fault is with the reader not the Word. If You choose believe in eternal hell and contradictions in the Word dont bother you, be my guest its not my place to tell you what to believe I can only tell you what it says.
    Is God only going to live for another thousand years because the same construction used for God is used for hell? If you can only tell me what it says then please tell me why the same construction is different for one verse and not the other.Why are the demons going to suffer for eternity if men aren't?I'm thinking about sin and Matthew 5:28 says if I look at a woman lustfully, I've already comitted adultery in my heart even though I've never touched another woman.1 Timothy 4:1 says some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. Maybe man hasn't done all the things that fallen angels have done but if Jesus says that if we look at a woman lustfully we have comitted adultery even though we've never touched a woman then isn't it possible that false teachers are guilty of some of the same sins that angels commit even though they've never done them and shouldn't they be suffering in hell along with demons?Because of David's one sin of numbering the people (2 Samuel 24:10), 70,000 people died (2 Samuel 24:15) and if God treats us corporately then how can God be a respector of persons? Was it right for 70,000 people to die when they had nothing to do with David numbering the people?Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.What difference is there between us and the angels when we have no excuse (Romans 1:20)?Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; So I'm going to be working on the doctrine of annihilation verses corporate sin.Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev 18:9 ¶ And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
     
  17. treeoflife

    treeoflife New Member

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    Kriss,Is Hitler just going to be annihilated and not have to suffer or is he going to burn in hell for all eternity?If we're going to be annihilated then is there any real meaning to vengeance? I mean if Hitler and I suffer the same fate then is there any real meaning to vengeance?
    Though I agree that hell is eternal too. I believe the Bible is very clear on this. However, I don't believe our plea for vengence will change a person's eternal state. It's either in God's Word or it isn't. Hitler will get whatever God's Word says he will get.I will say this though. I (if I were not covered by the Lamb's blood) would not scared one bit about death or "hell" and a evil person and/or an unbeliever--and neither should I fear God's judgment. If I am simply going to be cast into non-existance, there is nothing to fear because that is not scary at all. In fact, on the contrary, being cast into non-existance may seem pretty inviting to many. Particularly those who have committed such great evil as men like Hitler. You mean to say that I can do all the evil I want... and all I have to look forward to is no longer being cognizant? I won't exist? Well, that's great!But, we know hell is eternal just as heaven is eternal. However, 1,000 years would seem rather scary as well. But, I do believe it is eternal.
     
  18. sosthenes

    sosthenes Guest

    1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. (1) Why does god use foolishness to deal with mankind instead of His full power?(2) The purpose of hell is to teach people not to do wrong. If you teach it is temporary then some people will just rationalize it and say, "I can stick it out because we won't exist anymore and my crime won't matter anyway." I can have my cake and eat it too.
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. (1) Why does god use foolishness to deal with mankind instead of His full power?(2) The purpose of hell is to teach people not to do wrong. If you teach it is temporary then some people will just rationalize it and say, "I can stick it out because we won't exist anymore and my crime won't matter anyway." I can have my cake and eat it too.
    Which "Hell" are you speaking of? If you are speaking of the Lake of Fire, then that Hell is total destruction of one's soul as it will cease to exist. Without the soul, the body can't operate.If you are speaking "Hell" as in around the Melinneum Reign time, then yes it is temporal as it is only there for 1 Day (1000 human years) as the wicked shall not have Rest day or night in that time...they won't have Christ.
     
  20. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (sosthenes;50677)
    Is God only going to live for another thousand years because the same construction used for God is used for hell? If you can only tell me what it says then please tell me why the same construction is different for one verse and not the other.Why are the demons going to suffer for eternity if men aren't?I'm thinking about sin and Matthew 5:28 says if I look at a woman lustfully, I've already comitted adultery in my heart even though I've never touched another woman.1 Timothy 4:1 says some shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. Maybe man hasn't done all the things that fallen angels have done but if Jesus says that if we look at a woman lustfully we have comitted adultery even though we've never touched a woman then isn't it possible that false teachers are guilty of some of the same sins that angels commit even though they've never done them and shouldn't they be suffering in hell along with demons?Because of David's one sin of numbering the people (2 Samuel 24:10), 70,000 people died (2 Samuel 24:15) and if God treats us corporately then how can God be a respector of persons? Was it right for 70,000 people to die when they had nothing to do with David numbering the people?Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.What difference is there between us and the angels when we have no excuse (Romans 1:20)?Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; So I'm going to be working on the doctrine of annihilation verses corporate sin.Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev 18:9 ¶ And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
    I dont see what any of these have to do with anything yes they are sin of men how does this prove prove burning in hell is forever? I never said there was no hell or punishment or that God does not last forever. But none of this changes the fact that God desroys all sin at the End of this age. All sinners will die the second death and be remembered no more (cease to exist) How do you explain how all sin/sinners can be destroyed,remembered no more yet according to you they are still burning somwhere. Is God a hypocrite?He says they are turned into ashes gone no more remembered. All is new. Whats the point of saying this if we are still going remember sin and see people burningcontradictions?
     
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