Is smoking a sin?

[Robert Gwin]

You said, "I too . . ." But you must not mean me. I don't see smoking to be sin unless God desires you personally not smoke.

Let me ask you . . . what does it mean, "not a serious sin"?

To my understanding, all sin is sin, all sin comes from the flesh, and all sin kills if not redeemed.



This is, again, a serious problem to me. You single out this one behavior, while not addressing even worse behavior? And to the point to casting them out of your organization.



They fail the test. They are not an appointed slave. They beat the sheep. Not everyone who says "LORD, LORD", but those who do His will. It is not the Lord's will that we should excommunicate our brothers and sisters for one minor behavior, singled out from all the rest. As if this one is so bad! So much more bad! No, I would not listen to this person even though they claim to speak for God.

Much love!

Some serious sins are listed at 1 Cor 6:9,10 Marks.

We fully agree that only those who do Jehovah's will are going to receive salvation. Obviously the governing body of Jehovah's witnesses do not beat the sheep, rather we are the most fed people on earth, so much that in my belief none of us are able to partake of it all. Heck, I have trouble just keeping up with what is assigned.

How does our governing body beat the sheep sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

We agree? Fantastic!

Then you've come to understand, YHWH took on flesh, was born a Man, the Man we know as Jesus.

But I don't think that's what you are saying.

Much love!

Of course I am not saying that, as the Bible does not teach that! Jesus took on flesh and was born a man. Jehovah God remained in heaven a spirit being as Jesus stated at John 4:23, 24. His voice was heard from heaven at the baptism of His son Mat 3:17. You don't think Jesus through his voice to deceive others into thinking God was in heaven do you? We believe that voice really was God's, and that He spoke from heaven, giving His approval of His son, whom He had sent by the way Gal 4:4

Hope that helps you to understand that YHWH was still in heaven, and that the Bible is not incorrect in that He truly did send His son to earth, as was prophesied. The Bible never indicates that Jehovah took on flesh, and since no man may see Him and yet live, indicates that He has never personally been seen by any man on earth Jn 1:18. Jesus on the other hand has been recorded as taking on flesh, and sacrificing it as a matter of fact, so that we can be rectified with God.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Many people understand many different things from what Jesus said. What about those to whom He spoke? What did THEY understand Him to mean?

John 10:30-33 KJV
30) I and my Father are one.
31) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32) Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 10:36-39 KJV
36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37) If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38) But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39) Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

They understood.

You will be accountable to these words.

They were going to stone Jesus because they knew perfectly well what He was saying, In calling Himself the Son of God He was making Himself equal with God.

And when He said that He was in the Father, and the Father in Him, they understood that too. That's why they were so determined to stone Him.

There was no "correction" given to them, Jesus only reinforced His message to them, which strengthened their desire to kill Him. Because they, the one's who were standing there listening to Jesus, knew what Jesus was saying . . . He is God.

Just as Paul applied Isaiah's prophecy from YHWH, every knee will bow to Jesus, the ONLY Savior.

Much love!

Pretty clear isn't it Marks from your own testimony. People misunderstood what Jesus was saying, and picked up stones to kill him, and Jesus personally clarifying their misunderstanding by reminding them of what he actually said.

May I ask you what Jesus meant by I and my Father are one sir? You know he later stated how that is, correct?

 

[Pearl]

As I stated Pearl, that is a teaching by Jesus. Obviously he stated it for a reason. If you do not know what is meant by it, it is not best to overlook it, rather research what it means.

The faithful and discreet slave is the term used by Jehovah's Witnesses to describe the group's Governing Body in its role of directing doctrines and teachings. The group is described as a "class" of "anointed" Christians that operates under the direct control of Jesus Christ to exercise teaching authority in all matters pertaining to doctrine and articles of faith. The concept is a central doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses' system of belief and is based on their interpretation of the Parable of the Faithful Servant at Matthew 24:45–47, Mark 13:34–37 and Luke 12:35–48. Courtesy of Wikipedia.

So @Robert Gwin it is your Watchtower organisation's 'governing body' who direct your doctrines and teachings? I'm so glad that my own faith and beliefs are directed by the Holy Spirit and not by a 'governing body' of mere mortal men.

 

[marks]

Pretty clear isn't it Marks from your own testimony. People misunderstood what Jesus was saying, and picked up stones to kill him, and Jesus personally clarifying their misunderstanding by reminding them of what he actually said.

May I ask you what Jesus meant by I and my Father are one sir? You know he later stated how that is, correct?

We can dance around this, but it gets boring, frankly.

Jesus told the Jews Who He is, and they knew EXACTLY what He meant. And He did not disabuse them of this notion, He reinforced it for them. They picked up stones to stone Him because they understood Him. He told them He was one with God, that He was the Son of God, they knew this was the same thing as saying He IS God.

You want to make it sound like I'm saying something I'm not. You've done that a few times now. That is completely dishonest! But it's not just me you are doing that with, you do the same with God.

The fact of the matter is, Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that means you too! That Jesus Christ is LORD. Just as He said in Isaiah, To Me, YHWH, every knee shall bow, every tongue confess.

That's the prophecy, and contrary to what some may think . . . It WILL be fulfilled.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How does our governing body beat the sheep sir?

Since I've said this a couple of times already, if you weren't just trying to game me, you could give my answer.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How does our governing body beat the sheep sir?

Condeming those whom God does not condemn.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

...

May I ask you what Jesus meant by I and my Father are one sir? You know he later stated how that is, correct?

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

No Multiplicity (versus Trinity) but simply one God with more than 2 people striving to become more like Him!

 

[Robert Gwin]

The faithful and discreet slave is the term used by Jehovah's Witnesses to describe the group's Governing Body in its role of directing doctrines and teachings. The group is described as a "class" of "anointed" Christians that operates under the direct control of Jesus Christ to exercise teaching authority in all matters pertaining to doctrine and articles of faith. The concept is a central doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses' system of belief and is based on their interpretation of the Parable of the Faithful Servant at Matthew 24:45–47, Mark 13:34–37 and Luke 12:35–48. Courtesy of Wikipedia.

So @Robert Gwin it is your Watchtower organisation's 'governing body' who direct your doctrines and teachings? I'm so glad that my own faith and beliefs are directed by the Holy Spirit and not by a 'governing body' of mere mortal men.

The real truth is, Jesus either said it or he didn't. If he did, it is worth finding out what it means. I sincerely hope that you do that as it is a critical part of

We can dance around this, but it gets boring, frankly.

Jesus told the Jews Who He is, and they knew EXACTLY what He meant. And He did not disabuse them of this notion, He reinforced it for them. They picked up stones to stone Him because they understood Him. He told them He was one with God, that He was the Son of God, they knew this was the same thing as saying He IS God.

You want to make it sound like I'm saying something I'm not. You've done that a few times now. That is completely dishonest! But it's not just me you are doing that with, you do the same with God.

The fact of the matter is, Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that means you too! That Jesus Christ is LORD. Just as He said in Isaiah, To Me, YHWH, every knee shall bow, every tongue confess.

That's the prophecy, and contrary to what some may think . . . It WILL be fulfilled.

Much love!

Yes sir he did, like you said he said I am God's son. I couldn't agree more. You do realize that if Jesus is YHWH he is a liar, and deceiver correct? What hope would any of us have? Best stick to the Bible's teaching sir, not mens.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Since I've said this a couple of times already, if you weren't just trying to game me, you could give my answer.

Much love!

Perhaps I disagreed Marks. One thing to consider sir, all of us are volunteers to be Jehovah's people, He, nor the governing body forces anyone to be among them.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Condeming those whom God does not condemn.

Much love!

Publication sir? We teach Jesus is the Judge and has the keys to life or death, not us. We do however know who are Jesus disciples as he said we would, as they are identified by their fruits.

Any other examples of how we condemn others sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

No Multiplicity (versus Trinity) but simply one God with more than 2 people striving to become more like Him!

Very good sir, you got it! Those are the very verses I show to others as well. They are one in unity of beliefs, same as all Christians, however, they are sinless, whereas we are not.

 

[marks]

Publication sir? We teach Jesus is the Judge and has the keys to life or death, not us. We do however know who are Jesus disciples as he said we would, as they are identified by their fruits.

Any other examples of how we condemn others sir?

One is sufficient, it shows the heart.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, in this case to take power over others, claim a false authority, and to condemn those whom God does not condemn.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Perhaps I disagreed Marks. One thing to consider sir, all of us are volunteers to be Jehovah's people, He, nor the governing body forces anyone to be among them.

Do you see the disengenuousness of your statement?

No one is forced to be redeemed and saved from wrath. Right? Kind of like what you are saying?

And to Whom will you bow your knee? To Whom will you confess?

You will bow your knee to Jesus. You will confess that Jesus Christ - the one you deny - that Jesus Christ is LORD.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The real truth is, Jesus either said it or he didn't. If he did, it is worth finding out what it means. I sincerely hope that you do that as it is a critical part of

Well of course he said it, but not for just anyone to grab if for themself so they can command over others what God has not.

This not honest treatment of the Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How does our governing body beat the sheep sir?

I had thought you were talking about an individual who was God's faithful slave, but you are talking about a governing body? How does this governing body reach it's conclusions?

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

Very good sir, you got it! Those are the very verses I show to others as well. They are one in unity of beliefs, same as all Christians, however, they are sinless, whereas we are not.

So @Robert Gwin Are you saying that JWs do not believe that Jesus took all our sin upon himself on that cross so that In God's eyes we could be sinless and so be reconciled to Him? Because those who are sinners are not reconciled to God and not part of His family.

 

[Robert Gwin]

One is sufficient, it shows the heart.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, in this case to take power over others, claim a false authority, and to condemn those whom God does not condemn.

Much love!

Glad I could clarify that for you sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Do you see the disengenuousness of your statement?

No one is forced to be redeemed and saved from wrath. Right? Kind of like what you are saying?

And to Whom will you bow your knee? To Whom will you confess?

You will bow your knee to Jesus. You will confess that Jesus Christ - the one you deny - that Jesus Christ is LORD.

Much love!

You have to be obedient to Jesus' teachings sir. He does not force obedience as I stated, but if you desire everlasting life, you have to accept the conditions for it. I am sure you will not disagree on that.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well of course he said it, but not for just anyone to grab if for themself so they can command over others what God has not.

This not honest treatment of the Scriptures.

Much love!

That stands to reason sir. You didn't gather that I believed differently did you? You must have mentioned it for a reason.