Is smoking a sin?

[Robert Gwin]

I had thought you were talking about an individual who was God's faithful slave, but you are talking about a governing body? How does this governing body reach it's conclusions?

Much love!

We believe that the faithful slave is not made up of one individual Marks. Our opinion is that it is the governing body of God's people, not a single individual. I personally believe our governing body fulfills that scripture as well as Isa 2:2,3.

 

[Brakelite]

We can dance around this, but it gets boring, frankly.

Jesus told the Jews Who He is, and they knew EXACTLY what He meant. And He did not disabuse them of this notion, He reinforced it for them. They picked up stones to stone Him because they understood Him. He told them He was one with God, that He was the Son of God, they knew this was the same thing as saying He IS God.

You want to make it sound like I'm saying something I'm not. You've done that a few times now. That is completely dishonest! But it's not just me you are doing that with, you do the same with God.

The fact of the matter is, Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that means you too! That Jesus Christ is LORD. Just as He said in Isaiah, To Me, YHWH, every knee shall bow, every tongue confess.

That's the prophecy, and contrary to what some may think . . . It WILL be fulfilled.

Much love!

@Robert Gwin
I have said this before on several occasions, and I don't get bored saying it, because for me it simply makes so much sense. There's no need for philosophical musings... Creeds... Or great theological wisdom in trying to work out the meaning of the Godhead.
You both agree that Jesus is the Son of God sent by the Father to fulfill a task, obviously agreed upon between them before the incarnation... Hence the slaying of the Lamb before creation, an agreement and covenant made between Father and Son.
Scripture is inspired by God. All of it. He inspired Moses, the prophets, and the writers of the gospels to use ideas and themes and concepts, that reflected the reality of the kingdom of heaven. Those ideas and themes and concepts would be used constantly and consistently in a way that we as human beings, would understand... Even in our reduced capacity as fallen beings and now without the vast depths of understanding and wisdom that was common to our distant forbears, we can still appreciate the truths of scripture that the words of the prophets conveyed.
Jesus was absolutely His Father's Son. Who was His Father? God. I am the son of a man. That makes me human. Jesus before the incarnation, was the Son of God. According to all the nuances of language and concepts familiar to us all, and consistent throughout scripture regarding both man and beast, Son of God can only mean the Son is also God.

 

[Robert Gwin]

So @Robert Gwin Are you saying that JWs do not believe that Jesus took all our sin upon himself on that cross so that In God's eyes we could be sinless and so be reconciled to Him? Because those who are sinners are not reconciled to God and not part of His family.

All people have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God Pearl. All who will receive salvation will be forgiven of those sins based on the ransom sacrifice of Jesus' flesh and blood. All those who are found in the book of life will have gained life through what Jesus has given in our behalf. Keep in mind however, the actual number of those who attain to salvation is very small in relation to the entire populace that have lived. At least if you believe Jesus that is. Mat 7:14

If a person desires salvation, what would you say is required?

 

[Pearl]

All people have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God Pearl. All who will receive salvation will be forgiven of those sins based on the ransom sacrifice of Jesus' flesh and blood. All those who are found in the book of life will have gained life through what Jesus has given in our behalf. Keep in mind however, the actual number of those who attain to salvation is very small in relation to the entire populace that have lived. At least if you believe Jesus that is. Mat 7:14

If a person desires salvation, what would you say is required?

I believe that once you ask Jesus into your life and receive the Holy Spirit then you are 'saved' or 'born again' and are no longer a sinner but a saint in whom Christ dwells through His Spirit. Just as a shepherd will take the skin from a dead lamb and place it on an orphan so the bereaved ewe will accept it, God has done a similar thing with the blood of Jesus. Once we are 'covered' in it we are acceptable to God and part of his own family. And we are no longer sinners in God's eyes, but saints.

But I'm pretty sure that the Watchtower Organisation teaches a different gospel.

ps All Christians should be witnesses for Jehovah or Yahweh even if they don't use that term.

 

[Pearl]

We believe that the faithful slave is not made up of one individual Marks. Our opinion is that it is the governing body of God's people, not a single individual. I personally believe our governing body fulfills that scripture as well as Isa 2:2,3.

The Churches 'governing body' should be the Holy Spirit.

 

[Enoch111]

If a person desires salvation, what would you say is required?

It is required that that person believe that Jesus is God who became man to die for our sins and rise again for our justification. No one other than God could take away the sin of the world by the sacrifice of Himself. And no one other than God could rise again precisely as He promised and prophesied.

 

[Brakelite]

It is required that that person believe that Jesus is God who became man to die for our sins and rise again for our justification. No one other than God could take away the sin of the world by the sacrifice of Himself. And no one other than God could rise again precisely as He promised and prophesied.

Remembering of course that in the form of God He could not die... But in the form of mortal man... Which is why He made of Himself no reputation etc.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I believe that once you ask Jesus into your life and receive the Holy Spirit then you are 'saved' or 'born again' and are no longer a sinner but a saint in whom Christ dwells through His Spirit. Just as a shepherd will take the skin from a dead lamb and place it on an orphan so the bereaved ewe will accept it, God has done a similar thing with the blood of Jesus. Once we are 'covered' in it we are acceptable to God and part of his own family. And we are no longer sinners in God's eyes, but saints.

But I'm pretty sure that the Watchtower Organisation teaches a different gospel.

ps All Christians should be witnesses for Jehovah or Yahweh even if they don't use that term.

What scriptures are you basing that on Pearl? Yes we do teach differently than you. Jesus' apostles were of his faith, yet he trained them extensively. The Bible clearly states that in our time (the last days) that we would go out and invite others to come to the house of God, for what? So we can be taught. Isa 2:2,3

Those who are born again are called to be saints, like we spoke of, and the Bible limits their number to 144 k 12 tribes of 12,000. They go to heaven, called to be Kings and Priests with Jesus. What about all the other sheep?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The Churches 'governing body' should be the Holy Spirit.

Jehovah reveals His word through holy spirit to the faithful slave correct? Isn't that the purpose of that slave? If not what do you see is the purpose of that slave that feeds Jesus' sheep?

 

[Robert Gwin]

It is required that that person believe that Jesus is God who became man to die for our sins and rise again for our justification. No one other than God could take away the sin of the world by the sacrifice of Himself. And no one other than God could rise again precisely as He promised and prophesied.

Scripture sir? Who did Jesus say was God and we were to worship and serve exclusively?

 

[Pearl]

What scriptures are you basing that on Pearl? Yes we do teach differently than you. Jesus' apostles were of his faith, yet he trained them extensively. The Bible clearly states that in our time (the last days) that we would go out and invite others to come to the house of God, for what? So we can be taught. Isa 2:2,3

Those who are born again are called to be saints, like we spoke of, and the Bible limits their number to 144 k 12 tribes of 12,000. They go to heaven, called to be Kings and Priests with Jesus. What about all the other sheep?

I am not going there.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I am not going there.

Neither am I Pearl. Most Christians don't, rather they inherit the earth Mat 5:5; Ps 37:9-11, 29

 

[Davy]

Anything we do to our flesh knowingly that harms it, is a sin of the flesh. It may not be a sin unto Salvation, but it will be to our flesh, because we are more likely to be in better health by not doing those things, which is why Paul said he refused to be under the power of any of these things...

1 Cor 6:12-13
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
KJV

 

[farouk]

The Churches 'governing body' should be the Holy Spirit.

@Pearl We indeed don't looking to an earthly governing body; rather, as led by the Spirit, we acknowledge the Lord Himself as 'head over all things to th church, which is His body' (Ephesians 1).

 

[farouk]

Oh dear. @Robert Gwin I think that pointing fingers at people and judging them sinful is more sinful than smoking.

@Pearl Spurgeon smoked; and he was a great servant of the Lord. The fact that he smoked does not prove anything one way or another; but it reminds us that there are deep doctrinal issues with which he was identifies which are really not related to whether or not a Christian man or woman smokes.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Anything we do to our flesh knowingly that harms it, is a sin of the flesh. It may not be a sin unto Salvation, but it will be to our flesh, because we are more likely to be in better health by not doing those things, which is why Paul said he refused to be under the power of any of these things...

1 Cor 6:12-13
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
KJV

I think I agree with you on this sir. We do disfellowship those who choose to smoke, so our governing body has determined it to be a serious sin, and I fully understand the line of reasoning on it. We believe life is a gift from God, and it is to be held holy. If someone disrespects that life, they really are not showing respect for the sanctity of life. I do not know how Jesus will judge on it, but I am quite sure that he would not approve of it.

 

[ReChoired]

Jehovah reveals His word through holy spirit to the faithful slave correct? ...

God is not a slave owner. He has servants who choose to serve Him out of love, but never is God a slave owner.

Luk_12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh_15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.​

Joh_15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.​

Abraham is the friend of God:

2Ch_20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

Isa_41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Jas_2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.​

Moses is the friend of God:

Exo_33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
​

John the Baptist, the friend of God:

Joh_3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
​

Lazarus God's friend:

Joh_11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.​

God's friends:

Zec_13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
​

God brings people out of slavery:

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Joh_8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
​

To be called a "slave" is to not be free. It means you are still the slave of the WTS, satan, sin and selfishness. Christ Jesus died to set you free.

 

[Davy]

I think I agree with you on this sir. We do disfellowship those who choose to smoke, so our governing body has determined it to be a serious sin, and I fully understand the line of reasoning on it. We believe life is a gift from God, and it is to be held holy. If someone disrespects that life, they really are not showing respect for the sanctity of life. I do not know how Jesus will judge on it, but I am quite sure that he would not approve of it.

I wouldn't recommend being overzealous about it, because it's not a Salvation issue, it's a health issue. One could just as equally rebuke ourselves and others when we don't eat right, which is just as unhealthy (some cases more unhealthy than smoking), God never changed unhealthy food into healthy food. It's simply not a Salvation issue, so we shouldn't try to make it one.

 

[Curtis]

God is not a slave owner. He has servants who choose to serve Him out of love, but never is God a slave owner.

Luk_12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh_15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.​

Joh_15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.​

Abraham is the friend of God:

2Ch_20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

Isa_41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Jas_2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.​

Moses is the friend of God:

Exo_33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
​

John the Baptist, the friend of God:

Joh_3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
​

Lazarus God's friend:

Joh_11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.​

God's friends:

Zec_13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
​

God brings people out of slavery:

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Joh_8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
​

To be called a "slave" is to not be free. It means you are still the slave of the WTS, satan, sin and selfishness. Christ Jesus died to set you free.

Yet Paul was a servant of Christ:

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

 

[Curtis]

I wouldn't recommend being overzealous about it, because it's not a Salvation issue, it's a health issue. One could just as equally rebuke ourselves and others when we don't eat right, which is just as unhealthy (some cases more unhealthy than smoking), God never changed unhealthy food into healthy food. It's simply not a Salvation issue, so we shouldn't try to make it one.

Except laws of clean and unclean animals was ceremonial law specific the the old covenant and mosaic law, which is why before the law Noah was told he could eat everything that moves, and after the law of Moses ended with the new covenant, Peter was told God has cleansed al animals.

Shalom Aleichem