Is the Gift of Salvation nullified by the consequences of refusal?

[St. SteVen]

Thanks.
You raise some interesting points.
While I read your post I was thinking about the word (Logos/logic/reason/plan/idea) that was from the beginning.
(Gospel of John, chapter one)
The word became flesh. That word that became flesh was the lamb slain...

@quietthinker
Makes me wonder...
At what point did Jesus come to understand why he had been sent?

Luke 2:46-49 NIV
After three days they found him in the temple courts,
sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him,
“Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”

 

[quietthinker]

@quietthinker
Makes me wonder...
At what point did Jesus come to understand why he had been sent?

Luke 2:46-49 NIV
After three days they found him in the temple courts,
sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him,
“Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”

I don't know if there was a particular point as you say. I think it was more of a dawning. He would have heard his mother's story...of the angel that appeared to her, of his conception, of his parents flight to Egypt and why, of the conception of his cousin John to a 'barren' wife. As he read the scriptures no doubt it was fastened on him; the dove and the voice at his baptism and his need to isolate in the desert to think through what all this meant (it's implications).....the temptations.
Yes, I think it was a dawning not unlike my own experience of seeing a non violent God, a God of affection and tenderness while all around me the religious influences pointed to a God who is itching and going to get his pound of flesh so to speak, ultimately in violent retribution.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't know if there was a particular point as you say. I think it was more of a dawning. He would have heard his mother's story...of the angel that appeared to her, of his conception, of his parents flight to Egypt and why, of the conception of his cousin John to a 'barren' wife. As he read the scriptures no doubt it was fastened on him; the dove and the voice at his baptism and his need to isolate in the desert to think through what all this meant (it's implications).....the temptations.
Yes, I think it was a dawning not unlike my own experience of seeing a non violent God, a God of affection and tenderness while all around me the religious influences pointed to a God who is itching and going to get his pound of flesh so to speak, ultimately in violent retribution.

My wife and I are currently watching a Netflix series titled CHOSEN.
A story about Jesus from the deliverance of Mary of Magdala.
Very interesting character development on the disciples and Nicodemus, (so far)

/

 

[amigo de christo]

Let us stick to scripture and avoid the chosen .

 

[quietthinker]

Let us stick to scripture and avoid the chosen .

which scripture do you want to stick to amigo?

 

[MA2444]

Familiar words.
"... it is by grace you have been saved... the gift of God..."

What is the nature of a "gift"?
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return. (hopefully, or it isn't free)
- Consequences for refusal would make it extortion.

Here's how it might look in human terms.

Man #1: I have a free gift for you.
Man #2: Thanks, But I'm not interested.
Man #1: Not interested? I said it was free!
Man #2: I'm pretty sure there are some strings attached.
Man #1: Well, of course. But it's FREE!
Man #2: Not really, if there are strings attached.
Man #1: This is my final offer. Better take it now, or else!
Man #2: Uh... or else what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated!
Man #2: Seriously? What kind of free gift is that?

Since salvation is a gift, it should meet the criteria of a gift.
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return.

If salvation fails to meet this criteria, it isn't a gift.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

Coorect me if I'm wrong here but doesnt what you said indicate that you dont really take the God of the Bible seriously?

 

[Jack]

Coorect me if I'm wrong here but doesnt what you said indicate that you dont really take the God of the Bible seriously?

BINGO!

 

[O'Darby]

Coorect me if I'm wrong here but doesnt what you said indicate that you dont really take the God of the Bible seriously?

Or perhaps EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

 

[Jack]

Or perhaps EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Not even close.

 

[O'Darby]

Not even close.

@MA2444 said "correct me if I'm wrong" - so I corrected him 'cause he's wrong! Was he being insincere - would God approve of that?

There is (1) taking the Bible seriously; (2) taking the God of the Bible seriously; (3) taking absolutely everything seriously because you think that's what 1 and 2 require.

You, of course, have your notions of what 1 and 2 require, possibly driven by your notions of 3.

The fallacy, as always, is that some folks think they get to define 1 and 2 for everyone else. Harrumph!

 

[Jack]

@MA2444 said "correct me if I'm wrong" - so I corrected him 'cause he's wrong! Was he being insincere - would God approve of that?

There is (1) taking the Bible seriously; (2) taking the God of the Bible seriously; (3) taking absolutely everything seriously because you think that's what 1 and 2 require.

You, of course, have your notions of what 1 and 2 require, possibly driven by your notions of 3.

The fallacy, as always, is that some folks think they get to define 1 and 2 for everyone else. Harrumph!

Sorry but I've read STV's posts before. I'm just a Bible defender.

 

[MA2444]

@MA2444 said "correct me if I'm wrong" - so I corrected him 'cause he's wrong!

There is (1) taking the Bible seriously; (2) taking the God of the Bible seriously; (3) taking absolutely everything seriously because you think that's what 1 and 2 require.

You, of course, have your notions of what 1 and 2 require, possibly driven by your notions of 3.

The fallacy, as always, is that some folks think they get to define 1 and 2 for everyone else. Harrumph!

You didn't correct anybody. You didnt even offer an alernative truth. So you're just spouting opinion and besides, I asked someone else and wasnt even talking to you. Lol

 

[St. SteVen]

Or perhaps EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

Agree.
But basically I was not talking about the Bible.
I was talking about our religious upbringing.

Familiar words.
"... it is by grace you have been saved... the gift of God..."

What is the nature of a "gift"?
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return. (hopefully, or it isn't free)
- Consequences for refusal would make it extortion.

We are told to evangelize by offering people the free gift of eternal life.
What is free about it?
And why would refusal to accept a "gift" result in consequences? (extortion)
Especially the threatening consequences the church claims. (ECT)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

From the OP.

Here's how it might look in human terms.
Man #1: I have a free gift for you.
Man #2: Thanks, But I'm not interested.
Man #1: Not interested? I said it was free!
Man #2: I'm pretty sure there are some strings attached.
Man #1: Well, of course. But it's FREE!
Man #2: Not really, if there are strings attached.
Man #1: This is my final offer. Better take it now, or else!
Man #2: Uh... or else what?
Man #1: You will be incinerated!
Man #2: Seriously? What kind of free gift is that?

Since salvation is a gift, it should meet the criteria of a gift.
- It's free.
- You can't earn it.
- Nothing is expected in return.

If salvation fails to meet this criteria, it isn't a gift.

Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

@O'Darby
Thanks for responding to the idiots I have on IGNORE. - LOL

/

 

[Jack]

"Idiots" = Bible believers to Satan's children!

 

[MA2444]

Agree.
But basically I was not talking about the Bible.
I was talking about our religious upbringing.

But basically I was talking about something else altogether, and you dodged it like always!

 

[MA2444]

the God of the Bible

There you go in case you had trouble comprehending the questiion.

The question still stands, you havent answered it.

Again...

The God of the bible
The God of the bible.
The God of the bible. .

 

[Behold]

The Gift of Salvation, is Jesus on The Cross.

He's The Gift.

Salvation is not a "what", Its a Savior.

Jesus = Salvation.

Jesus IS our Salvation.

 

[MA2444]

@O'Darby
Thanks for responding to the idiots I have on IGNORE. - LOL

/

I think you put me on ignore because I ask too good of questions to you.