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Featured Is the messiah the father himself in flesh?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by sho, Oct 17, 2020.

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  1. sho

    sho Member

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    No trinity, but just one God who became flesh?
     
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  2. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Vast majority of Christians believe that the Father and Son are different persons. I myself do.
    The idea that the Father & Son are the same person is known as "modalism" accepted by a small minority of people, and passionately disagreed by the above large portion.

    This was also addressed in your previous thread.
     
  3. sho

    sho Member

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    So you believe in two Gods?
     
  4. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    I believe in two persons united as ONE God.

    I don't believe that instance like Christ's baptism are God is doing some egotistical ventriloquism with "this is my beloved Son", or Christ talking disassoicately about himself, or anything like that. To me, those just not make any sense logically or in any other way.
     
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  5. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    God is a Trinity of persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

    Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self-aware, the third person of the Trinity.

    The word "person" is used to describe the three "Persons" of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self-aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. The three Persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.

    What is so hard to understand about God being Triune? The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. God is a Trinity (Tri-Unity) of 3 Persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is not three gods nor is the Trinity three beings. We call them "Persons" because each one of Them have a will, speak, teach, love, receive praise, prayer, share the same Glory, etc. These are all characteristics of person-hood. They are of one substance, nature, essence or Being. You cannot have the Father without the Son, the Son without the Father, The Son without the Holy Spirit or you would not have the God according to Scripture, you would have a false god or what is known as an idol.

    hope this helps,
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    is this the same person in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 who made all things? yes or no

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  7. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    No, it's difficult for the untrained to know the differences between the Persons of the Trinity, but they remain eternally distinct, because in the history of these Persons they functioned separately. They certainly were united in one Divine Substance, but as independent Persons they played roles that require that we distinguish between them. They interacted--therefore, we cannot treat them as if they interacted with themselves!

    Technically, the Word of God became flesh--not, the Father became flesh. The Word of the Father became flesh because the Word can transition, whereas the Father can only transition through the intermediaries of His own choice--in our case, the Son and the Spirit.

    The Son, prior to his incarnation, was known as the Word of God. Therefore, as the Word, the Son could transition into "the Son"--the Word made flesh. He was made human.
     
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  8. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    The Father did not become flesh, a man. The Son became flesh a man, The Father sent the Son into this world.

    John 1:1-3
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    John 1:14
    14
    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory

    These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.

    John 1:15
    15
    John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"

    John 1:30
    "This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'

    John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre existed.

    John 3:13
    No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.

    Again we see the pre existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.

    John 3:17
    "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.

    This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.

    John 6:38
    For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

    Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.

    John 8:23
    "You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"

    John 8:58
    Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."

    Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.


    John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

    John 17:5
    And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

    Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God.

    John 17:24
    "Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.

    Below we read it was the Son who already existed as the Son which the Father sent into the world.

    John 3:16-17
    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.

    1 Cor 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.


    Galatians 4:4
    But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

    1 John 4:14
    And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

    In 1 John 3:8 we see that the Son of Gods appearance or manifestation was for this very purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. The verb φανερόω means to make manifest, appeared, to make visible or to bring to light something that was previously hidden. This clearly means that Jesus had already existed as the Son of God and He was made manifest or visible to us.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  9. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    I'm not discussing this all over again with you, been there, done that, over it. No hard feelings. :)
     
  10. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 3:8-9 has helped me ‘And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. [9] And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?’
     
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  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    no need to discuss all over, because the truth stand, now you said,
    well that's a ERROR on your part and here's why.
    Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

    see those two words, "ALONE", and "BY MYSELF"

    just look up both words and see what they mean.

    A. ALONE: having no one else present. if no one was present, which means there was no second or third person.
    and knowing that it negate going through anyone else.


    B. By Himself: means "alone". see above.

    so these two verses alone John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 destroys any trinity.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  12. sho

    sho Member

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    The bible from the beginning to the end wants to say that the messiah is the father himself in the flesh.
    Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.
     
  13. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    That really doesn't support your point, and is blatantly ignoring the responses of everyone who posted in response to you.
     
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  14. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    The ERROR is you do not believe ALL the passages where the FATHER sent the SON. The Father is not the Son. That is oneness heresy.
     
  15. sho

    sho Member

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    You believe in three gods, that's why it doesn't support it but actually it does if you believe that god is one.
     
  16. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    not true read here, can you read this with comprehension ?

    Is the messiah the father himself in flesh?
     
  17. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    No: as I stated in post #4, I believe in ONE God. Other posters have stated their beliefs likewise.

    You're blatantly ignoring people responding to you. Such is incredibly disrespectful.
     
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  18. Mungo

    Mungo Well-Known Member

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    God is three persons but God only has one essence, one will, one action.
     
  19. Christophany

    Christophany Well-Known Member

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    The person is intentionally misrepresenting the Trinity. And we know there are 3 Monotheistic World Religions.

    1- Judaism
    2- Islam
    3- Christianity
     
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  20. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    nope, if one place where word of God is in ERROR then all of his word is in ERROR.

    and in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 is either in ERROR or the TRUTH.

    and for the Last time I'm "Diversified Oneness", big difference from the UPC teaching of Oneness.

    so it's you who don't understand, and all the scriptures prove it. you might want to go back and study


    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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