IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[rebuilder 454]

You're confusing your system with Scripture.

Revelation 14:14 doesn’t support your timeline — and it certainly doesn’t describe a “Jewish rapture” or a mid-point secret event. The passage is a symbolic picture of final judgment, not a separate event squeezed between two comings.

“Behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand...” — Revelation 14:14

This is harvest imagery straight from Matthew 13, where Jesus explains exactly what it means:

“The harvest is the end of the age... The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin... Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” — Matthew 13:39–43

One harvest. One return. At the end.

You don’t get to split the harvest into Church vs. Israel, pre-trib vs. mid-trib vs. post-trib. That’s not exegesis — that’s theological surgery on a text that’s not broken.

As for the 10 virgins — Jesus makes the timing clear:

“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’” — Matthew 25:6

They all fall asleep. All of them wake up. Some go in. Some are shut out.
That’s not two stages — that’s one sudden arrival. No pre-warning. No partial rapture. No phases.

So no, Scripture does not testify differently than what I’ve said. What it does testify against is the Scofield fantasy you’ve been handed — a fantasy that never existed in the early Church, never appears in the Gospels, and has to be read into every passage you’re quoting.

If you're going to accuse others of "being blatantly against Scripture," make sure your system actually comes from Scripture — not a 19th-century prophecy chart.

Lol
Yeah right.
Who wouldda thought that a Jewish harvest follows Jewish firstfuits..

I forgot to add that to the list of voided verses by your doctrine.
There are 2 more as you just pointed out.
1) the 144k ethnic Jews from ethnic Jewish tribes, numbered 2 different ways,from SPECIFIC TRIBES. (Chopped down by your doctrine).
2) firstfruits Jews are meaningless as your doctrine requires the omission of main Jewish harvest.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You just listed a bunch of vague claims with no exegesis, no verses, and no coherence.
That’s not Bible study — that’s a temper tantrum.

Meanwhile, I gave you 1 Corinthians 15:23 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15–16, which clearly say:
“Each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at His coming, those who belong to Him.”
“We who are alive… will not precede those who have fallen asleep… the dead in Christ will rise first.”

Where’s the secret phase?
Where’s the 7-year gap?
Where’s the “tribulation leftovers” category?

It’s not there. You’re adding that with Scofield’s crayons.

Let’s talk about your foundation:
You base your entire theology on a 19th-century con man’s footnotes — literally a contracted lawyer with Rockefeller/Oxford ties who twisted Scripture to fit his Zionist fantasy — and then mock me for respecting the early Church that canonized the Bible you pretend to defend?

Newsflash:
The apostles weren’t dispensationalists.
The early Church wasn’t dispensationalist.
Jesus wasn’t a dispensationalist.

You can keep throwing a Scofield Study Bible at every verse that disproves you…
But until you can show me where Scripture actually teaches multiple resurrections for the saved, your whole system collapses.

You’re out here preaching a Scofield rapture like it came down on stone tablets — but not a single apostle, Church Father, or martyr ever heard of it. You had to wait 1,800 years for a Zionist-funded con man to “discover” it in a verse that never says it.
That’s not divine revelation — that’s historical amnesia dressed up as prophecy.

Jesus warned about false prophets — He just didn’t say they’d be wearing three-piece suits and printing study Bibles.

If your “blessed hope” wasn’t preached by Jesus, Paul, or the early Church, maybe it’s not hope — maybe it’s heresy.

Your little tantrum without addressing my challenges.
Scofield has failed you again.
....but lives rent free in your brain.
That is torment.
Your torment is from that dead ancients building block.
You invoked them, so now your make believe enemy ghost ,"Scofield, is haunting you

You have Scofield ghost derangement. (SGD)
You invoke that ghost and he is now your tormentor.

One day Crack a bible.
Ditch that debunked mess and discover the adventure and beauty of God's word.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Your little tantrum without addressing my challenges.
Scofield has failed you again.
....but lives rent free in your brain.
That is torment.
Your torment is from that dead ancients building block.
You invoked them, so now your make believe enemy ghost ,"Scofield, is haunting you

You have Scofield ghost derangement. (SGD)
You invoke that ghost and he is now your tormentor.

One day Crack a bible.
Ditch that debunked mess and discover the adventure and beauty of God's word.

You keep dodging Scripture by lobbing insults and projection. That’s not theology — that’s deflection.

You still haven’t answered 1 Corinthians 15:23 or 1 Thessalonians 4:15–16 — because you can’t.
There’s no seven-year gap. No split resurrections. No “tribulation leftovers.”
Just one return. One resurrection. One harvest.

Instead, you accuse me of being "haunted" by Scofield — as if I invented the guy.
I’m not haunted. I’m just not brainwashed.
I know exactly who he was: a lawyer contracted by Oxford, funded by Zionist interests, who rewrote the margins of the Bible and passed it off as doctrine. You defend his edits and blasphemous footnotes like they’re Scripture. That’s the problem.

And don’t kid yourself —
The “beauty and adventure of God’s Word” doesn’t include a secret rapture, multiple resurrections, or an ethnic-based salvation plan.
That’s your Scofield ghost story — not the Gospel.

Crack a Bible? lol...

Brother, I just quoted it (again) and you just ignored it (again).

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

To the lurkers who don’t really know what’s going on here — let me explain it like this:

Remember those “Choose Your Own Adventure” books from when you were a kid?
“You finally reach the dragon’s cave. To enter, turn to page 34. To run away, turn to page 56.”

That’s basically how the Scofield Bible hijacked 80% of American Christianity starting in the 1920s.
It was the ultimate Trojan Horse — a “free Bible” full of study notes designed not to explain Scripture, but to redirect it.

It trained generations of people — especially good-hearted, rural, churchgoing Americans — to ignore plain verses and instead “turn to some other page” where Scofield’s Zionist footnotes could rewrite the story.

Here’s how it works:

You read in Galatians 3:28:
“There is neither Jew nor Greek... you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

But Scofield’s footnote says no no no...:
“Flip back to Genesis — the Jews are still special because of Abraham!”

Completely ignoring the fact that Jesus already fulfilled the promise to Abraham, nailed the Old Covenant to the cross, and established a new and better covenant — with no ethnic favoritism, no second-class citizens, and no backup plan for unbelieving Israel.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.” — Galatians 3:29

That’s the true fulfillment.
No one’s “special.”
Not your DNA.
Not your Rothschild/U.N. land deed.
Not your dreams of a third temple.

Just Christ —
and those in Him.
No dual covenant.
No second plan.
No exceptions.
Only the Gospel.

You read in Revelation that the 144,000 are sealed “from all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

But Scofield whispers:
“Don’t worry, that’s not the Church. That’s ethnic Jews in the future! Forget that Paul said ‘not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel’ (Romans 9:6) — let’s insert a gap!”

You read in Ephesians 2 that Christ “broke down the dividing wall” between Jew and Gentile and created “one new man.”

But Scofield says:
“Flip to a chart at the back — God still has two plans, two peoples, and two kingdoms. Just ignore Jesus saying, ‘there shall be one flock, one shepherd.’”

That’s the scam.
That’s why the modern Church doesn’t realize it is Israel — not by flesh, but by faith. (which is the only way in, according to the Gospel).
There’s no ethnic fast-pass.
No bloodline exception.
Only those in Christ are Abraham’s offspring — heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:29)

It doesn’t matter if you’re an “ethnic Jew,” a Gentile, or a Russian, Poll or Eastern European in Tel Aviv pretending to be related to Abraham.
If you’re not in the Church — you’re not in Christ. Period.
And if you reject the King of the Jews, you’re out — regardless of lineage or bloodline.

The covenant wasn’t postponed.
It wasn’t rerouted.
It was fulfilled — in Christ.

There’s no such thing as “replacement theology.”
That’s just a slur word people slap on New Testament truth when they’ve never actually read the Bible without Scofield’s footnotes telling them how to think.

It’s not “replacement” — it’s fulfillment.
Jesus didn’t replace Israel. He fulfilled Israel — and then invited everyone in.

But Scofield rewrote the whole story.
He told the Church to expect a second covenant, a second people, a second plan.
A detour. A delay. A different ending.

And sadly…
most of the Church in the 1920s, ‘30s, and ‘40s bought into it — hook, line, and Scofield.
And it’s still plaguing the Church today, misleading millions away from the truth of the Gospel and the identity of the true Israel —
the Body of Christ.

The Scofield Bible deception was unleashed on the Church in 1909, disguised as a gift — millions of “free Bibles”pumped full of Darby/Scofield Zionist footnotes, laced with heresy, and printed in Oxford with Rockefeller backing.

Why?
Because they knew something critical:
Traditional Christians would never support a Rothschild-backed, UN-orchestrated hijacking of Palestine. (The future plan for the 1940s)
The early Church Fathers knew the truth.
Even Christians during the Civil War era understood:
The Church is Israel.
Not dirt.
Not a nation.
Not a flag.
Not a bloodline.
“My kingdom is not of this world.” — Jesus

So what did Scofield & Oxford do?
They rewrote the narrative.
They mass-produced Trojan Horse “study Bibles” and carpet-bombed the American heartland with them.
They aimed straight at the John Boy Waltons of America — humble, God-fearing people — and systematically reprogrammed them to believe that “Israel” meant a political state, not the Body of Christ.

That is blasphemy of the highest order.
A full-scale theological coup.
As wicked as anything Satan has ever sold to the Church.

They didn't just twist Scripture.
They buried the Gospel under a flag, and called it prophecy.

And looking around today — it worked flawlessly.

We went from a time when 100% of the Church knew the truth...
To a world where maybe 20% of Christians even know what Israel is anymore.
They traded the Gospel for a map.
They replaced the Cross with a flag.
They abandoned the King of the Jews — and replaced Him with a Scofield study note.

Christians from 1770 wouldn’t even recognize what passes for Christianity today.
They’d be horrified that anyone calling themselves a follower of Christ could believe that “Israel” means dirt and land— instead of the Body of Christ.

They wouldn’t argue.
They wouldn’t debate charts.
They’d just stare at Fox News, see pastors cheering on war in the name of prophecy…
and probably break down in tears, realizing how deeply the Church has been misled.

From the Cross to the Constitution to Scofield's study notes — That’s the downgrade.
We traded the Kingdom for a country, and the Messiah for a man-made U.N. map.

 

[David in NJ]

There are two return of Christ for His people, the church and Israel.

First return in the clouds where church saints dead and living will be taken up.

Second return with His angels coming down to earth to defend Israel from all their enemies.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Fred,
Breakfast is on me if you find just one scripture/prophecy from the Gospel and/or the Apostles and/or Revelation that clearly states more then one 2nd Coming of Christ.