Is the world under sin considering Jesus paid for it?

[amadeus]

All Christian’s should grow, though there are many parts of the body, from the toe, to the shoulder, to the heart, to the veins, not everyone is remotely the same other than their faith in the one whom, believers, are part of this body of Christ in which we grow, and we be who we will be knowing that the I am, is within us.

If He is in us, what is His purpose within? Is it not to lead us, to direct us to do the work which is our part? If we quench the Spirit of God, what happens to growth?

All of the parts of the Body of Christ must be subject to the Head and must be growing and working while it is day.

"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:4-5

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world..." John 17:11

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matt 5:14

Any part of the Body of Christ which is not growing will die and need to be amputated like a gangrenous member of the carnal body of a man so as not to infect and cause the death of other parts.

What happens to clean pure water when it is left in a pool for an extended period of time with no inlet and no outlet? Eventually, it will stagnate and die!

The parts of the Body of Christ must be doing what then?

What is proper and necessary nourishment for the parts of the Body of Christ?

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53

What is His flesh and what is His blood?

 

[Bob Estey]

1 John 2:2 :He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 6:23 (Jesus paid the wages of sin - > He died!) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Please feel free to share your thoughts and comments.

As long as people choose to sin, there will be trouble. That's why we're not supposed to sin.

 

[Scott Downey]

People die retaining their sins if they do not believe that Christ is God come in the flesh, the I AM that I AM, said in verse this way,
" for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” And a lot of people deny Christ in that way.

When you die in your sins, you die with them unforgiven, and where Christ goes (Heaven), you cannot come.

John 8
21 Then Jesus said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come.”

22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?”

23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”

And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”

 

[MatthewG]

But Scott Jesus had paid for the sins of the world ; which reconciled the world unto God through Christ. Do you believe people have at least been reconciled to God?

 

[MatthewG]

“And the all things [are] of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, ‘Be ye reconciled to God;’ for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭18‬-‭21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

2 Corinthians 5:18-21 And the all things [are] of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himse | Young's Literal Translati

And the all things [are] of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, how that God was in Christ — a world reconciling to Himse

bible.com

 

[Scott Downey]

But Scott paid for the sins of the world ; which reconciled the world unto God through Christ. Do you believe people have at least been reconciled to God?

Only if they obey the command of God to repent and believe in His Son. Acts 17

God is in Christ reconciling to Himself the world, but it must be received and believed by a man for it to be reciprocated.
Otherwise, the process of reconciliation is aborted. If you believe, then God will not hold your sins against you to judgement.
If all were saved, why evangelize the world, or plead with people to be reconciled to God?

2 Corinthians 5
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not [d]imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

v19, the word of reconciliation has conditions, mainly to believe in the reconciliation, by believing in Christ your sins are forgiven you.

A person who rejects the gospel is rejecting the reconciliation provided, and they die in their sins.

 

[Behold]

1 John 2:2 :He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 6:23 (Jesus paid the wages of sin - > He died!) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Please feel free to share your thoughts and comments.

The "world" is "under the Law", which means they are "under sin".
"The power of sin is : THE LAW".

When a person comes to Christ by faith, they are freed from the "curse of the Law" and are now "under GRACE".

 

[MatthewG]

Okay, @Scott Downey

The way that is looked at from my perspective is that Jesus paid for the sins of all the people in the world. His death, burial, and resurrection takes care of sin and allows all people to reconciled to God. Saving them from Hell/Sheol/Sin/Death/Satan and his Angels/False prophet and beast. That is the reconciliation that God has made with man, and if man decides to go ahead and act on faith turning towards the very Living God people look towards, who sent the Son of God, who paid for the price of all of sin, and had victory over sin, and death and all the previous things mentioned, and desire to be saved into the Kingdom of the Heavenly Jerusalem does requite the individual to follow Christ picking up their own Cross - dying with Christ, being buried with Christ, and being raised to new life in Christ by the Spirit, and to live to God and love God first and love others in which they those who choose to have faith and look towards God are saved to the Heavenly Jerusalem where God resides in the Heavenly Realm.

Those who do not want anything to do with God are said to be outside the Kingdom, while believers who do his commandants are found going inside to have access to the tree of life.

(I also do not See God angry at individuals because of them not having anything to do with him, He desires for people to come to know the truth about the Son as you suggested, so that is a good thing, to share Christ Jesus!)

I understand though your view, and respect that view you do have.

 

[MatthewG]

The "world" is "under the Law", which means they are "under sin".
"The power of sin is : THE LAW".

When a person comes to Christ by faith, they are freed from the "curse of the Law" and are now "under GRACE".

Yes, it is amazing that because of Jesus Christ, he put away the law.

Colossians 2:
10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the headover every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcisedwith a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[a] was put off when you were circumcised by[b] Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness,which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

The greatest decision individuals have is the choice to choose.

2 Corinthians 5:
Ambassadors for Christ
…13If we are out of our mind, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14For Christ’s lovecompels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.…

Everyone is dead in Christ until they are Brough back to spiritual life, through spiritual birth right? (John 1:12-13)

 

[Scott Downey]

Okay, @Scott Downey

The way that is looked at from my perspective is that Jesus paid for the sins of all the people in the world. His death, burial, and resurrection takes care of sin and allows all people to reconciled to God. Saving them from Hell/Sheol/Sin/Death/Satan and his Angels/False prophet and beast. That is the reconciliation that God has made with man, and if man decides to go ahead and act on faith turning towards the very Living God people look towards, who sent the Son of God, who paid for the price of all of sin, and had victory over sin, and death and all the previous things mentioned, and desire to be saved into the Kingdom of the Heavenly Jerusalem does requite the individual to follow Christ picking up their own Cross - dying with Christ, being buried with Christ, and being raised to new life in Christ by the Spirit, and to live to God and love God first and love others in which they those who choose to have faith and look towards God are saved to the Heavenly Jerusalem where God resides in the Heavenly Realm.

Those who do not want anything to do with God are said to be outside the Kingdom, while believers who do his commandants are found going inside to have access to the tree of life.

(I also do not See God angry at individuals because of them not having anything to do with him, He desires for people to come to know the truth about the Son as you suggested, so that is a good thing, to share Christ Jesus!)

I understand though your view, and respect that view you do have.

God does not have anger against people?
What is wrath then if not rooted in anger. Wrath is anger carried out into an action, God's wrath is a response caused by His anger.
Psalm 7:11
God is a just judge, And God is angry with the wicked every day.

Romans 1 is in effect today too.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness​

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like [h]corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

 

[Scott Downey]

God also knows how to keep the unjust under punishment and that is what God does, when people are cast into hell's prison to await the final judgement. God's wrath abides on the wicked - unbelievers, the wrath remains continually.

2 Peter 2
8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of [a]dignitaries,

John 3
35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

'abides on him' in perpetuity, forever continually, does not depart

G3306 - menō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv)

G3306 - μένω ménō, men'-o; a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):—abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), thine own.

www.blueletterbible.org

The KJV translates Strong's G3306 in the following manner: abide (61x), remain (16x), dwell (15x), continue (11x), tarry (9x), endure (3x), miscellaneous (5x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to remain, abide
   1. in reference to place
      1. to sojourn, tarry
      2. not to depart
         1. to continue to be present
         2. to be held, kept, continually
   2. in reference to time
      1. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
         1. of persons, to survive, live
   3. in reference to state or condition
      1. to remain as one, not to become another or different
2. to wait for, await one

 

[MatthewG]

Like I stated, I do not see God angry at anyone anymore, due to Jesus Christ and his victory.

You may differ with that, even with the use of the scripture, but I just do not see that is the case if the wrath of God was poured out on the Nation of Israel in 70AD, having destroyed the heaven and earth that they knew.

So yes, those scriptures are there, but when it comes to wrath in general I believe it is talking about the Great and Dreadful day of the LORD - who would come in judgement and the Romans were the ones who went through which were used by God to destroy the nation of Israel by wiping out everything that was there in it, and the temple, the priesthoods, genealogies, alter for sacrifices, all of that stuff was put down and destroyed in which Jesus instated the New Convenant, but also deliver the judgement for having the Son of God killed which the wrath of God was poured out on them.

So God has no more wrath, and I believe those who do wicked deeds, suffer their own consequence for the crimes they commit. Such as sowing to the flesh you reap fleshly rewards you reap to the spirit you reap spiritually which is far better.

 

[MatthewG]

God does not have anger against people?
What is wrath then if not rooted in anger. Wrath is anger carried out into an action, God's wrath is a response caused by His anger.
Psalm 7:11
God is a just judge, And God is angry with the wicked every day.

Romans 1 is in effect today too.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness​

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like [h]corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a lot of wisdom in these words written by Paul to the Saints at Rome.

And John the Baptist was walking and talking about the wrath too:

Luke 3
3 In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar—when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene— 2 during the high-priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:

“A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.
5 Every valley shall be filled in,
every mountain and hill made low.
The crooked roads shall become straight,
the rough ways smooth.
6 And all people will see God’s salvation.’”[a]
7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Malachi 4:5 was a promise for this day which was coming upon them; because He just quoted out of the same book of the scroll of Malachi.

 

[MatthewG]

God also knows how to keep the unjust under punishment and that is what God does, when people are cast into hell's prison to await the final judgement. God's wrath abides on the wicked - unbelievers, the wrath remains continually.

2 Peter 2
8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of [a]dignitaries,

John 3
35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

'abides on him' in perpetuity, forever continually, does not depart

G3306 - menō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv)

G3306 - μένω ménō, men'-o; a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):—abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), thine own.

www.blueletterbible.org

The KJV translates Strong's G3306 in the following manner: abide (61x), remain (16x), dwell (15x), continue (11x), tarry (9x), endure (3x), miscellaneous (5x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to remain, abide
   1. in reference to place
      1. to sojourn, tarry
      2. not to depart
         1. to continue to be present
         2. to be held, kept, continually
   2. in reference to time
      1. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
         1. of persons, to survive, live
   3. in reference to state or condition
      1. to remain as one, not to become another or different
2. to wait for, await one

I disagree that Gods wrath continues continuously.

 

[Scott Downey]

Like I stated, I do not see God angry at anyone anymore, due to Jesus Christ and his victory.

You may differ with that, even with the use of the scripture, but I just do not see that is the case if the wrath of God was poured out on the Nation of Israel in 70AD, having destroyed the heaven and earth that they knew.

So yes, those scriptures are there, but when it comes to wrath in general I believe it is talking about the Great and Dreadful day of the LORD - who would come in judgement and the Romans were the ones who went through which were used by God to destroy the nation of Israel by wiping out everything that was there in it, and the temple, the priesthoods, genealogies, alter for sacrifices, all of that stuff was put down and destroyed in which Jesus instated the New Convenant, but also deliver the judgement for having the Son of God killed which the wrath of God was poured out on them.

So God has no more wrath, and I believe those who do wicked deeds, suffer their own consequence for the crimes they commit. Such as sowing to the flesh you reap fleshly rewards you reap to the spirit you reap spiritually which is far better.

I know you believe all of Revelation is come to pass and there is no more wrath, hell, destruction, but do you also then say there is no more wickedness or sin or sinners? How could God let wickedness continually get away with being wicked with no punishing response, wickedness and violence would fill the universe.

God had an answer with the flood of Noah which worked for a time as a reset, but God's final action will be destroying all the wicked in the lake of fire, and creating new heavens and new earth in which is righteousness, means there will be no more wickedness and violence on the new earth. Yet today the earth is filled with wickedness and violence, God is not a liar, so we are not living in the time of the new earth.

2 Peter 3
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[Scott Downey]

Isaiah 66, When we get the new earth, all flesh will come and worship before the Lord.
We do not see this today. The new resurrected body will be like Christ's, and his was flesh and bone.
The life of the flesh is in the blood. but the new body the life is in Christ's shed blood for us, the blood of the body is no longer needed for life. We don't get flesh and blood bodies in the resurrection, but we will have a similar glorified body to Christ's
Our transformed glorified bodies we do not have yet, that happens before the new earth God makes.

22“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone has been made into a blank slate because of Christ, from my belief.

Because of Christ, God was able to reconcile the world unto himself.

Restoring it back to the way it was with Adam and Eve in the Garden.

People make their choice; to eat from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil which God had created to be eat from, or to eat from the tree of life and to live forever.

Jesus the the vine, the everlasting bread, the everlasting water, he is also the bread of life.

This is why in Revelation, 21-22, which are pictures and type suggest a place for believers, and a place also for those who did not believe.

 

[Enoch111]

But Scott Jesus had paid for the sins of the world ; which reconciled the world unto God through Christ. Do you believe people have at least been reconciled to God?

There are two sides to reconciliation. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Why? Because Christ paid for the sins of the whole world. But then God requires that sinners be reconciled to Him by (1) repenting and (2) believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and what He accomplished for them in His death, burial, and resurrection. So unless a sinner obeys the Gospel, he or she remains an enemy of God and an alien to the family of God. And Jesus said that only a relatively few will be saved.

 

[MatthewG]

Just depends on what you believe about Sin and its payment. Not many people believe that even the devil and things mentions previously have been conquered over yet either.

 

[Peterlag]

1 John 2:2 :He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 6:23 (Jesus paid the wages of sin - > He died!) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Please feel free to share your thoughts and comments.

The way that I understand the entire scope of the New Testament makes me believe that Christ paid for all the sins for those who get born again as we see in just 2 verses before 2 Corinthians 5:19 that you mention. There in verse 17 it's referring to those who have become a new creature in Christ. I just put up a one page website on this new nature just last week and you can read it here... www.carb-fat.com/spirit.html