Is there a recipe for discipleship?

[JesusIsFaithful]

well i might agree here, but surely the religious argument is that salvation via repentance and baptism have already been accomplished to their standards before any attempt at what they accept as baptism of the spirit is occasioned? So i guess i still am not getting this "separate from salvation" thing.

Tongue speakers are saved believers that receive a supernatural phenomenon of what they believe is the Holy Spirit coming over them long after they have been saved, bringing tongues without interpretation which is why many believe that tongues can be used as a prayer language by the Holy Spirit, but it is false, because tongues are for speaking unto the people; not for the Holy Spirit to use as a prayer language. John 16:13 & 1 Corinthians 14:21

So because of this phenomenon, some will preach that believers receives the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with the evidence of tongues, but Romans 8:9 says any who does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His, thus born again of the Spirit is receiving eternal life by believing in Him.

Some will preach the same experience to mean this is another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, but Ephesians 4:4-6 states there is only one hope of our calling and therefore one baptism with the One Spirit. Ephesians 1:11-15 cites that trusting in Jesus is when one has received the promise of the Spirit and our inheritance of eternal life.

And even again, a few will preach that this means as a sign that God is calling them into the ministry, but tongues were never meant to serve as a sign to believers about anything 1 Corinthians 14:22

Paul warned against those that preach another Jesus or another spirit to receive and thus another gospel; 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 as the examnation of our faith is that Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 )

I hope the Father shall reveal His Son to you soon so you can believe in Him and be saved, but when you do, trust Him to be your personal Good Shepherd because a lot of believers are giving out invitations to saved believers that was not given by Jesus at all, because the promise of the Spirit was to be received by faith in Jesus Christ; not by a sign of tongues for saved believers to seek after. That is why they can rest in Jesus that they are filled, so that they shall not hunger nor thirst any more after they have been saved.

 

[bbyrd009]

Tongue speakers are saved believers

or they are at least crying "LordLord" the loudest lol

etc.

ah ok, ty, i was not aware of this other doctrine.

I hope the Father shall reveal His Son to you soon so you can believe in Him and be saved

ah well ty, i hope the same for you.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

or they are at least crying "LordLord" the loudest lol
ah ok, ty, i was not aware of this other doctrine.

ah well ty, i hope the same for you.

I believe in Him and am saved.

I had thought you had posted that you were not a believer in Jesus Christ? If that was an error, I apologize.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe in Him and am saved.

after that great post, too, lol. Already saved, you're sure? OSAS? How did you get saved, may i ask?

 

[bbyrd009]

I had thought you had posted that you were not a believer in Jesus Christ?

i believe in Christ; but do i manifest Christ? satan believes too, i hear. God can make believers from rocks, i guess.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

i believe in Christ; but do i manifest Christ? satan believes too, i hear. God can make believers from rocks, i guess.

How do you manifest Christ? Believe in Him as your Good Shepherd; trust Him to do His work in you as He will finish you to His glory.

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you manifest Christ? Believe in Him as your Good Shepherd; trust Him to do His work in you as He will finish you to His glory.

sounds good to me, but imo we are supposed to function in the world without being part of it, and i think Christ is manifest much more practically, in your next decision, as well.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

sounds good to me, but imo we are supposed to function in the world without being part of it, and i think Christ is manifest much more practically, in your next decision, as well.

I trust Him in leading me to make the decision... and if it is a wrong one, I trust Him to correct me.

Psalm 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way. 24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.

Psalm 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. 13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord, my strength, and my redeemer.

So trust the Lord as your Good Shepherd for all things. Put all of your hopes in following Him on Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd.

Psalm 33:18 Behold, the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy. 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. 20 Our soul waiteth for the Lord: he is our help and our shield. 21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O Lord, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

Here are the same hope in the N.T. but is not an actual living hope in Christ Jesus.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

This is why little children are free to come to Him because all they can do is trust in the Lord and hope in His words.

 

[perrero]

I trust Him in leading me to make the decision... and if it is a wrong one, I trust Him to correct me.

You finely admit that you make decision, trusting in Jesus, and that sometimes these may be wrong and most of times, hopefully, most are right. But you have not lost your freewill to make decisions.

 

[bbyrd009]

You finely admit that you make decision, trusting in Jesus, and that sometimes these may be wrong and most of times, hopefully, most are right. But you have not lost your freewill to make decisions.

i'm seeing this a lot in Christianity lately, this denial of free will, mirrors the secular debate imo. I don't know if it's a Tares thing, or just a way to deny responsibility for changing your mind, or what.

Things change when enough people come together to change them, and they don't change until then, at least in my experience. Whenever i hear some professing Christian suggest that they have no free will, i usually/always observe someone completely caught up in the world too.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You finely admit that you make decision, trusting in Jesus, and that sometimes these may be wrong and most of times, hopefully, most are right. But you have not lost your freewill to make decisions.

Is there power in that decision by that free will? Is there power in the religious flesh? Is there will power? Not for sinners in their sinful flesh, there is not because no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. Power belongs to God Who strengthens me and He is how I am following Him.

 

[bbyrd009]

there is not because no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak.

?
that is a different concept, and you are just mixing the two. The flesh is weak, so you might make a choice that serves the flesh, but that does not mean that the choice to serve the Spirit was not available to you, just that you didn't want to do it. A further reflection on this is that we are called to bring the flesh under subjection; another thing that cannot be done without free will.

 

[bbyrd009]

Power belongs to God Who strengthens me and He is how I am following Him.

seems pretty circular, wadr. You have the power of life and death, you, personally, right now, and you will be judged for your works. If you have no free will, how could you be judged for your works?

 

[perrero]

Is there power in that decision by that free will? Is there power in the religious flesh? Is there will power? Not for sinners in their sinful flesh, there is not because no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. Power belongs to God Who strengthens me and He is how I am following Him.

I totally agree that their is no power in the freewill decision that you make. What it does, is it sets you on a course of obedience or disobedience. God takes that decision and at His will hardens it, gives you power to follow through, etc.

 

[Sword]

Thought I would throw this in the 3000 saved on penticost who were baptised and recived the Holy Ghost. They never went under water that day.
I know a man who done a great study on this. I will post it here if I can find it.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

?
that is a different concept, and you are just mixing the two. The flesh is weak, so you might make a choice that serves the flesh, but that does not mean that the choice to serve the Spirit was not available to you, just that you didn't want to do it. A further reflection on this is that we are called to bring the flesh under subjection; another thing that cannot be done without free will.

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

We have free will, but there is no power in yourself that is in our religious flesh to keep any decision you make by that free will.

Faith rolls it off unto the Other; namely Jesus Christ.

If you make a promise not to sin; God cannot help you keep your promise; the keeping of your promise is on you to do it & to finish it.

If you deny yourself as being able to keep that promise not to sin, and trust in Him and all His promises under the New Covenant that He will help you not to live in sin where it has dominion over our life, then by your faith in Him, you will find yourself following Him by the grace of God.

If you read the prayer Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, then you know He will lead us away from temptation and deliver us from the evil one for thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever... amen.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

seems pretty circular, wadr. You have the power of life and death, you, personally, right now, and you will be judged for your works. If you have no free will, how could you be judged for your works?

Ask Him what He meant then, on how to follow Him.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

I totally agree that their is no power in the freewill decision that you make. What it does, is it sets you on a course of obedience or disobedience. God takes that decision and at His will hardens it, gives you power to follow through, etc.

My free will is to believe in Him as my Good Shepherd that He will help me to follow Him. I want & need Him to help me to follow Him, therefore I trust Him to do it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I totally agree that their is no power in the freewill decision that you make.

"you have the power of life and death in your tongue."

 

[perrero]

Thought I would throw this in the 3000 saved on penticost who were baptised and recived the Holy Ghost. They never went under water that day.
I know a man who done a great study on this. I will post it here if I can find it.

I would agree with you on that one. Peter's appeal to the crowd had the 3 witnesses in it. Blood (Repent), Water (be baptized), Spirit (and receive the Holy Spirit) but for the crowd repentance is the key and the only baptism that counts for salvation (The baptism by the Spirit of the believer into the body of Christ at the moment of conversion).