Is There Different Beliefs Among Catholics? Chrislam Movement?

[Nondenom40]

And there is ONE set of teachings. The Church does not have a police department. There have always been divisions, schisms, heresies and disputes. That's why we have councils and synods: to FIND the truth, not INVENT it.

Ligouri is both a Dr. and saint in your church. Is his 'The Glories of Mary' considered a faithful treatment of catholic teaching? He calls mary omnipotent several times. Is this just him inventing it or is it catholic teaching? And regarding 'finding truth or inventing it'....How exactly does your church 'find truth' hundreds of years after the apostolic age? Here are some examples of your church 'finding truth', whatever that even means. Cuz it wasn't found in scripture.

papal infallibility
theotokos
marys IC
marys assumption
the papacy
purgatory
penance
bread being god.....thats a lot of truth to 'find' outside of scripture. The fact is all these and more are invented, not found.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Term catholic has its roots in the Greek language.

only see, you are not even using the greek term right, but the english, and Catholic in english does not mean catholic in greek, mos def, bc i just went to a Greek ortho church and they dont even use it that way anymore. 2k years ago, yes, herenow, no.

so dont get me wrong, you have an argument, but it is also mostly a justification. Roman Catholics have a king, and the sense of catholic you are advocating implies no earthly king whatsoever, yeh?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sorry for the delay. Basically its he said, she said. I've seen seds destroy post vat 2 catholics because encyclicals prior to vat 2 contradict what vat 2 says. Which is the reason for the split. Kinda like what your pope is doing today and causing no small uproar concerning doctrine or the faith in general. Your own cardinals have tried to bend his ear on some things and he hasn't responded. Wheres this whole 'take it to the church' thing happening when your own cardinals can't 'take it to the church'?

The only reason you’re seed Sedevacantists “destroy” post Vatican II Catholics is because frankly, THEY were as ignorant of Catholic teaching as YOU are. They don’t understand the difference between doctrine and discipline – Tradition and tradition.

Like I said before – the first red flag you should notice about Sedevacantists is that they are splintered into dozens of groups. This goes against one of the MAIN tenets of the Catholic Church, which is ONENESS (unity).

As for people who disagree with the Pope – there have ALWAYS been dissidents within the Church – and there always WILL be.

 

[BreadOfLife]

.Yes. Many chose to Disagree with and moved AWAY from man-made Catholic teaching, and chose instead to Hear, Read and Trust the Word of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yup – to the tune of tens of thousands of perpetually splintering Protestant sects that ALL teaching different doctrines bas on their different interpretations of Scripture – and ALL claiming they were “led” to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess you’ve all made . . .

 

[Nondenom40]

The only reason you’re seed Sedevacantists “destroy” post Vatican II Catholics is because frankly, THEY were as ignorant of Catholic teaching as YOU are. They don’t understand the difference between doctrine and discipline – Tradition and tradition.

Like I said before – the first red flag you should notice about Sedevacantists is that they are splintered into dozens of groups. This goes against one of the MAIN tenets of the Catholic Church, which is ONENESS (unity).

Right, so you know all the names of the people ive seen discuss this and you KNOW they are ignorant? Thats arrogant on your part don't ya think? Is there an encyclical prior to vat 2 that says people outside of the rcc can be saved? Because catholic teaching was that there is NO salvation outside of the rcc. Then along comes vat 2 with invincible ignorance and there ya go, anyone that doesn't even know the gospel or your church can be saved...ccc 1260. Now i don't have a dog in this fight and i couldn't care less what you all debate about. I just know the seds have post vat 2 catholics over a barrel when it comes to some things.

As for people who disagree with the Pope – there have ALWAYS been dissidents within the Church – and there always WILL be.

Riiiiiggghht. The pope is always 100% right? Any and all disagreements with him is tantamount to being a dissident? How cultic of you. And your cardinals have a pretty good case against your current pope for some things hes written they want clarification on. He won't meet. So much for taking it to the church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right, so you know all the names of the people ive seen discuss this and you KNOW they are ignorant? Thats arrogant on your part don't ya think? Is there an encyclical prior to vat 2 that says people outside of the rcc can be saved? Because catholic teaching was that there is NO salvation outside of the rcc. Then along comes vat 2 with invincible ignorance and there ya go, anyone that doesn't even know the gospel or your church can be saved...ccc 1260. Now i don't have a dog in this fight and i couldn't care less what you all debate about. I just know the seds have post vat 2 catholics over a barrel when it comes to some things.

Riiiiiggghht. The pope is always 100% right? Any and all disagreements with him is tantamount to being a dissident? How cultic of you. And your cardinals have a pretty good case against your current pope for some things hes written they want clarification on. He won't meet. So much for taking it to the church.

This is precisely WHY I said that you and your Catholic friends were ignorant of Catholic teaching.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (No Salvation Outside the Church) with its teaching about Invincible Ignorance doesn’t contradict previous Catholic teaching on the matter. It simply further defines it.

It would be similar to a law regarding Grand Theft – and years later, listing specific items that constitute Grand Theft. This doesn’t “contradict” or “change” the law. It simply defines it further for better understanding.

And WHO said that the Pope is “always 100% right”??
Once again – your ignorance of Catholic teaching rears its ugly head . . .

The Pope is only infallible when he officially declares teaching on matters of faith and morals.
If he was “always” right – that would make him impeccable – not infallible . . .

 

[Taken]

only see, you are not even using the greek term right, but the english, and Catholic in english does not mean catholic in greek, mos def, bc i just went to a Greek ortho church and they dont even use it that way anymore. 2k years ago, yes, herenow, no.

So, How do the catholics use the term now?

so dont get me wrong, you have an argument, but it is also mostly a justification. Roman Catholics have a king, and the sense of catholic you are advocating implies no earthly king whatsoever, yeh?

Christ's earthly Throne is King Davids Everlasting Throne, established By God.
Currently, Christ's Kingdom is not of "this" world.
Currently, I have a Heavenly Father, God, and an Earthly father, Abraham, as God promised Abraham would be a father of many nations;
And he who is IN Christ is a son of Abraham.

I don't know what the Roman Catholics/Catholics have.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Yup – to the tune of tens of thousands of perpetually splintering Protestant sects that ALL teaching different doctrines bas on their different interpretations of Scripture – and ALL claiming they were “led” to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.

What a mess you’ve all made . . .

I have no problem with a Protestants Honesty to join with Like Believing people, Unlike so many Catholics who stay yoked with their Church, but disagree with so much of what the Church and its Priests do, while Preaching Against what they do....
Sounds similar to what the Pharisees did..
Oops.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

we find in the letters of Ignatius

ah yes, one of Paul's wolves.

I already referenced, it is a Term a group of Gentiles elected as their Church Title.

^

i know the wolves will rush in as soon as i leave, not sparing the flock.

No offense taken.
The Term catholic has its roots in the Greek language.

The Greek roots of the term “Catholic” mean “according to (kata-) the whole (holos),” or more colloquially, “universal.” At the beginning of the second century, we find in the letters of Ignatius the first surviving use of the term “Catholic” in reference to the Church. Referencescatholic.com / wikipedia)



I already referenced, it is a Term a group of Gentiles elected as their Church Title.

"Glad that is your experience..."

still breaking the software huh lol ok

So, How do the catholics use the term now?

dont know, dont care wadr. That is beyond my boundary stone

 

[Nondenom40]

This is precisely WHY I said that you and your Catholic friends were ignorant of Catholic teaching.

This is what you said;

The only reason you’re seed Sedevacantists “destroy” post Vatican II Catholics is because frankly, THEY were as ignorant of Catholic teaching as YOU are.

Unless youre omniscient you have no clue what other people know. This is the arrogance of catholicism.

Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (No Salvation Outside the Church) with its teaching about Invincible Ignorance doesn’t contradict previous Catholic teaching on the matter. It simply further defines it.

It would be similar to a law regarding Grand Theft – and years later, listing specific items that constitute Grand Theft. This doesn’t “contradict” or “change” the law. It simply defines it further for better understanding.

Ah yes, acorn to oak tree gibberish. You just keep adding to the same thing to be further enlightened. "Theres NO salvation outside of the rcc, but..."
Thats catholicism in a nutshell. The religion of loopholes.

And WHO said that the Pope is “always 100% right”??
Once again – your ignorance of Catholic teaching rears its ugly head . . .

The Pope is only infallible when he officially declares teaching on matters of faith and morals.
If he was “always” right – that would make him impeccable – not infallible . . .

A. you said anyone that disagrees with the pope is a dissident. Thats cult speak but its your cult.
B. no such thing as papal infallibility so thats out the door as well. And since when is infallibility confined or restricted to faith and morals? This is designed by your church to reel in the masses and control people. You have to redefine words to get your religion to work.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is what you said;
Unless youre omniscient you have no clue what other people know. This is the arrogance of catholicism.

Ah yes, acorn to oak tree gibberish. You just keep adding to the same thing to be further enlightened. "Theres NO salvation outside of the rcc, but..."
Thats catholicism in a nutshell. The religion of loopholes.

Nonsense. It was simply defined at the 2nd Vatican Council.

Show me an earlier comprehensive definition . . .

A. you said anyone that disagrees with the pope is a dissident. Thats cult speak but its your cult.

Really?
Show me where I made this statement.

You lie so much, you can't even keep track . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have no problem with a Protestants Honesty to join with Like Believing people, Unlike so many Catholics who stay yoked with their Church, but disagree with so much of what the Church and its Priests do, while Preaching Against what they do....
Sounds similar to what the Pharisees did..
Oops.
Glory to God,
Taken

It's called "Unity", and it's what Christ prayed for at the Last Supper for His Church (John 17:20-21).

Being outside of that Church, you wouldn't have a clue . . .

 

[Taken]

It's called "Unity", and it's what Christ prayed for at the Last Supper for His Church (John 17:20-21).

Being outside of that Church, you wouldn't have a clue . . .

LOL...Unity, is being IN AGREEMENT.
Many people claim to be Catholic and do not agree with the what your clerics teach.

Hypocrites.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

SINLESS - Jesus
And?
SINLESS - no one else on earth

Seriously BOL...
stop fighting against the Truth.

Heb 4
[15] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 9
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[aspen]

I have some Catholic friends that agree with primary doctrines of Christian Churches here in the US. Our disagreements are on secondary doctrines which doesn't bother me. If they want to wear long robes in church or swing containers of incense up and down the aisles, or wear big cross symbols on their chest, so be it. As long as their sole belief and faith are in Jesus Christ and do not become a stumbling block for new christians. These same friends do not agree wholeheartedly on everything that goes on at the Vatican So my question is, coming from a non Catholic background, do some Catholics really support the Vatican and the Pope trying to bring together Christians + Islam, THE CHRISLAM MOVEMENT ? Or is this just the Radical Catholics? My Catholic friends do not support the Chrislam Movement, so there must be different types/levels of Catholicism?

Someone please educate me?

The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!

There are liberal and conservative Catholics just like liberal and conservative people in every other circle; there are nutjobs within both groups.

For example, I tend to think “Chrislam” belongs to the ideas that a minority of conservative Protestants worry about. As a radically moderate Catholic, I do not see reaching out in love towards Muslims as acceptance of their doctrinal errors

 

[Nondenom40]

Nonsense. It was simply defined at the 2nd Vatican Council.

Show me an earlier comprehensive definition . . .

So your church never made the claim that outside of the rcc there is no salvation? You gonna stick with that? The seds after vat 2 had nothing to bark about right? They completely missed the point?

Really?
Show me where I made this statement.

"As for people who disagree with the Pope – there have ALWAYS been dissidents within the Church – and there always WILL be."
People who disagree with the pope....dissidents. Or don't you remember that?

You lie so much, you can't even keep track . . .

And this is where we part company again. When you can't keep up you hurl insults. Have a good lie...i mean life.

 

[bbyrd009]

SINLESS - no one else on earth

i know this is gonna sound weird maybe, but be perfect as I am perfect is not about "sinning" at all imo, but forgiveness

 

[bbyrd009]

There are liberal and conservative Catholics just like liberal and conservative people in every other circle; there are nutjobs within both groups.

For example, I tend to think “Chrislam” belongs to the ideas that a minority of conservative Protestants worry about. As a radically moderate Catholic, I do not see reaching out in love towards Muslims as acceptance of their doctrinal errors

doctrine becomes the tree that we hide behind, yeh?

you and i have corresponded--accent on the respond part i guess--for what, years now, right? And im vaguely aware that you might ID as RCC? But i could be wrong?

 

[bbyrd009]

So your church never made the claim that outside of the rcc there is no salvation? You gonna stick with that? The seds after vat 2 had nothing to bark about right? They completely missed the point?


"As for people who disagree with the Pope – there have ALWAYS been dissidents within the Church – and there always WILL be."
People who disagree with the pope....dissidents. Or don't you remember that?


And this is where we part company again. When you can't keep up you hurl insults. Have a good lie...i mean life.

it is no less than an insult and manufacturing division to allow Catholics into a Christian board imo, w/o at least providing them a forum of their own. Im sure it makes for more clicks, but i would much rather be charged a membership tbh.

We are pitted against each other here

not that anyone should have to suffer BoL for this long w/o seeing some evidence of change imo. How many times does he get to call everyone else liars?

 

[aspen]

doctrine becomes the tree that we hide behind, yeh?

you and i have corresponded--accent on the respond part i guess--for what, years now, right? And im vaguely aware that you might ID as RCC? But i could be wrong?

yes I am Catholic

I have been posting here for more than a decade and I would not like it if I was relegated to a Catholic section.

I am not sure you would like being told you had to post in the heretic section, bbyd, because of your rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity?

I agree that rude people should have their own section. Rude Catholics and rude Protestants and rude heretics.