Is there opportunity to repent after death?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you have the time to post scriptures that support your opinion?

No, I'm not going to the trouble of digging all that out just to have you say you don't believe it.

John did say 'Behold the lamb of GOD taking the sin of the world'. John's gospel

The strength of sin is the law, but we are dead to the law, so sin's power over us is broken. Paul's writings

Sin is still with us, so Jesus hasn't taken sin away yet. In fact, sin will be with us until the very end, after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Book of Revelation

 

[jiggyfly]

No, I'm not going to the trouble of digging all that out just to have you say you don't believe it.

John did say 'Behold the lamb of GOD taking the sin of the world'. John's gospel

The strength of sin is the law, but we are dead to the law, so sin's power over us is broken. Paul's writings

Sin is still with us, so Jesus hasn't taken sin away yet. In fact, sin will be with us until the very end, after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Book of Revelation

Then this is just your unsupported subjective opinion. I suggest you make some time to study the scriptures then come back with some scriptural support. Looking forward to a fruitful discussion with you.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Without repentance? So at what point in a person's life are they required to repent?

Please give scripture(s) supporting your belief.


I don't think it is unclear at all but then it's not my paradigm it's conflicting with either.
So when do you suppose those referred to were given an opportunity, please support with scripture.


Any scripture?

I would imagine as David noted, that although he could not see his child now he would see him again. First through death and then heaven. Now, this may ONLY apply to the Elects children, but it's in scripture.

2Sa 12:21-23 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

 

[jiggyfly]

I would imagine as David noted, that although he could not see his child now he would see him again. First through death and then heaven. Now, this may ONLY apply to the Elects children, but it's in scripture.

2Sa 12:21-23 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Can you elaborate some on how this scripture addresses the question?

 

[jiggyfly]

1 Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.2 These people are hypocrites and liars, and their consciences are dead. 3 They will say it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods. But God created those foods to be eaten with thanks by faithful people who know the truth.4 Since everything God created is good, we should not reject any of it but receive it with thanks.5 For we know it is made acceptable by the word of God and prayer.
A Good Servant of Christ Jesus
6 If you explain these things to the brothers and sisters, Timothy, you will be a worthy servant of Christ Jesus, one who is nourished by the message of faith and the good teaching you have followed.7 Do not waste time arguing over godless ideas and old wives’ tales. Instead, train yourself to be godly.8 “Physical training is good, but training for godliness is much better, promising benefits in this life and in the life to come.”9 This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it.10 This is why we work hard and continue to struggle, for our hope is in the living God, who is the Savior of all people and particularly of all believers.
1 Tim 4:1-10 (NLT)

 

[jiggyfly]

22 I saw no temple in the city, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.23 And the city has no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light.24 The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the world will enter the city in all their glory.25 Its gates will never be closed at the end of day because there is no night there.26 And all the nations will bring their glory and honor into the city.27 Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Rev 21:22-27 (NLT)

 

[Raeneske]

The spirits in prison were those who died before Christ came down incarnated in the form of man. Noah was one of those spirits in prison. Noah knew God the Father, but He did not know the Son. So, after Christ died, Jesus went to those spirits and preached the Gospel to them....so they would also know who the Son of God is, for those who believe in Jesus will have eternal life. The Gospels that Christ preached to them was that He came to conquer death and set them free by redeeming mankind. Before Christ, all those who died were held prisoners by death and could not enter God's kingdom. After His resurrection, those spirits in prison were now able to enter God's kingdom after hearing the Gospels preached to them....for the Gospels are for both the living and the dead (1 Peter 4:6).

This is why it is important to preach the Gospels to all nations just as Jesus commanded His Apostles to do. Those who hear the gospels and believe in Jesus Christ will have eternal life. However, there are those who have never heard of Jesus Christ. For example, if a Buddhist child grew up in an environment where he never heard Jesus' name nor read the Bible......it is possible that salvation is open to him because the child never rejected Christ. Only those who rejected Christ will be condemned. But in order to reject Christ, one must first HEAR about Him. And if that Buddhist child dies having never heard of the name of Jesus or the Gospels, then it is possible that Christ will come to this child and preach to him just as He did to the spirits who were held prisoners by death. If the Buddhist child believes, then it is possible that he/she could also have eternal life despite that he/she has already died.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

 

[IBeMe]

HEB:9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[BibleFeast]

Great reply IBeMe. That hit the nail on the head

 

[jiggyfly]

HEB:9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Absolutely judgment comes after men die as opposed to before men die, and of course judgment is not the same as punishment or execution of sentence.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I see a lot of opinions, many of them strongly stating that no opportunity for repentance exists after death. While it must be said that repentance is not available to those who spent a life time rejecting the love of God, it must also be said that the full revelation of Jesus Christ can and will happen after death for those who responded to God's grace during their life but didn't know who God was. The blind man healed by Jesus may well speak for much of humanity in saying, "Who is he (the son of God) that I might believe in him?" To know God is to know the love God has for every man and that God is at work in the lives of everyone to enter into a love relationship with him. A multitude of reasons exists that somebody doesn't come to the full revelation of God in Jesus Christ, one of the most conspicuous being that they never heard the name of Christ. And yet when we read the first chapter of Romans, we see that inside all of us is an internal witness condemning us or excusing us based on the choices we made.

But how about those who have fallen into grave sin? Judas Maccabeus lead the Jewish armies in one successful campaign after another. There could be no greater token that God was on their side than the fact that after every battle they suffered not one casualty of war while decimating their opponents. So it was puzzling after a particular battle when 3 men were killed. Upon inspection, it was found that they each wore amulets of a foreign God. Judas Maccabeus prayed for them "that they may be loosed from their sins". The fact that this historical event occurs in books removed from Protestant Bibles is a subject for another debate. Suffice to say that God is not constrained by the same temporal/linear/sequential paradigm as we are and that God can be moved to mercy acting outside of time.

Purgatory is a confusing doctrine to those who don't understand it. To put it simply, it's not a second chance for those who rejected God in life, it's a preparation process for those who are bound for heaven. Purgatory as a concept makes sense not only to Catholics, but even to such Protestants as C.S. Lewis who was a strong advocate for a phase of preparation before being fit for heaven. The fires of purgatory cleanse us from the temporal consequences of sin, purge us from all lust and fleshly desire that reside even in the most holy among us, and make us holy and ready for eternal happiness in the perpetual presence of God. But to say that Purgatory saves some who are otherwise destined for hell is to misunderstand the teaching on a fundamental level.

 

[IBeMe]

"Purgatory is a confusing doctrine to those who don't understand it."

1CO:14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, ...

HEB:9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

After death comes judgement; end of story.

2CO:5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

HEB:6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

REV:20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[jiggyfly]

"Purgatory is a confusing doctrine to those who don't understand it."

1CO:14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, ...

HEB:9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

After death comes judgement; end of story.

2CO:5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

HEB:6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

REV:20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

When after death? What is this judgment? Are you familiar with God's judgment? Does God chastise before He judges? Many confuse God's judgment with His wrath.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

"Purgatory is a confusing doctrine to those who don't understand it."

1CO:14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, ...

HEB:9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

After death comes judgement; end of story.

2CO:5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

HEB:6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

REV:20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

You missed the point of my post entirely and it seems you didn't even read it. I affirmed that there is no repentance after death, but there is a full revelation of Jesus Christ after death, particularly for those who have unwittingly had a relationship with God. Though the full revelation and acceptance of the gospel of Christ in this life is optimal, there are many reasons why it doesn't happen, either human weakness, the circumstances of one's life, or any other number of factors. God is at work in the life of every human being, whom he created in His image, to draw them into a loving relationship with Him. Much of this evangelistic work of the Holy Spirit happens beneath the surface, but the evidence of one's life, how they loved, how they acted, how they sacrificed, shows they were in communion with the singular source of all love and goodness even if they never intellectually came to understand the God they unwittingly served. So what happens after death isn't a second chance for those who were hostile to God and rejected his grace in their lifetime, it's an unredacted epiphany to those who chose to know and love God in their lifetime.

 

[jiggyfly]

When after death? What is this judgment? Are you familiar with God's judgment? Does God chastise before He judges? Many confuse God's judgment with His wrath.

What, no answers?

 

[veteran]

There will... be an opportunity for some to believe on Christ Jesus after... they die in the flesh.

That is one of the things Christ's future "thousand years" reign is for.

Because of the station in life and consequences many have been born into, not everyone has had 'their' opportunity to 'hear' The Gospel of Jesus Christ and confess Him as Christ The Saviour.

Those of us that have had opportunity are without excuse if we refuse Him.


When Jesus returns and begins His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 with His elect priests and kings, like God said through Isaiah, those that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and those who murmured shall learn doctrine...

Isa 29:18-24
18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
23 But when he seeth his children, the work of Mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify My name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
(KJV)

 

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That would appear not to be the case. There is no mention of anything after death but judgment.

... it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Hebrews 9:27

Judgment is executed against what is done in this life, in a body. A dead person's soul has no body. If it doesn't have a body, how can it repent?

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

A dead person's soul can have regrets after death, but that is not repentance. The dead rich man in Luke 16:19-31 was not offered repentance even though he wanted to keep others out of what he was in.

I was going to quote the same verse, but you did it first.
I was going to make the same statement about the after life, but you did it first.

The point of difficulty is that most folk do not understand the difference between time and eternity. Time changes. Eternity does not.

C.S. Lewis suggested that man is a spiritual amphibian - part physical body and part spiritual body. Ancient Christian theologians went to great lengths to explain and expand on the idea. Man is part spirit and part flesh. While the spirit cannot change, it can be reborn as something else and that's why Jesus said 'you must be born again'.

The problem with the spirit of man is that it has no self-identity apart from its connection to the physical body. Once the body dies, all that its has known and all that it has reference to is lost. Gone. Dead. Forever apart with no hope of reintegration. The identity - that which defines the man - is taken away by natural causes.

Hell is not a place of medieval flame. It is torment that arises from a loss of identity. It is a place of total and utter blackness.
The Bible describes the lost as stars wandering in an endless void of darkness. Nothing is worse than losing one's identity. It is a burning and a thirst greater than that caused by any fire.

The greatest single mental and spiritual question in the hearts of man today is his identity. Clothing, for example, used to have labels inside so that the wearer would know where he got it. Today labels and logos are outside the clothing so that we can show others who we are. Identity. We identify with a nation, with a sport team, with a community, with a family and for some even with a popular TV show like Star Trek or Xfiles. Identity is life and when its lost there is nothing.

Philosophers, who are the secular equivalent of speaking in tongues, wrestle with the concept of identity. More often than not, even angels don't know what philosophers are talking about. But it sounds good to some.

Human identity is lost at death - unless the human spirit merges with another spiritual identity. It's called being born-again and is only possible in Jesus Christ. At that point the spirit of God actually merges and meshes with the human spirit to create an entirely new creature, a new spirit. The pages of the NT are full of references to this new creature and it isn't simply a conviction. It is physical and spiritual reality that allows the identity to survive physical death.

One of the things that teaches man his identity is pain. Smashing one's finger proves that one has a finger. Pain proves limits and proves to the mind the extent of the body. Pleasure does the same thing although nothing draws as much attention to itself as pain. Nobody likes it, but pain proves one's identity and shows one his limits.

As soon as the honeymoon of the experience of the second birth is over - pain starts. It is evidenced in doubt, spiritual battles, mental and physical wrestling of all sorts with a special point as to the faith. One is said to grow in the faith, but what is actually happening at a very deep level is the definition of spiritual identity - an identity that cannot die.

Those that do not have the second birth do not wrestle in the spirit. They may have intellectual debates, but it never goes to the depth of spiritual pain. Ever. Nobody likes pain, physical or spiritual or otherwise yet it too is a blessing in that it defines our identity. It shows us who and what we are. It proves that part of us will live forever.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[veteran]

Christ Jesus gave an example of the state after flesh death at the end of Luke 16 with the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

Both wound up in Paradise, with Lazarus on one side across a great fixed gulf, and the rich man was taken to the abode of hell where he was torments. That kind of separation will continue all the way to the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

 

[logabe]

There will... be an opportunity for some to believe on Christ Jesus after... they die in the flesh.

That is one of the things Christ's future "thousand years" reign is for.

Because of the station in life and consequences many have been born into, not everyone has had 'their' opportunity to 'hear' The Gospel of Jesus Christ and confess Him as Christ The Saviour.

Those of us that have had opportunity are without excuse if we refuse Him.


When Jesus returns and begins His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 with His elect priests and kings, like God said through Isaiah, those that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and those who murmured shall learn doctrine...

Isa 29:18-24
18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
23 But when he seeth his children, the work of Mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify My name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
(KJV)

Let me get this right... you are saying that some will have a 2nd chance? I'm proud of
you Veteran... so if some have a 2nd chance... why not ALL?

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Let me get this right... you are saying that some will have a 2nd chance? I'm proud of
you Veteran... so if some have a 2nd chance... why not ALL?

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

Veteran said, "Those of us that have had opportunity are without excuse if we refuse Him." How is that promoting the idea of a second chance? Do I need to define "second" for you?