Is this out of your reasoning?

[Helen]

imo God speaks to us all of the time but generally speaking we lack hearing?

Now that does "hit the nail" squarely on the head.
I believe one of our daily requests from the Lord is that He open our ears to hear, and eyes to see.
I too believe that He is always "speaking" to us in one way or the other...If we are NOT "hearing Him" the we are tuned into a different wave-length.

Stay tuned...

 

[bbyrd009]

Since this is the kind of fascinating book most people can hardly set down if they are truly hearing the author, I would suggest you just forget about reading it. If you have already tried watching the movie twice and get nothing, reading the book will likely just be an unpleasant task to you.

well, i'm more of a book guy, it may have just been the presentation or something.

 

[Willie T]

well, i'm more of a book guy, it may have just been the presentation or something.

It's not really a very technically "well-written" book. But it IS compelling and intriguing.

 

[Butterfly]

They are sets of questions I gathered from different sources. Some of them do overlap a bit since there are only just so many questions you can come up with from a small 248 page book.

I would definately be interested in what you have compliled X
Butterfly

 

[Butterfly]

well, i'm more of a book guy, it may have just been the presentation or something.

I would highly recommend you listen to the authors testimony before reading the book - it just gives you a much better context.
Butterfly

 

[Willie T]

I would highly recommend you listen to the authors testimony before reading the book - it just gives you a much better context.
Butterfly

Butterfly has a sterling idea. And I would also like you to read part of the comments and questions I have gathered...….. But it has grown to almost 40 pages now.

 

[Willie T]

I would definately be interested in what you have compliled X
Butterfly

It's all yours.… but this forum won't even accept a tenth of it. I need someplace to mail it to.

 

[Willie T]

This is a tiny taste of what I have put together... maybe a 200th of all of it.

“I saw this movie with some moms from my small group and a couple of their kiddos. After the movie a man sitting in front of us stood and called out to the crowd that was leaving the theater. He asked for prayer for his daughter who was there who had a brain tumor. I honestly thought people were ignoring him and leaving as a few gathered and prayed over his little girl. As the prayer ended I turned and saw that the entire theatre had turned around and every person was laying hands on another all the way to this precious child. It was the most amazing thing I have ever witnessed. The movie was amazing but our ending in theater 15 was so full of His love.” -Angela

 

[Butterfly]

It's all yours.… but this forum won't even accept a tenth of it. I need someplace to mail it to.

I have an email address, but I am not too sure if my iPad Will let me open a file as I am not technically minded and have not got a clue !!!! Lol
Not sure if my email address is visible in my profile- I will have a look x

 

[Naomi25]

hmm. Having not read the book nor seen the movie i hesitate to comment there, imo God speaks to us all of the time but generally speaking we lack hearing? So this note could just be a literary device or something...i'm mostly curious why @Naomi25 is not a fan, and i'm wondering if the movie is close enough in intent to the book that i can just watch it?

I'm a little hesitant to answer this question, as 1: it seems I'm quite possibly the only non-fan here and might get steam-rollered. And 2: my conversations with you lead nowhere.
But it's a fair enough question, so I'll answer briefly. The Shack had, perhaps, honorable intentions: to try and give people a good answer to God allowing suffering. But in the process I think Young has distorted who God actually is. And that is not doing anyone any favors.
Paul Grimmond said in his review of the book, "Young is dead right to suggest that we need to get to know God in the midst of the hard questions. The problem is that he brings us face-to-face with a God who is not God at all. In his zeal to ‘free’ God from the chains of misunderstanding, Young has shackled God beyond recognition."
I agree with this. Young does a good job of walking through suffering, and for Christians with an already sound understanding of God, the Trinity and a sound knoweldge of scripture, then I think this work of fiction could be good. But if a new Christian were to read this book and takes the understanding of God from it, great harm could be done.
The character of God matters. Of course it matters! It has to matter, else we could be worshipping anyone. Who God has revealed Himself to be in scripture, is not who Young has portrayed. And that is a serious error.

 

[Willie T]

I'm a little hesitant to answer this question, as 1: it seems I'm quite possibly the only non-fan here and might get steam-rollered. And 2: my conversations with you lead nowhere.
But it's a fair enough question, so I'll answer briefly. The Shack had, perhaps, honorable intentions: to try and give people a good answer to God allowing suffering. But in the process I think Young has distorted who God actually is. And that is not doing anyone any favors.
Paul Grimmond said in his review of the book, "Young is dead right to suggest that we need to get to know God in the midst of the hard questions. The problem is that he brings us face-to-face with a God who is not God at all. In his zeal to ‘free’ God from the chains of misunderstanding, Young has shackled God beyond recognition."
I agree with this. Young does a good job of walking through suffering, and for Christians with an already sound understanding of God, the Trinity and a sound knoweldge of scripture, then I think this work of fiction could be good. But if a new Christian were to read this book and takes the understanding of God from it, great harm could be done.
The character of God matters. Of course it matters! It has to matter, else we could be worshipping anyone. Who God has revealed Himself to be in scripture, is not who Young has portrayed. And that is a serious error.

Focusing on just one part, what did you think of the cave scene?

 

[Willie T]

I have an email address, but I am not too sure if my iPad Will let me open a file as I am not technically minded and have not got a clue !!!! Lol
Not sure if my email address is visible in my profile- I will have a look x

Well, if you come up with a solution, I'll mail it to anywhere you say.

 

[Naomi25]

Focusing on just one part, what did you think of the cave scene?

Well, are we talking the cave scene with "Lady Wisdom" or later when Mack was led back to the cave to find Missy's body? I'm guessing the first.
I'd have to say...it feels good, intially. But again, when you try and test it's weight, it's not so stirling. First, Wisdom, whoever she is, places herself in the place of "judgement". This is all well and good in the role of story-telling, I suppose, but theres this subtle push in it all that says "God doesn't want to judge, he's loathe to judge, he hates it." Now...does God want everyone to come to salvation? Yes, the bible tells us this. But it also tells us that when the time comes, he will sit on his throne and judge the nations with a rod of iron. There is no hesitation on his behalf, only full conviction and absolute knowledge.
The scene makes me uncomfortable because it feels like Wisdom is, in a way, "excusing" sin. 'How can you blame them?' she asks 'Doesn't the brokeness go all the way back?' Then that leads to God, of course, being to blame. Now, of course I see the reasoning here, and they do, a bit down the track, make the point of mentioning the fact that as long as free will exists, so too does evil. But instead of pushing that point now, when they should, I think, instead Wisdom asks Mack to chose between sending one of his chilren to hell...the other to heaven...just as God would (presumably). This makes no sense! It's as if God plays "duck, duck, goose". There is no mention of salvation involved or any kind of will or plan. It's all just pot luck because God has to send some here, and some there. Only....is that what it is suggesting at all? Is it, in fact saying that he won't do that, it's illogical for him to do that, and that of course, when it comes to judgement, everyone will be saved?

Look...this is just my musings on the the film and book, and i recognize not everyone will share them. I also recognize that a lot of people love it, and that a lot of people have experienced real benefit from reading and watching it. And you know what...if it brings people closer to God...I'm Okay with that. All I'm praying for is that no one gets off the path of who God truly is along the way...that's all. And I suspect that all of us, Young included, would want the same thing.

 

[Willie T]

So you didn't see the initial and ongoing theme of Mack having to learn to forgive? That was what Papa started out telling him the whole weekend was about, was it not?

 

[Willie T]

Now, the "freewill" part. If the most vile creature that ever lived is confronted by God, is not His first statement going to be "You are forgiven.... do you want to accept my sacrifice for that?" Or is it going to be judgement based on the guy's past? We are not talking about any scene of judgement after death.... we are still in the cave, so to speak, and this man is standing in the same place Mack's kids were... all of them still living and fully able to make a decision if forgiven and offered Salvation during their life.

At that point in his walk, Mack agonized over judging his kids, but he would have instantly and happily sent the Ladykiller to Hell...…. even if the man wanted to "repent."

Remember, the book is not about doing The Revelation all over again. It is, as Papa said in the beginning, all about bringing healing to Mack.

 

[Butterfly]

Well, if you come up with a solution, I'll mail it to anywhere you say.

All sorted x

 

[Butterfly]

Focusing on just one part, what did you think of the cave scene?

I found this scene quite interesting to reflect on. I did not view it in the same way as Naomi - Mack wanted the murderer punished , as any of us would and does when we are wronged. All Mack could see was what the person had done wrong, yet wisdom saw and knew so much more. The truth is that each and every one of us has fallen short of who we should be and all have done wrong, all have sinned. When she asked him to trade places, that really stood out for me. How often do we sit on the judgment seat as if we are God himself - and how often do we sit on this seat as if we are so very perfect before God in our lives and ' look down ' on others because their sin just seems as if it deserves our ridicule. Sometimes we don't say anything outwardly, but inside we still look and judge.
We tend to place ' sins ' on platforms of least to worst - well I know I do, it's a subconscious thing that I was not really aware of , and for me goes back to a foundation of believing if you live an external good life you will be okay ( that's what I grew up believing )
Oh I still believe God will judge , but perhaps now I believe that all the wrong in all of us needs to separated and dealt with - with some it will happen in life as we allow the Holy Spirit to work - but I am still weighing up ' salvation for all ' as I equally grew up believing in ' hell ' .
Forgiveness is something we learn within the situations we find ourselves in - like Mack.
Was it in the cave scene that he is asked to choose between his children - think it is.
That really challenged me to consider that when we judge others who have wronged us the connection we have with them will perhaps determine how we proceed.
Well God has a connection with every single human being that has ever existed - and he knows each on - completely/ totally - so he starts from a totally different place when it comes to the ' judging them '
I think I will let God remain in the seat of judgment and endeavour to stop trying to do it for him X X
Butterfly

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, if you come up with a solution, I'll mail it to anywhere you say.

you could UL it to the cloud i guess?
Google Drive - Cloud Storage & File Backup for Photos, Docs & More

 

[Willie T]

Thank you Guys.
One thing I think we all tend to miss is that this is not the Bible, and it was never intended that we focused Bible-Birddogs would run here to get our Theology.

I have something from a blog that I wish more people than just Butterfly had asked to look at. This woman, Crystal, really seems to get the purpose of the book.

 

[Willie T]

you could UL it to the cloud i guess?
Google Drive - Cloud Storage & File Backup for Photos, Docs & More

I don't do "The Cloud." Sorry. It falls in the same category as FB and Ancestory.com, to me..... and I avoid them all.