Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

[Waiting on him]

The judgment seat of Christ is for believers, not unbelievers, who will be judged at the Great White Throne; if one follows thorough references to the judgment seat of Christ and the Great White Throne respectively, it will show that the contexts are different.

Ok, I’m not referring to the GWT, Two different events. Would you say the judgement seat of Christ is also the mercy seat?

 

[farouk]

Ok, I’m not referring to the GWT, Two different events. Would you say the judgement seat of Christ is also the mercy seat?

Interesting question; I do think that the answer to the question about the passage would be found in the words 'good or bad' (2 Corinthians 5.10), which refer to the quality of the service. It's not sin in view there at all, so mercy seat?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Of course...

These are KJV if you like I can do NASB
Matthew 16:27 - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Luke 12:33-34 - Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

Matthew 25:21 - His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

1 Corinthians 3:8 - Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 - Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Matthew 6:20-21 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

I just printed this to look at in bed. BTW, I like how you think, and am also interested in more advanced thinking. I just need backup.

good night.

 

[Grailhunter]

I just printed this to look at in bed. BTW, I like how you think, and am also interested in more advanced thinking. I just need backup.

good night.

Good night....

 

[farouk]

It’s interesting, all the talk about the laborers brought into the vineyard and who’s getting what and what’s due, and where the harder workers are going, and how they should receive special consideration, is all a bunch of pelican hockey. The point is Christ is all about equality it’s not like this system where it’s all performance based.

@Waiting on him You're right about the equality aspect; although it can also be looked at from different angles.

 

[Waiting on him]

So I say I disagree,

Luke 1:48,51-52 KJV
[48] For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. [51] He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. [52] He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

Nothing to do with levels of heaven.
Tecarta Bible

 

[Grailhunter]

Luke 1:48,51-52 KJV
[48] For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. [51] He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. [52] He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.


Tecarta Bible

Hey, great scripture but in regard to what I said about levels of reward, I am not sure if it is relevant.

 

[farouk]

Luke 1:48,51-52 KJV
[48] For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. [51] He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. [52] He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.

Nothing to do with levels of heaven.
Tecarta Bible

Exactly. There are also rewards for the faithful, which is of course a different aspect.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There are two main reasons why I do not believe that the phrase Water and Spirit can refer to baptism. Firstly, if baptism is intended by this phrase then that ordinance is absolutely necessary for salvation. ‘Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’.

In John 3 Jesus speaks of one birth that contains two elements; water and Spirit. The role of water is water baptism as can be seen a few verses later, John 3:22-23. The role of the Spirit is His word that He authored. The word saves (James 1:21) in that it instructs men on how to be saved (water baptism). Those that obey those instructions gain the promise of salvation are said to have been "born again..by the word of God" 1 Peter 1:23; "begotten through the gospel" 1 Corinthians 4:15; begat with the word James 1:18. The Bible being its own best commentary, we can see these two elements in other 'born again' verses:

John 3:5------------------Spirit+++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Corinthians 12:13------SPirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Titus 3:5----------------Holy Ghost++++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>saved
Ephesians 5:26-----------the word++++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>cleansed

Since there is just one way to be born again/saved/cleansed/enter the kingdom/body, no alternatives, then all these verses must be expressing the exact same idea meaning "water" is equivalent to "baptized" which is equivalent to 'laver of water"

Water baptism has been commanded by God and for that reason alone makes it a necessity. One must do the will of the Father to enter the kingdom Matthew 7:21.

Matthew 7:21----------doeth the will of My Father>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter into the kingdom
John 3:5---------------born of water and Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom of God

Again, there is just one way to be saved/enter the kingdom, no alternatives, therefore being water baptized (born of water and Spirit) is equivalent to doing the will of God in submitting to God's command to be water baptized.

Pharisees as Nicodemus had not been born again having rejected the baptism of John Luke 7:30 cf John 3:22-23 cf Mark 1:4. Therefore if one had not been baptized/born again, then that was his own fault and culpability for rejecting being baptized. Yet if John 3:5 refers to baptism with the Holy Spirit as some claim, then Nicodemus and others cannot be held accountable for not being born again for being baptized with the HS was out of their control. Since Jesus Christ is the One Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11) it would be Jesus' culpability for not having baptized Nicodemus and others with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hey, great scripture but in regard to what I said about levels of reward, I am not sure if it is relevant.

Rather, when you are invited, go and take the lowest place so that when the host comes to you he may say, 'My friend, move up to a higher position.' Then you will enjoy the esteem of your companions at the table.

For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

[Waiting on him]

Exactly. There are also rewards for the faithful, which is of course a different aspect.

I accidentally put your post there. I edited it

 

[farouk]

I accidentally put your post there. I edited it

Okay thanks...

 

[Waiting on him]

Hey, great scripture but in regard to what I said about levels of reward, I am not sure if it is relevant.

What your saying sounds to me like the disgruntled laborers I....deserve.....more!

 

[Waiting on him]

In John 3 Jesus speaks of one birth that contains two elements; water and Spirit. The role of water is water baptism as can be seen a few verses later, John 3:22-23. The role of the Spirit is His word that He authored. The word saves (James 1:21) in that it instructs men on how to be saved (water baptism). Those that obey those instructions gain the promise of salvation are said to have been "born again..by the word of God" 1 Peter 1:23; "begotten through the gospel" 1 Corinthians 4:15; begat with the word James 1:18. The Bible being its own best commentary, we can see these two elements in other 'born again' verses:

John 3:5------------------Spirit+++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Corinthians 12:13------SPirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Titus 3:5----------------Holy Ghost++++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>saved
Ephesians 5:26-----------the word++++++++laver of water>>>>>>>>>cleansed

Since there is just one way to be born again/saved/cleansed/enter the kingdom/body, no alternatives, then all these verses must be expressing the exact same idea meaning "water" is equivalent to "baptized" which is equivalent to 'laver of water"

Water baptism has been commanded by God and for that reason alone makes it a necessity. One must do the will of the Father to enter the kingdom Matthew 7:21.

Matthew 7:21----------doeth the will of My Father>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter into the kingdom
John 3:5---------------born of water and Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom of God

Again, there is just one way to be saved/enter the kingdom, no alternatives, therefore being water baptized (born of water and Spirit) is equivalent to doing the will of God in submitting to God's command to be water baptized.

Pharisees as Nicodemus had not been born again having rejected the baptism of John Luke 7:30 cf John 3:22-23 cf Mark 1:4. Therefore if one had not been baptized/born again, then that was his own fault and culpability for rejecting being baptized. Yet if John 3:5 refers to baptism with the Holy Spirit as some claim, then Nicodemus and others cannot be held accountable for not being born again for being baptized with the HS was out of their control. Since Jesus Christ is the One Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11) it would be Jesus' culpability for not having baptized Nicodemus and others with the Holy Spirit.

Bingo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There are also rewards for the faithful,

Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Depends what reward we are seeking in His Name?? Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord : and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

—Mark 4:7-8 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. [8] And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

Philippians 2:4-5 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

 

[farouk]

Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.

Matthew 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Depends what reward we are seeking in His Name?? Psalm 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord : and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

—Mark 4:7-8 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. [8] And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

Philippians 2:4-5 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.

1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

@VictoryinJesus How blessed it is in simplicity to obey and follow the Lord!

 

[Grailhunter]

What your saying sounds to me like the disgruntled laborers I....deserve.....more!

May we get what we want! May we get what we need! But may we never get what we deserve!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus How blessed it is in simplicity to obey and follow the Lord!

Forgot and Left out: 2 Corinthians 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

...goodnight.

 

[farouk]

Forgot and Left out: 2 Corinthians 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

...goodnight.

Good verse! Have a nice night; and God bless your family.

 

[jshiii]

In another thread, the subject of water baptism has intervened into the subject of the thread, and threatens to divert (The Hope Of The World). This subject can be a contentious one, but I hope it can be approached with love on all sides.

On the side of the necessity for water baptism for salvation, certain verses were quoted in that thread by a participant, which could provide a starting point.

John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21

Do you really want me to get in this debate? lol After years of debating this with my brother, who is a Pastor? Oh my, not tonight! I may get back with you after I catch some speckled trout tomorrow. Thanks for asking the question