Israel is the Church

[Dave L]

Zola was a Jew who became a born again believer (evangelical christianity) lead by the indwelling Holy Spirit so he interprets the Bible scriptures literally as they are written, within the context and doesn't spiritualize Israel or transpose other meanings on to verses.

But the Pharisees did this too and look where it got them. They killed Jesus over it.

 

[Dave L]

Give us these scriptures please which you are misrepresenting....thanks.

Paul says Jesus is Abraham's seed, not the unbelieving Jews Galatians 3:16. Matthew's use of Hosea reveals that Jesus IS Israel.

“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, And called my son out of Egypt.” (Hosea 11:1)

“Then he [Joseph] got up, took the child and his mother during the night, and went to Egypt. He stayed there until Herod died. In this way what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet was fulfilled: “I called my Son out of Egypt.”” (Matthew 2:14–15)

When Jesus says that he is the true vine in John 15, he is making an explicit connection to Israel being called a failed vine in Isaiah 5.

 

[Dave L]

Zola is a saved Jew a born again follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not surprised that would send a chill down your spine, with all the godly love you have for Jews and all.

Jews = religion = he is either a Jew = or a Christian.

 

[Dave L]

Jesus was talking about His disciples about the true followers in John 15 , He was contrasting true followers and those in name only who do not produce good fruit because they are not connected to the Vine ( Him) . In order to produce good fruit the real followers of Jesus are connected to HIM who is the Vine & we are the branches, & it is the Holy Spirit in us from being born again that produces the good fruit. Jesus says the branches that are not connected to the Vine ( Jesus) will be burned and thrown away.

He was not referring to Israel.

The illustration is meaningless if not.

 

[Dave L]

I do study the BIBLE by my self. I came across that website for the First time today.
I gave you scripture and you cannot rebut it. Same old story by the ones who push the false teachings. But guess what , following & pushing false teachings are a symptom of a much bigger spiritual problem.

Please point out the scripture so I can acknowledge weather I answered or not.

 

[tzcho2]

If you are a follower of the heretic Kazarian Jew and Zionist, then God help you. This Zola Levitt and his ministries even go so far as to say Jesus was an Israeli..really, is he joking..he is peddling trash. The political State of Israel is the most vile and hateful country in the Middle East. I would reconsider who you choose as a spiritual mentor. Just read the scriptures and allow the spirit of God guide you to the answers, in his time.
Bless you,
APAK

Jesus is a Jew and Jesus is an Israeli--the Bible scripture reveals this truth.

 

[tzcho2]

The illustration is meaningless if not.

Quite predictable , and hilarious! you reject EVERY scripture anyone gives to you and points out Your ERROR.
As I said , You are not interested in truth only promoting anti-Semitism through Replacement Theology.

 

[tzcho2]

Please point out the scripture so I can acknowledge weather I answered or not.

Biblical exegesis points out your error, so you continue to reject it.

 

[Dave L]

Biblical exegesis points out your error, so you continue to reject it.

You need to stop accusing me of things you will not furnish proof for.

 

[Dave L]

Quite predictable , and hilarious! you reject EVERY scripture anyone gives to you and points out Your ERROR.
As I said , You are not interested in truth only promoting anti-Semitism through Replacement Theology.

Study Jewish history in the bible this afternoon and get back with me.

 

[amadeus]

Totally nonsensical question.
I hope one day your ears are opened & then your heart will be changed, then you will understand Biblical Christianity, the scriptures, & not just liberal Christianity which really is not.

 

[amadeus]

When you are ready to discuss the passage rather than me, let me know.

I only asked questions which in themselves expressed where I am. Sorry if you unnecessarily took offense. I cannot be where you are simply because you disagree with where I am. Only God gives any real increase!

 

[prism]

What do you think it means. Let's start here.

I gave you my answer back in post #291. Obviously you believe 'Israel' in Gal 6:16 is referring to Jesus, I believe it is referring to the believing descendants of 'Abraham' ->'Isaac'->'Jacob' and some others believe the term 'Israel' is referring to both believing Gentiles and Jews. The problem with the latter view is the redundancy created with the word 'them'.
So we have squabbled over this long enough.

 

[prism]

I only asked questions which in themselves expressed where I am. Sorry if you unnecessarily took offense. I cannot be where you are simply because you disagree with where I am. Only God gives any real increase!

As I said, I'd rather discuss the passage rather than impugn another person's 'spirituality'. When you are ready to discuss the actual passage, let me know.

 

[Dave L]

I gave you my answer back in post #291. Obviously you believe 'Israel' in Gal 6:16 is referring to Jesus, I believe it is referring to the believing descendants of 'Abraham' ->'Isaac'->'Jacob' and some others believe the term 'Israel' is referring to both believing Gentiles and Jews. The problem with the latter view is the redundancy created with the word 'them'.
So we have squabbled over this long enough.

What I believe is the only Israel of God is Christ and believers. So this solves it for me. Why are those calling themselves Israel not Israel? Because when Jesus abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew or Physical Israelite.

 

[prism]

What I believe is the only Israel of God is Christ and believers.

Is that what you said here?

Jesus is the seed that came through Isaac. Paul I.D.s Jesus as THE seed. The rest are peripheral and served him as the chaff serves the wheat.

Why are those calling themselves Israel not Israel? Because when Jesus abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew or Physical Israelit

I think I gave you this quote before...

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
(Jer 31:35-37)

The moon and stars are still above and the heavens haven't been measured and there is still Israel as a nation of people which God has not completely cast off.

 

[amadeus]

As I said, I'd rather discuss the passage rather than impugn another person's 'spirituality'. When you are ready to discuss the actual passage, let me know.

What are you going to say that you have not already and what am I going to say that will change anything? Do you presume that you are never wrong? I certainly make no such presumption about myself. Each of us believes we are correct or we would already be changed if we were sincere AND we were able. Can man change himself? Or is what he does simply redirect and/or open himself up and then God makes the change?

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour." I Cor 3:6-8

 

[tzcho2]

Is that what you said here?
I think I gave you this quote before...

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
(Jer 31:35-37)

The moon and stars are still above and the heavens haven't been measured and there is still Israel as a nation of people which God has not completely cast off.

Dave L's been given this Jeremiah 31 scripture both by you and by me several times, but Dave simply ignores EVEN God's declarations of His promises to Israel in Jeremiah because it doesn't fit into Dave's unbiblical replacement theology doctrine. Simply speaking Jews or the Nation of Israel have no right to exist in Dave's mind & he is trying to justify that belief by twisting scriptures.
I've learned in the past , we cannot reason with those that did not reach their conclusions through the process of Reason in the first place.

 

[Enoch111]

Scratch the christian veneer of these teachers of replacement theology and you find real haters of the Jews--that is what drives their false theology.

Replacement Theology began in the Catholic church, and continued within the Protestant churches of the Reformation.

The RCC taught hatred for the Jews and tried to forcibly convert them to Christianity. Many pretended to become Christians, but retained their Jewish identity and beliefs. Many were persecute and slaughtered. And Martin Luther made no secret of his hatred for the Jews.

The Nazis took their lessons from Luther, and the Roman Catholic Church was an accessory to the crimes of the Nazis, as well as assisting them to escape to South America. The Dutch Calvinists were no better when it came to the treatment of the Jews.

But Replacement Theology is another BOGUS theology held by Reformed churches. Some Christians simply cannot accept the FACT that while God has an eternal plan for the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body), He also has an eternal plan for redeemed and restored Israel on earth AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. Until then there no difference between Jew and Gentile in God's eyes. Yet, by His grace, He has preserved the modern secular nation-state of Israel, even though the majority of Jews within Israel are enemies of Christ (or at best indifferent to Him).

At the same time we can thank God that many former unbelieving Jews have become Messianic Jews by believing on Yeshua ha Mashiach (Jesus the Christ). However, I do not believe that they are obeying Christ by isolating themselves from Gentile Christians, and attempting to revive Moses at the same time. They are facing the dilemma of the Hebrew Christians addressed in the epistle to the Hebrews.

 

[tzcho2]

Replacement Theology began in the Catholic church, and continued within the Protestant churches of the Reformation.

The RCC taught hatred for the Jews and tried to forcibly convert them to Christianity. Many pretended to become Christians, but retained their Jewish identity and beliefs. Many were persecute and slaughtered. And Martin Luther made no secret of his hatred for the Jews.

The Nazis took their lessons from Luther, and the Roman Catholic Church was an accessory to the crimes of the Nazis, as well as assisting them to escape to South America. The Dutch Calvinists were no better when it came to the treatment of the Jews.

But Replacement Theology is another BOGUS theology held by Reformed churches. Some Christians simply cannot accept the FACT that while God has an eternal plan for the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body), He also has an eternal plan for redeemed and restored Israel on earth AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. Until then there no difference between Jew and Gentile in God's eyes. Yet, by His grace, He has preserved the modern secular nation-state of Israel, even though the majority of Jews within Israel are enemies of Christ (or at best indifferent to Him).

At the same time we can thank God that many former unbelieving Jews have become Messianic Jews by believing on Yeshua ha Mashiach (Jesus the Christ). However, I do not believe that they are obeying Christ by isolating themselves from Gentile Christians, and attempting to revive Moses at the same time. They are facing the dilemma of the Hebrew Christians addressed in the epistle to the Hebrews.

Yes and there are many Jews just become a part of some church somewhere that we don't even know their Jewish heritage or they might go to Seminary & become Pastors, one who reads the O.T. in the original Hebrew. The nation of Israel is an amazing testament to God's lovingkindness, His righteous patient character, to His Protection, Omniscience, Power & Faithfulness , how Israel has grown and blossomed in such a short time. How God watches over the land of Israel is just a blessing to see for any awake Christian, and how God has blessed all races through the Jews by Jesus our Lord of course, but also by their Jewish high tech remarkable inventions. How those who hate Jews & are anti-zionist miss out on seeing the Bible prophesies taking shape & the Biblical unfolding of God's Plan & Purposes. Glory to God!