It Hurts So Much

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Fire-7

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I know that I will get a lot of flack for this. But I know I won't get much sleep tonight until I get this off my chest.

I can't explain the situation detail for detail. But I posted a couple months ago about a christian brother who I had a crush on, in the "christian club." I got over him, to a degree, when a few weeks ago, I ran into this other brother from the group, as I was walking out of the library of the college, on my way home.

It was him and a couple of others just talking. This brother had caught my attention earlier, because of his seriousness about the faith. There was a maturity about him that I admired. And here I was running into him. We discussed some random things and ended up on the subject of the H-ly Spirit. Then he dropped the bomb--almost out of nowhere, that he used to be a homosexual...

To make a long story short, we developed a report, and I have been visiting his church over the past couple of weeks. We have stayed up late nights on the phone. He was incredibly warm to me to begin with. I was surprised that he remembered my name after the first time meeting me--when it was in the midst of such a large group, and spoke to me as he was driving down the road, and I couldn't even remember his. He would always speak to me, and I could fel the love coming from him. We made such a wonderful connection that day though. He shared his testimony that night over the phone, and it's just about identical to mine. So, he was trying to be a witness to me that I can be "delivered" from homosexuality.

He would tell me he loved me often, which just felt amazing. It felt pure. But eventually, I began to develop feelings for him, and eventually, he stopped tellin me he loved me. I expressed to him how important it was to hear it coming from him and how much it meant to me. But the more I stressed it, the less he expressed it. He felt that our relationship was becoming impure. I would drop little hints here and there, and we almost started borderline flirting over the phone. And he started calling less and less. The other night, I dropped a bomb on him when I told him how attracted I was to him and how beautiful I thought he was. He responded harshly and told me that he wouldn't tolerate scuh convesation, and that we could no longer talk over the phone after dark. I told him that I didn't understand how he could be so uptight, but that he, out of all people, should understand me. He responded that he does understand, but that he is very serious about his salvation and sanctification.

That was the last time he texted me in about 2 or 3 days, while I have called his phone, and sent him several long messages pouring my heart out. And today, I apologized, repented, and explained to him how sorry I am and how much I appreciate his friendship. But I've gotten no response at all. It has gone from us texting and talking on the phone almost every hour on the hour, in the beginning, to us not talking at all.

I just think to myself that this is another perfectly good relationship that I have ruined! I feel that I am toxic. Every single relationship or friendship that I have, I make an art out of messing it up! I always come off as too desperate. But this was one relationship that I thought would last. I only prove to myself over and over again that I am horrible at relating to people. But this particular one has reinforced and magnified all of my feelings of isolation, betrayal, rejection, and abandonement. I feel that he has done all of it, because he knws how I feel about thee things. Out of all people, he was supposed to understand me. I am confused and at a loss for thoughts as to how he could turn such a cold shoulder toward me after everything we have shared in such a short amount of time. He has fed me and given me the shoes off of his feet. But now, I can't help but feel that he hates me.
 

rockytopva

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If I may quote a few lines from Plato's Republic...

Yes. It follows, therefore, that the good is not the cause of all things, but of the good only? Assuredly. Then God, if he be good, is not the author of all things, as the many assert, but he is the cause of a few things only, and not of most things that occur to men. For few are the goods of human life, and many are the evils, and the good is to be attributed to God alone; of the evils the causes are to be sought elsewhere, and not in him.


God is not the author of the human passions you seek and I therefore would leave them alone. And to bring the bible into this...

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. - 1 John 2:17

The passions and the lusts of this world are only a temporal thing... So why seek them? Seek that which is in God and you will find that which is good. Eternally good!
 
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martinlawrencescott

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I agree with Rocky. God is the only being in existence that can fulfill the desire you have in your heart. The answer you are looking for will come from Him alone. People will fail us every time when we try to make God's of men, which is what we are doing when we try to fulfill our desires by any means except with God Himself. Delight in the lord and seek Him in His word. You don't have to fear God, the loving words you long for are His to give.

From your testimony it seems that you are attracted to good people who desire faithfulness, and those whose hearts belong to God, and whose love is pure. You desire some of the best things, but you require them from the source of love who is God. You just have to trust that God is willing to meet those needs, to meet you as close and loving and intimately as any one person on earth could ever do so. God is not going to hold a hand of judgment and condemnation over those who truly seek his heart. No one else can fulfill your heart's desire.

You can trust God with your heart which can be related to a precious gem. Your heart is seen as precious to God because he desires it like someone who was lost that He has been searching for, for a long time. Your precious heart that the rest of the world will only trample belongs to God who has made good plans for you in order for you to enjoy life and enjoy your future.
 

Angelina

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Hi F7!

I just think to myself that this is another perfectly good relationship that I have ruined! I feel that I am toxic. Every single relationship or friendship that I have, I make an art out of messing it up! I always come off as too desperate. But this was one relationship that I thought would last. I only prove to myself over and over again that I am horrible at relating to people. But this particular one has reinforced and magnified all of my feelings of isolation, betrayal, rejection, and abandonement. I feel that he has done all of it, because he knws how I feel about thee things. Out of all people, he was supposed to understand me. I am confused and at a loss for thoughts as to how he could turn such a cold shoulder toward me after everything we have shared in such a short amount of time. He has fed me and given me the shoes off of his feet. But now, I can't help but feel that he hates me.

I am sorry to hear that honey....:( but the friendship he had with you, was [on his part] to aide you in being set free through the love of Jesus, as he had been. He knows that it is an area that he must be careful in and I am totally convinced that he was not intending you to view him in a romantic way but as a brother who has experience in this area due to his past background. I do not believe that he hates you at all but that he can see, it would be impossible to help you at this stage, if you are not at the point of wanting to be delivered [based on your feelings toward him]. No...you are not toxic nor are you horrible at relating to people. You just don't realize the penalty that Jesus paid on our behalf so that we can be free indeed... 1 Corinthians 6:18-20 ...he does, and is not willing to compromise that for anything...

I truly hope in your search for a true friend and love that lasts forever, you will find what he has found in our Lord and Savior...Jesus our redeemer.:) because truly, that is where he is coming from..."the anchor to his soul."

Bless you!
 

Fire-7

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It's amazing to me how I can be around him now, for hours, and he doesn't even acknowledge my presence. I really am having a hard time believing that he could be so cruel--though not overtly... after all I have explained to him. Just what his silence is doing to me, I don't know if he understands or if he is just doing it deliberately. I wish I could ignore it, but I can't stop thinking about the way he's responding.
 

calbhach

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Hi Fire-7. I'm really sorry to hear how things are turning out. :( I hope things begin turning around for you.

Of course, I don't know for sure what's going on right now, but I have the distinct feeling that maybe he's just scared of getting involved and being drawn back into something he worked so hard to get out of before? Fear does strange things to people. Maybe you should just approach him about it, and ask him? The Bible tells us to confront those who sin again us, and talk to them about what they've done. Here are a few passages of scripture which I hope will help you out. :)

Matthew 18:15-17 - If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Colossians 3:13 - Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

Luke 17:3 - Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

Ephesians 4:31-32 - Let all bitterness and wrath and anger andclamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kindto one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christforgave you.

Also, maybe you should try a bible study with women? I know this might seem kind of awkward at first, but if a Bible study with other men is causing you to have feelings for another man, and causing sin in your life, maybe you should try something else for a while? :) We're told by the Bible to remove anything from our lives which causes us to sin.

Mark 9:43-47- 43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell...

I hope this helps you. ^^

God bless you. I'm praying for you! ^__^

-Calbhach
 

aspen

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The best way to love him is to allow him to follow God in the manner he believes is right. It is nature to try to possess the people we love, but it always leads to more pain.
 

discipleHelovestoo

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two things jump out at me as i read your post:

-you're having trouble recognizing the Love that GOD has FOR YOU
-you're having trouble recognizing the Love of God IN you FOR OTHERS as it wells up towards someone God wants to minister to THROUGH you


i wish i knew a better way to say this, but it seems to me that your focus is on you. everybody suffers from this to some degree (including me), so please don't be condemned.

"He would tell me he loved me often, which just felt amazing. It felt pure. But eventually, I began to develop feelings for him..."

what you're really saying is that you love the way he made you feel - you love you - see where the emphasis is? your love for him is conditional - based on your perception of his love for you.

what you need is a revelation of how much God unconditionally loves YOU - this will free you from looking for love from others so that you can be effective in showing them GOD'S Love for them - and some people will LOVE you for that :D - and some people will HATE you for that - but you won't really care because you'll know that GOD loves you - unconditionally!

so how do you make this adjustment in perspective? how do you find out how much God really does love you? by changing your focus from you to God. if you look at every interaction with other people as an opportunity to show them how much God loves them, (see where the emphasis is now?) you will begin to see how much He loves YOU; and this comes through thought-by-thought fellowship with Him

and He DOES love you - after all, He has faith in you; He chose you!

GLY!!!

 

rockytopva

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People dependency is not good! Three drugs we humans are addicted to...

1. Appreciation
2. Attention
3. Approval



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLqafYWE4A0
 

WhiteKnuckle

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two things jump out at me as i read your post:

-you're having trouble recognizing the Love that GOD has FOR YOU
-you're having trouble recognizing the Love of God IN you FOR OTHERS as it wells up towards someone God wants to minister to THROUGH you


i wish i knew a better way to say this, but it seems to me that your focus is on you. everybody suffers from this to some degree (including me), so please don't be condemned.

"He would tell me he loved me often, which just felt amazing. It felt pure. But eventually, I began to develop feelings for him..."

what you're really saying is that you love the way he made you feel - you love you - see where the emphasis is? your love for him is conditional - based on your perception of his love for you.

what you need is a revelation of how much God unconditionally loves YOU - this will free you from looking for love from others so that you can be effective in showing them GOD'S Love for them - and some people will LOVE you for that :D - and some people will HATE you for that - but you won't really care because you'll know that GOD loves you - unconditionally!

so how do you make this adjustment in perspective? how do you find out how much God really does love you? by changing your focus from you to God. if you look at every interaction with other people as an opportunity to show them how much God loves them, (see where the emphasis is now?) you will begin to see how much He loves YOU; and this comes through thought-by-thought fellowship with Him

and He DOES love you - after all, He has faith in you; He chose you!

GLY!!!


I think the problem is that Fire-7 is gay and has a crush on this guy.
 

Disciple

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He needs room to grow, i know if i was helping someone be delivered from something like this and they came onto me as you did him, i would definatly do the exact same thing he did to you. the bible says 'to avoid those that cause divisions contrary to the doctrine of Christ, that they may be ashamed of their deeds and repent.' and i feel that is what he did.. not trying to be harsh just being sincere that i think he was right in what he did, not that you are wrong but hes giving you a little tough love which is way better than love that is hidden. both of you need room to grow, and i agree with angelina, join a group with women,
love ya bro.
 

pilgrimjo

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You sound like you are overly attached to this relationship. And as others have indicated here-- it seems your feelings about the situation are your main focus. You need to refocus and, as others have said, here, realize that God loves you. Basically instead of giving your heart and thoughts to this man you need to give them to God.

"Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you." (Philippians 4:8-9)




A choice has to be made. Your friend has struggled with homosexuality and is trying to chose the better way. If you truly love him in Agape (that is Christian love) you have to deny your own feelings and yearnings for him and seek the best for him. In letting go you will be letting God work in both of you for His glory.

I know that resisting yearning for this relationship and changing your heart about him can be easier said than done..but if you pray for the Lord's mercy, and trust the Holy Spirit to fill you with God's love and peace clarity will come and you will gain strength. God's grace is sufficient for you. God has a plan for your well being.

[sup]"[/sup] For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. " (Jeremiah 29:11) :)
 

Fire-7

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Thank you all for your advice.

Though I can give him the benefit of the doubt about the amount of time we spent on the phone. He is a person who normally spends long periods of time on the phone talking to people . He told me how when he was younger, he used to get cursed out for running up his mother's phone bill. He's just a person who has a lot to say. As I said, he's very mature. I understand he used to hang around a lot of old people, which is probably why he acts twice his age.

But I think that both of our motives were innocent in the beginning. I wasn't thinking or feeling anything sexual when we made contact... maybe until he told me about his initiation into homosexuality; that was kind of stimulating in a bizzare way... but other than that, I only started really feeling emotionally attached to him the more I hung around him and experienced his personality...although I did have some subtle attraction to him before our encounter that day.

To be clear, I didn't go into this relationship expecting romance. The romance part came later. And it is the other way around: he already had a couple of close christian male friends who had shared in his struggles and overcome with him... who are just as spiritual as he is. So, I was not encouraging him in anything other than being a mentor to me. It was him who was trying to encourage me.

But he did not initially realize that this was still such a part of me. I think that because I was a part of the christian club, in addition to some of the things I had said in the meetings, he was under the impression that I was "delivered", or either me confessing my struggle to him had delivered me (which I believe the case to be because of some things that were said...). He may have been a little presumtuous in thinking that his exposing my hidden "sin" had delievered me. But I later let him know that it was not something I felt I needed to give up.
 

aspen

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Thank you all for your advice.

Though I can give him the benefit of the doubt about the amount of time we spent on the phone. He is a person who normally spends long periods of time on the phone talking to people . He told me how when he was younger, he used to get cursed out for running up his mother's phone bill. He's just a person who has a lot to say. As I said, he's very mature. I understand he used to hang around a lot of old people, which is probably why he acts twice his age.

But I think that both of our motives were innocent in the beginning. I wasn't thinking or feeling anything sexual when we made contact... maybe until he told me about his initiation into homosexuality; that was kind of stimulating in a bizzare way... but other than that, I only started really feeling emotionally attached to him the more I hung around him and experienced his personality...although I did have some subtle attraction to him before our encounter that day.

To be clear, I didn't go into this relationship expecting romance. The romance part came later. And it is the other way around: he already had a couple of close christian male friends who had shared in his struggles and overcome with him... who are just as spiritual as he is. So, I was not encouraging him in anything other than being a mentor to me. It was him who was trying to encourage me.

But he did not initially realize that this was still such a part of me. I think that because I was a part of the christian club, in addition to some of the things I had said in the meetings, he was under the impression that I was "delivered", or either me confessing my struggle to him had delivered me (which I believe the case to be because of some things that were said...). He may have been a little presumtuous in thinking that his exposing my hidden "sin" had delievered me. But I later let him know that it was not something I felt I needed to give up.

No offense, but I do not think you get it.....

Your friend is like a recovering alcoholic......you are like a friend who still drinks and keeps asking him to come down to the bar - then gets hurt when he declines.

Except. alcohols are fighting for their lives - your friend is fighting for his soul.
 

Comm.Arnold

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I put up with women like you all the time, so self centered you can't understand the word no. Also the way you lust for his presence is incredibly unchristian. I really have to agree with Solomon in Ecclesiastes 7:28 "while I was still searching but not finding I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all" All the woman he has seen in his life Princesses queens well bred women from all over the world and he does not consider any of them upright.
 

Angelina

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I think the problem is that Fire-7 is gay and has a crush on this guy.

I put up with women like you all the time, so self centered you can't understand the word no. Also the way you lust for his presence is incredibly unchristian. I really have to agree with Solomon in Ecclesiastes 7:28 "while I was still searching but not finding I found one upright man among a thousand but not one upright woman among them all" All the woman he has seen in his life Princesses queens well bred women from all over the world and he does not consider any of them upright.

Comm.Arnold, who are you referring to in this post? :huh: Fire 7 is a man, not a woman. If you have not read the OP then I encourage to do so, so that we are all on the same page.


Blessings and have a great day!
Angelina
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discipleHelovestoo

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But he did not initially realize that this was still such a part of me.

This isn't about homosexuality, it is about faith - believing God. You can believe God in spite of what you mind, body, emotions, experience, and the world says about you - this is the key to salvation - not only for the eternity after your physical body dies, but also for this life.

Brother, I don't think you realize how serious this attitude is; if you are a new creature in Christ, then homosexuality is not a part of you - period.

Do you understand that Romans 1:27 is speaking about male homosexuality? Do you understand that Leviticus 20:13 is speaking about male homosexuality? Do you understand that Jesus was in no way homosexual? Are you reborn in Him - a 'little Christ' - a Christian? If you have seen in God's word that He strongly warns us to not embrace this concept of homosexuality, then you have judged Him to be wrong by this statement and your overall attitude about this abomination to God. You are claiming something that is clearly not Christ-like; you are saying that you are not a new creature in Christ.

This is extremely dangerous for you, because it will stop your faith cold. willful, purposeful unbelief in one area of your life will affect the effectiveness of your faith in all areas of your life. You are opening the door to your life to the devil, and he will not spare.

Faith is believing what God says is true in spite of all other reports - in spite of what your feelings, thoughts, experience, your body, the world, etc. is saying. You will not advance in the blessings God has already given you if you do not believe Him to be absolutely right and true about everything.

When you hear and understand a truth in God's word, you will react in one of only two ways:

1. you will humble yourself and repent (change your thinking), or

2. you will harden yourself and resist.

decision #1 will bring you up; decision # 2 will bring you down

The first step to change is to agree with God in spite of all other reports - are you willing to do this? If not, no one can help you, and you are on a downward spiral that will increase in speed every time you harden yourself against the wisdom of the God who loves you so much.

so what is your decision Brother? Will you judge God's word to be true and count everything else to be a lie?
 

HammerStone

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Fire-7, I was pretty happy when this thread hadn't really gone into the homosexuality discussion, so I want to totally put that aside. This post is not intended to be combative and so please don't take the tone that way if I mess up and don't convey what I am trying to say correctly. I'm speaking to you in the manner that I'd speak to any of my friends.

I just think to myself that this is another perfectly good relationship that I have ruined! I feel that I am toxic. Every single relationship or friendship that I have, I make an art out of messing it up! I always come off as too desperate. But this was one relationship that I thought would last. I only prove to myself over and over again that I am horrible at relating to people. But this particular one has reinforced and magnified all of my feelings of isolation, betrayal, rejection, and abandonement. I feel that he has done all of it, because he knws how I feel about thee things. Out of all people, he was supposed to understand me. I am confused and at a loss for thoughts as to how he could turn such a cold shoulder toward me after everything we have shared in such a short amount of time. He has fed me and given me the shoes off of his feet. But now, I can't help but feel that he hates me.

I think you've got to analyze (that sounds so statistical, right?) what you want out of a relationship. It sounds like you are very much confused about that.

See us guys have a lot on our plates. Society wants to portray the world as a men-dominated culture - which is partially true in some respects - but just like the ladies, we've had this hyper-masculine-muscular-provider-fix-everything-role to live. People don't connect much anymore, and that means some difficult changes for us in a world that demands that role. See the thing is, we have these phone conversations, forum conversations, Facebook conversations, etc. We just never really connect with them. I mean you can talk to the person without having the benefit of facial language, body language, and even the exact tone of his or her voice. Sometimes that lets us pretend things.

With you showing up here - specifically here - and then explaining a relationship like this, I think you are in the very least deeply conflicted about how you feel. I think your interpretation of your feelings is based on confusion. I won't play Dr. Phil or some Psychiatrist, but you probably know what I am saying better than I do right here. See the thing is - and this goes for heterosexual or any relationship - what you get out of a relationship is ultimately based on the other person. Our natural desire is self-absorption. This goes back to Satan himself who wanted God's throne. This continues on through Adam and Eve who both wanted the knowledge.

The Christian key, is that we die to self. We live for Jesus. It means putting aside desires, whatever they may be.

But back to relationships. I got pretty ticked at my wife the other night. It culminated in me dropping a bowl I used into a pot in the sink to wash and chipping the bowl. She picked out our stuff, and is very happy with it because it's our stuff. The bowls chip like crazy, but that's not relevant because my behavior placed the bowl in an opportunity where I could chip it. If I had focused on my wife, instead of myself and my misery, that silly little incident would never have happened. I use this illustration because it's a simple part of life. Relationships make us better, but not when we are focused on what there is for us to get out of them. Just by being and shifting the focus do they [relationships] improve us.

You seem to have initially gravitated to this guy because of his personality. He was someone you immediately could relate to. That, my friend, is the mark of a Christian. You want to talk to them. It's funny, but the first two statements about this guy are that you admire (1) his seriousness about Christianity and (2) his maturity. Let me just say I think you're starving for both those things.

It's when you add to them that your confusion arises. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having good friends, and being able to share things with them. I think some "intimacy" as far as sharing and hanging out is lost in the modern world between guys. We have those expectations not to be "gay" but to be manly and not show/share our issues, struggles, and problems. This is where you did connect to him, but maybe not in the way you think.

To close this long post of mine out, you placed this dude in a relationship uncomfortable to him to make you happy. Hate to tell you, but that ain't love. It doesn't matter if it's hetero, homo, amongst friends, or whatever. That is what the verses posted by Angelina mean, you frankly have to cut that stuff off and stop looking for the rewards of a relationship to be focused on you. You're not toxic. You seem at least reasonably interesting to talk to for people here. You also seem - and this is important as a first step - willing to introspect. That's the beginnings of Christianity. We sorta have to come to the realization that no person, program, friend, book, movie, etc is going to help us.

The next step is cutting the excess off. In the Bible it's labeled as being dead to self, or the old self dying. Don't kid yourself that you're alone in that struggle. Each person struggles with that. You can see the double-mindedness of Paul, for example. Now that was a faithful dude willing to endure so much because he loved Jesus and people. He could whip all of us here combined in his knowledge of Scripture.

Jesus makes this remark:

Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Subsequently, the Apostles with him feel asleep, because that was their temptation at the time. So you see how good they were at it. Jesus had just said (many times) - hey guys, I'm about to be arrested, be crucified, die, and then come back, so pay attention because it's the reason you'll get to heaven. A little later, zzzzzz is all that's heard from them. We struggle with materialism, homosexuality, hetereosexuality (IE: adultery), and many more crazy things (hunger, poverty, etc.) and these guys couldn't just stay awake! Such is the nature of these skin and bones bodies.

I know that was really long, but I pray that you get the message out of it that I think God is trying to give you! He never runs away or lets his anger overtake his love.
 
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