It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

[Mjh29]

um, totally winging it now, but imo because they operate under a different system, namely the Rule of Law. The world, iow. A completely necessary vehicle, i guess, at least until we abolish greed, love of money.

But what is law? Why is my law the same as your law? Why do I have to accept any punishment for an action I don't see as wrong? Because someone else
Said so? If truth is not objective, how do they have the right? I don't think I'm wrong.... who are you to tell me otherwise?

 

[bbyrd009]

It's not a matter of personal opinion, but bbyrd009 is correct to say that what is a sin for one person may not be a sin for another.

A sin requires three components:
1. A transgression of God's laws or commands
2. Full knowledge - a person must know and understand that the transgression is against God's laws or commands
3. Deliberate consent.

I can't see how that relates to objective truth though.

well, knowing what a sin is, being able to define one, would imo be considered an essential component of an objective truth. "This is objectively true, ergo any transgression from this objective truth is a sin."

Or, what is the point in defining an objective truth, if not to discern a lie? There might be other frames, i guess? But i think it reduces to that?

 

[Mjh29]

the Book gives no objective truth--or at least i am still waiting there--and It is the same Book that tells us a sin for me is not necessarily a sin for you. Contrast this with the Rule of Law, wherein--ostensibly, at least, even if not really true, because money--all are held to the same standard.

Jesus said I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life. Jesus is an object, and he is truth

 

[bbyrd009]

BTW has anybody defined what is meant by "objective truth" (or indeed just "truth"?

ha good point--seems self evident, but may not be.

"A proposition is generally considered objectively true (to have objective truth) when its truth conditions are met without biases ..."

works for me. any objections?

 

[Mjh29]

well, knowing what a sin is, being able to define one, would imo be considered an essential component of an objective truth. "This is objectively true, ergo any transgression from this objective truth is a sin."

Or, what is the point in defining an objective truth, if not to discern a lie? There might be other frames, i guess? But i think it reduces to that?

So if this is true.... and the less you know the less you sin... man, I gotta stop reading the Bible!! The more things I know are sin, the more sin I commit.... right? So why should I read my Bible? To commit more sin?

 

[bbyrd009]

To me the only objective truth is the Bible

yet i cannot get a single example? hmm. i am suspicious of your objective truth, and i have had this conversation many times now. Objective truth is a chimera, at least for us, from our perspective. Objective Truth may be just another reference for God, even.

 

[Mjh29]

yet i cannot get a single example? hmm. i am suspicious of your objective truth, and i have had this conversation many times now. Objective truth is a chimera, at least for us, from our perspective. Objective Truth may be just another reference for God, even.

what do you mean an example?!?
It IS the objective truth!!! What is so hard to comprehend about that? The Scriptures, from cover to cover, are the objective truth! The Bible says so itself!!

 

[bbyrd009]

So if this is true.... and the less you know the less you sin... man, I gotta stop reading the Bible!! The more things I know are sin, the more sin I commit.... right? So why should I read my Bible? To commit more sin?

i understand where you are coming from, but i suggest that this is a death-centered perspective, engendered purposely by the world, that posits God as angry and vengeful. Becoming like a little child does not mean that you will no longer make any mistakes, but that you will not use your will deliberately against your neighbor's interests, or be willfully blind to the consequences imo.

When there is no profit to be realized from abusing people, then 99% of what we deem sin disappears, i think. Which of course requires a profound change of mind. I mostly just talk about it good myself.

 

[bbyrd009]

what do you mean an example?!?
It IS the objective truth!!! What is so hard to comprehend about that? The Scriptures, from cover to cover, are the objective truth! The Bible says so itself!!

then quote that, if you will, and we will see.

 

[bbyrd009]

i understand where you are coming from, but i suggest that this is a death-centered perspective, engendered purposely by the world, that posits God as angry and vengeful.

while one may certainly find passages that reflect this, this is becuase these passages are the ones they found, see, that reflect their hearts. "Play" is mentioned like twice as often as "redemption" in Scripture, but how many Christians do you hear reflecting their Scriptural understanding of play, right.

 

[Mjh29]

then quote that, if you will, and we will see.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God
14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us

John 14
6 I am the way, the TRUTH and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me

So we see that the word is not A truth, but THE truth.... showing that there is only one truth

 

[bbyrd009]

what do you mean an example?!?
It IS the objective truth!!! What is so hard to comprehend about that? The Scriptures, from cover to cover, are the objective truth! The Bible says so itself!!

then please quote the passage, i'm not doubting it, but let's read it, and we will see. Plus examples of objective truth should be rife in such an environment, wouldn't you say? We call them doctrines; and i am just asking for your fondest doctrine from Scripture. Let's put 'er through the fire she how she really holds up.

of course we will reach a deadlock and a poll will reveal a roughly 50/50 split in beliefs on the matter. It is a foregone conclusion.

 

[bbyrd009]

You cannot give me a single example of objective truth, that you can universally apply.

deep, huh.

 

[bbyrd009]

So we see that the word is not A truth, but THE truth.... showing that there is only one truth

"objective truth is prolly just another Name for God" yes, which i guess is why you cannot actually give an example of it--even though virtually everyone is convinced that they can.

 

[Mjh29]

You cannot give me a single example of objective truth, that you can universally apply.

deep, huh.

See my previous post

 

[Mjh29]

"objective truth is prolly just another Name for God" yes, which i guess is why you cannot actually give an example of it--even though virtually everyone is convinced that they can.

WHAY DO YOU MEAN!??? I am honestly baffled! I just gave you an example from Scripture!

 

[bbyrd009]

You are the arbiter of objective truth; what you believe is true for you. The mistake lies in believing that that truth is the same for everyone else.

 

[bbyrd009]

WHAY DO YOU MEAN!??? I am honestly baffled! I just gave you an example from Scripture!

ha well look, your "objective truth" is "God?" kinda a poetic answer, don't you think? Shouldn't you have examples up the wazoo in this midst?

 

[Mjh29]

You are the arbiter of objective truth; what you believe is true for you. The mistake lies in believing that that truth is the same for everyone else.

Then how can anyone go to heaven? Or does everyone?

 

[Mjh29]

ha well look, your "objective truth" is "God?" kinda a poetic answer, don't you think? Shouldn't you have examples up the wazoo in this midst?

I dont need to use worldly examples. If God says so who am I to disagree?