It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

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Spiritual Israelite

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So you are simply telling me, as you've told me before, that you only believe some of God's promises, but not all, even when He ties His promise to the very sun rising and setting, but you don't believe it. On what basis do you believe any of God's promises?
How do you think you can have a fruitful discussion with anyone when you tell them lies like "you only believe some of God's promises"? Everyone here believes that God keeps all of His promises. We just don't have the same understanding of all of His promises. But, no one claims that He doesn't keep some of His promises. Making false accusations like this is completely unproductive.

Then why do you think God is wrong?
Ridiculous question. Have you just lost your mind at this point or something? While I obviously strongly disagree with you and others here about some things, I would never ask you or anyone else here such a ludicrous question as you asked him. I don't believe anyone here thinks that God is ever wrong.
 
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covenantee

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Maybe one day they will learn, but they will never change the facts that God takes the Church away just before the 70th week starts.
We'd like to see your learned explanation of how your decapitated undetermined 70th week comports with Daniel's declaration, that all 70 weeks are determined. Daniel 9:24

You obviously didn't learn yours from Daniel.
 
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WPM

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Op Note

Notice how Pretribbers are incapable of answering simple questions, showing any proof-texts or engaging in civil discussion in regard to their beliefs. Check any thread. Their MO is ad hominem and avoidance. The Op here remains unchallenged. That is because they have no rebuttal. It is true and biblical. They would rather run with what they have been taught. They seem incapable of letting the Word speak for itself.
 

PeterAndroz

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Op Note

Notice how Pretribbers are incapable of answering simple questions, showing any proof-texts or engaging in civil discussion in regard to their beliefs. Check any thread. Their MO is ad hominem and avoidance. The Op here remains unchallenged. That is because they have no rebuttal. It is true and biblical. They would rather run with what they have been taught. They seem incapable of letting the Word speak for itself.
Bet you are incapable of or avoid listening to this
 

WPM

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LOL. Those who push outside links typically admit they cannot prove what they believe and cannot refute the truth before them. I will take this as a complement. You reinforce the thesis of the Op and the claim i made in my last post. No Pretrib can engage in a profitable discussion and prove their viewpoint. That is because it is not in the Bible.

Pretrib is on the ropes. It is on the run.
 

PeterAndroz

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LOL. Those who push outside links typically admit they cannot prove what they believe and cannot refute the truth before them. I will take this as a complement. You reinforce the thesis of the Op and the claim i made in my last post. No Pretrib can engage in a profitable discussion and prove their viewpoint. That is because it is not in the Bible.

Pretrib is on the ropes. It is on the run.
LOL
WOW wpm, that was quick
What is your synopsis on that 50 minute teaching ?
I look forward to it :)
 

WPM

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LOL
WOW wpm, that was quick
What is your synopsis on that 50 minute teaching ?
I look forward to it :)
Lol. I don't do outside links. I only engage with posters that can respond. By your avoidance, you obviously cannot address or rebut the Op. If you could you would.
 

PeterAndroz

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Lol. I don't do outside links. I only engage with posters that can respond. By your avoidance, you obviously cannot address or rebut the Op. If you could you would.
""Lol. I don't do outside links.""
Church teachings aren't your thing because you know all there is to know.
Your my new GOTO :gd
 

WPM

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""Lol. I don't do outside links.""
Church teachings aren't your thing because you know all there is to know.
Your my new GOTO :gd
No. I engage with real people who you can respond. I have no interest in wasting 50 minutes of my good time listening to false teaching.

Now, will you address the Op?
 

PeterAndroz

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No. I engage with real people who you can respond. I have no interest in wasting 50 minutes of my good time listening to false teaching.

Now, will you address the Op?
What is there to address.
Everything you write is beyond reproach
You are my new GOTO
If I have a question, it is only you I will ask :gd
 
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Laura

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One shall be taken, and the other left

Jesus teaches in Matthew 24:35-41: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away,” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” What day and hour? The one and only final future climactic coming (or parousia) of our Lord. Please see the Greek word is used twice here in this passage. This final day that is approaching is coming unexpectedly for the lost. His arrival will surprise only those who are not prepared for it. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

The Lord uses the word parousia again in v 37 to equate the days preceding His coming to the days preceding Noah’s entry into the ark, saying, “as the days of Noe were, so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be.” In His reply, Christ confirmed, what the disciples already seem to have rightly comprehended, in their questioning, that His next Coming is His last and only future coming and that it ushers in “the end of the world (or age)”

We note three particular characteristics of this day, which will be repeated at the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1) The wicked lived as if there was no judgement coming, verse 38 says, “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” (2) The wicked were caught unexpected, verse 39 says, they “knew not until the flood came.” And finally, (3) the wicked were ALL destroyed, verse 39 says, “the flood came, and took them all away.”

Thus, the second coming of the Lord shall come in like manner, verse 39 confirms, “so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be."

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 says: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”





This is what false teaching produces. It is ridiculous! It is fanciful! It is absurd!



And then Pretribbers wonder why we do not take their arguments serious. That is because their arguments are a joke.

There is a catching away ("rapture") here, but no tribulation period following. That is because it is ongoing since the early Church. If Pretrib was true, this is where you would find it, but no, It is not here. Neither can you add it to the inspired text. That is forbidden. What follows Christ's climactic appearing then? Total destruction!

This is a record of Christ’s one and only future coming. This reading describes how Christ comes “with” and “for” His saints the next time. Verse 14 of our reading explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Those living believers will be “caught up” to meet Jesus when He appears. This is the final uniting of the elect on earth (the live in Christ) and those in heaven (the dead in Christ). It is accompanied by the great sound of the trump ushering in the end. The word rendered “remain” in our King James Version (which relates to those that are alive at Christ’s coming) is the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Thus, we can take from this reading that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving. These are tribulation saints.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.
Ok so I was here for none of the pre trib debates, nor have I read your post here, though I'm going to. But all I had to do was to see the title of this post and I said "Amen"