It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Taken]

Why are you so full of bitterness and venom? Why the hate?

Why do you think your lying accusations has anything to do with me?

 

[Taken]

I am reporting your hate. You are out of control.

Oh… boo hoo…
If I’m angry, or hate… I’ll Be the one to speak for myself….gaslighter…

 

[WPM]

I asked you directly… having Nothing said about The Rapture or Pre/Trib.

You did not answer.
You gaslight.
You deny.
You accuse the Saved in Christ…

Nothing by your fruits indicate you HAVE Salvation.

Keep your false accusations to yourself. Thankfully you are not God or most of us would be damned. The scary part is, the judgment you meet at on us is met back on you some day.

All you have is ad hominem.

 

[WPM]

Boo Hoo.
I don’t Judge you.
I recognize your Devious Tactics.
The Lord God Shall Judge you…

I'm done talking to you until you apologize, act like a Christian, stop judging people's salvation and start addressing Scripture instead of hurling ad hominem.

 

[WPM]

Right. There is no consistency in their interpretive approach to scripture whatsoever. It's just random. Whatever they need to do to make scripture say what they want it to say, that's what they do. It's a joke.

They are unable to present any rapture passage that teaches a trib following. They have nothing. Pretrib is so fractured now in locating a future Pretrib rapture in Revelation that they take each other out with their posts. Few even try and presnt Revelation 4:1 as an argument. They have final woken up to the folly of such teaching.

 

[WPM]

Bingo.

He has nothing but claims of avoidance. He is continually answered. He can't refute. Then he claims avoidance.

In the end believers are instructed to avoid those that cause divisions.

I asked him many times to give me one question, his best question and I will answer it. When it's answered he will the string together dozens of baloney questions and say see you have avoided all 142 questions that I asked.

Not worth my time.

Lol. So, anyone who disagrees with what you teach should be avoided? How arrogant! How delusional! What a load of nonsense. We all disagree on this forum. That is not what it's talking about.

This is all a smokescreen to mask you having no answer to the simple biblical questions. The ironic thing is that you are totally and utterly incapable of presenting one proof text to support your paradigm. You have absolutely nothing. The reason why you're running is because you are bereft of any biblical warrant.

 

[WPM]

Why would John have to have written about a pre-trib rapture in Revelation to make it true or not true?

But just for fun...

Revelation 4:1... "After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, 'Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.'"

Considering you believe all of Revelation is pure symbolism....and you've cracked the code....the symbolism of "come up here" has been described to me by people like you as a "type" or shadow of the church being "caught up" just before chapter 6 unfolds.

Where is the "Church" mentioned here? Revelation 4:1-2 is describing John being caught up in the Spirit 2000 years to receive the unveiling. This is therefore historic, not future.

 

[WPM]

Why would John have to have written about a pre-trib rapture in Revelation to make it true or not true?

But just for fun...

Revelation 4:1... "After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, 'Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.'"

Considering you believe all of Revelation is pure symbolism....and you've cracked the code....the symbolism of "come up here" has been described to me by people like you as a "type" or shadow of the church being "caught up" just before chapter 6 unfolds.

Revelation 4:1-2 has absolutely nothing to do with a secret rapture. In fact, note what it actually says and how it compares to similarly worded passages in Revelation. Remember, the safest way to understand Scripture is to compare Scripture with Scripture.

Revelation 4:1-2 commences, “After this (speaking of his supernatural encounter with Christ on Patmos) I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.”

There is no allusion here of the Lord descending in the clouds from heaven, there is no mention of the Church, we don’t see the saints rising to meet Him, there is no mention of the dead in Christ being resurrected and those who are alive and remain being caught up, there is no meeting Jesus in the air. It is all an elaborate hoax formulated by men which enjoys no biblical basis for their doctrine.

Nowhere in this chapter do we find any description of, or allusion to, the rapture of the saints. Rather, in contrast, it is a record of the catching away of John “in the Spirit” (4:2) to receive further revelation. In fact, chapters 4 & 5 in their totality outline a detailed description, by John, of the heavenly court and the One who sits upon the throne. Moreover, nowhere in this chapter is there even the slightest allusion to the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ or the Church of Jesus Christ – generally.

(1) Who was this command addressed to?
(2) When did, or will, this event occur?
(3) What was it specifically speaking of?

(1) John
(2) It occurred 2,000 years ago
(3) John being caught up “in the spirit” into “heaven” to receive a supernatural revelation of things to come “hereafter.”

In this reading, the Lord simply commands John to “Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” The revelation that he would now receive would thus relate to events from this time (2,000 years ago) forth. The same idea and similar wording is found in two other passages in this apocalyptic book, after he had been caught up:

 

[CrowCross]

He rejects the Truth…and desperately tries to Suck The Righteous into his own mystery of ignorance and denial.

I've been scrolling past most of his post.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I've been scrolling past most of his post.

That is definately wisdom.
Especially if he is amil.

 

[WPM]

I've been scrolling past most of his post.

LOL. No wonder! You have to. You cannot address them. They demolish your error.