It Must Be Absolutely Terrifying To Be A Post-Tribulation Believer

[ewq1938]

It says the AC kills all refusing the mark.

It does not say that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Agreed.


It may be... but that doesn't make it correct. God never promises to remove His people from any sort of tribulation, but to be with them and walk with them and protect them through it, in the midst of it. He doesn't remove us from anything, but rather delivers us. Among many others:

"Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life..." (Psalm 23)

Grace and peace to all.

" pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of God"
Only ptretrib rapture adherents pray that.
The 10 virgin parable is the same worthiness dynamic.
Worthy
Only those with extra oil are gathered.
Gathered straight to the Fathers house.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It does not say that.

If i was a betting man, I could make some money off of you

 

[ewq1938]

If i was a betting man, I could make some money off of you

No, because you don't correctly remember what the bible says.

 

[ewq1938]

" pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of God"
Only ptretrib rapture adherents pray that.

Prayed errantly, without understanding what it means.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

No, we aren't told to pray for a pre-trib rapture in Luke 21:36.


In Matthew 24 he placed gathering of saints (which is the rapture) as happening after the GT has ended so Luke 21:36 is not addressing the rapture.


1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

 

[David in NJ]

All views except pre-trib create irreconcileable conflicts with a number of other passages. Only pre-trib brings harmony throughout. The other views require their adherants to not accept the plain sayings of many places in the Bible.

Much love!

Start with a couple of side by side scriptures that support your claim of "irreconcileable conflicts" of post-trib.

 

[marks]

Start with a couple of side by side scriptures that support your claim of "irreconcileable conflicts" of post-trib.

We've discussed this a lot.

Are you willing to stand with the plain sayings of the words that are written?

So for example,

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

These are the words that are written, that when Jesus comes in glory, He's going to sit on His throne of glory, and gather all the nations to be judged, excepting of course "the chosen", who were previously gathered by the angels, at the time of Jesus' return.

Do you agree this is what the passage is intended to communicate? A parallel passage to Joel 3?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

@Paul2 @marks @rebuilder 454

3 Irrefutable Holy Spirit facts that make 'pre-trib rapture' a big lie:

#1 - pre-trib rapture is in direct conflict with the words of the LORD = Matthew chapter 24

#2 - There is not one direct statement/declaration/prophecy declaring a pre-trib rapture and/or any rapture BEFORE Christ's Coming.

#3 - pre-trib rapture is in direct conflict with OT Prophecy and the Apostles warnings/writings.

 

[David in NJ]

We've discussed this a lot.

Are you willing to stand with the plain sayings of the words that are written?

So for example,

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

These are the words that are written, that when Jesus comes in glory, He's going to sit on His throne of glory, and gather all the nations to be judged, excepting of course "the chosen", who were previously gathered by the angels, at the time of Jesus' return.

Do you agree this is what the passage is intended to communicate? A parallel passage to Joel 3?

Much love!

There are no 'pre-trib rapture' declarations in Matt chapter 25

Matthew chapter 23 , chapter 24 and chapter 25 declare no rapture until the Return/Coming of Christ

 

[marks]

Do you agree this is what the passage is intended to communicate? A parallel passage to Joel 3?

@David in NJ

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

3 Irrefutable Holy Spirit facts that make 'pre-trib rapture' a big lie:

#1 - pre-trib rapture is in direct conflict with the words of the LORD = Matthew chapter 24

#2 - There is not one direct statement/declaration/prophecy declaring a pre-trib rapture and/or any rapture BEFORE Christ's Coming.

#3 - pre-trib rapture is in direct conflict with OT Prophecy and the Apostles warnings/writings.

I agree with you, David, but I would call it a "Holy Spirit fact" that there is no support for any "rapture" of any kind in any relation to Christ's return... and only ~ <chuckle> "only," as if it is some trivial thing ~ that Christ's return will be a very rapturous event.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

" pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of God"
Only ptretrib rapture adherents pray that.

I pray that I will endure to the end, along with the rest of the saints. But I know ~ have absolute confidence ~ that I will, because I have the Holy Spirit, through Whom Christ is with me to the end of the age (Matthew 28:20) and through Whom I am seated with Christ in the heavenly places. And because Paul said that He who began a good work in us will bring it to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6). But I still pray, because, well, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit all say to do so.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ

Much love!

There are no 'pre-trib rapture' declarations in Matt chapter 25
Matthew chapter 23 , chapter 24 and chapter 25 declare no rapture until the Return/Coming of Christ

The Apostles John and Paul only spoke of One Second Coming of Christ occurring AFTER the antichrist.

 

[marks]

There are no 'pre-trib rapture' declarations in Matt chapter 25
Matthew chapter 23 , chapter 24 and chapter 25 declare no rapture until the Return/Coming of Christ

The Apostles John and Paul only spoke of One Second Coming of Christ occurring AFTER the antichrist.

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to discuss this. My mistake! You wanted to see a contradiction, didn't you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

There are no 'pre-trib rapture' declarations in Matt chapter 25

Matthew chapter 23 , chapter 24 and chapter 25 declare no rapture until the Return/Coming of Christ

And I'm saying they don't. The only way to make sense of this passage as though it were saying the church is raptured in Matthew 24:31 is to not accept the plain saying of Matthew 25:31ff.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to discuss this. My mistake! You wanted to see a contradiction, didn't you?

Much love!

In order to discuss you must first provide evidence supporting your position.

JESUS fully covered His Second Coming in the previous chapters 23 and 24.

Matthew ch25 has 3 separate messages concerning His Coming and who exactly will be part of His Kingdom

#1 - Jesus begins ch25 with a parable and WARNING = Matt 25:1-13

#2 - Jesus explains our responsibility with Salvation/Talents and WARNING= Matt 25:14-30

#3 - Jesus explains that HE will judge the world and Right/Left WARNING = Matt 25:31-44

 

[marks]

In order to discuss you must first provide evidence supporting your position.

JESUS fully covered His Second Coming in the previous chapters 23 and 24.

Matthew ch25 has 3 separate messages concerning His Coming and who exactly will be part of His Kingdom

#1 - Jesus begins ch25 with a parable and WARNING = Matt 25:1-13

#2 - Jesus explains our responsibility with Salvation/Talents and WARNING= Matt 25:14-30

#3 - Jesus explains that HE will judge the world and Right/Left WARNING = Matt 25:31-44

You asked me about a contradiction, let's not switch lanes. I've asked you a pretty simple question, or so it seems to me. Are you not able to answer?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

You asked me about a contradiction, let's not switch lanes. I've asked you a pretty simple question, or so it seems to me. Are you not able to answer?

Much love!

But you have not brought forth any Post-Trib contradiction.

There are no Post-Trib contradictions in Matt ch25

 

[Eternally Grateful]

F you’re a true child of God. You should not fear anything even death itself.. because your eternity is secure.

 

[PinSeeker]

One clarification, David. Do you hold that the millennium will begin after the events of Matthew 25:31-46? Or before, maybe? I may or may not have a follow-up question. Thank you.

Grace and peace to you.