Its not sin, until.

[Behold]

she very quickly forgot what God had said if you eat, you will die. The serpent said, surely you will not die. ..

Perhaps she didn't believe she would die......having been convinced by....>"hath God said", which makes sense, being that she was deceived.

This is interesting because this is the questioning of God's word by the Devil.

Today we see this same from Pulpits, Forums, and similar when someone says....but is that what the verse means...
Or they do it like this...>"we have the Greek, so, the bible is not necessary" 'after all the bible is full of errors".....says the Devil.

There are many ways to question God's word, and Satan uses them all to deceive.

 

[APAK]

No Eve did not choose the moral law as you keep stating. She along with Adam were in communion with God. They were innocent . She was decieved by the serpent because of what she was being offered if she ate the fruit from that tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Even though she quoted to the serpent, what God had said. If she chose a moral law, it would mean she knew the difference. She would already know good from evil but she did not ..

Eve and any person today still do not know how to control or avoid evil, so how could Eve or anyone today know what is truly good?! Eve and anyone today who does NOT have the spirit of Christ chooses the moral law. Their walk as their own god that opposes the Creator. Even many Christians still hesitate and still choose the moral law (their sense of right and wrong and then judgment of self and others) when they should be 'innocent' and choose in faith their new spirit of Christ in their actions. We do not choose the moral law anymore.

Eve was innocent once, and then she truly chose the moral law by deceit and thus demonstrated lack of faith in her Creator. She chose the moral law because she THOUGHT, in her own mind, independent and without inclusion of her Creator, and by evil deceit, she knew the difference, and she NEVER did. Only God knows the morality of any creature. Eve made herself a god against her Creator. She became a rival and an enemy. The idea and common excuse that our Creator gave us 'free' will is a cop out and a lie when it comes to this topic of morality. He never gave us 'free' will to oppose him and become our own god. And then to fall and we certainty 'fell.' Until Christ of course and restored us into full nakedness, back into the garden, face to face with our Creator.

 

[Angelina]

Eve and any person today still do not know how to control or avoid evil, so how could Eve or anyone today know what is truly good?! Eve and anyone today who does NOT have the spirit of Christ chooses the moral law. Their walk as their own god that opposes the Creator. Even many Christians still hesitate and still choose the moral law (their sense of right and wrong and then judgment of self and others) when they should be 'innocent' and choose in faith their new spirit of Christ in their actions. We do not choose the moral law anymore.

Eve was innocent once, and then she truly chose the moral law by deceit and thus demonstrated lack of faith in her Creator. She chose the moral law because she THOUGHT, in her own mind, independent and without inclusion of her Creator, and by evil deceit, she knew the difference, and she NEVER did. Only God knows the morality of any creature. Eve made herself a god against her Creator. She became a rival and an enemy. The idea and common excuse that our Creator gave us 'free' will is a cop out and a lie when it comes to this topic of morality. He never gave us 'free' will to oppose him and become our own god. And then to fall and we certainty 'fell.' Until Christ of course and restored us into full nakedness, back into the garden, face to face with our Creator.

Most humans are aware of the consequences of doing right or wrong because we live in a society that makes laws so that we do not do things that will in any way hurt others etc. Even children are aware of what constitutes as good and what is not good whether they were influenced or not. How many times do you think God said to Adam and Eve "thou shalt not"? I can only find it once in the bible. There was nothing for Adam and Eve to Tangibly compare sin with accept by what God said.

 

[Taken]

@Taken
Yes we are very blessed to be able to look back and see what He has already done what He said He would, so looking into the future, we can be certain He will also do all He say's He will. He does not change and I just love that.
Trust man- Pfft is right! I trust NO man, period.

Watched a movie last night on Pureflix about how the government is and has been trying for some time now, to put a stop to homeschooling. Men have the devils curriculum. Want to indoctrinate our kids to the way of the world (or Satan) It becomes clearer and clearer each day how evil is threaded through the most innocent of things and, so many are fooled, even many Christians.
I sure hope to get an underground gathering together as, I am looking for a place in the countryside, selling my house. Looking for some surrounding land and lot's of trees...we never know when we will have to hide in order to gather and pray and worship Him. It is coming on so very fast, like a woman in labor...closer and closer, more and more intense.
God help your Church!

We are in the stage (days) of “sorrows”....the beginning of “birth pangs”....the beginning of “deliverance”... the hard part...the “waiting”...the “deliverance” is Christ “collecting His Chruch”....and God “collecting His Israel”.

Praise and Glory to God,
Taken

 

[APAK]

Most humans are aware of the consequences of doing right or wrong because we live in a society that makes laws so that we do not do things that will in any way hurt others etc. Even children are aware of what constitutes as good and what is not good whether they were influenced or not. How many times do you think God said to Adam and Eve "thou shalt not"? I can only find it once in the bible. There was nothing for Adam and Eve to Tangibly compare sin with accept by what God said.

You are missing the essence and the main point of this discussion. It is easy to miss it as most do. It can be a really troubling topic for many Christians.

We have a sense of right or wrong because even a Christian is still in a corrupt shell and the world of evil and a spirit that will not give up entirely in yanking us back to death. We are a work in progress. And we still sense this right and wrong even being saved. We are to grow OUT of it as we work out our salvation and come back to the garden once again.

We are not to even go there, or work through 'our' 'free' will and choose or decide our sense of 'right or wrong' regardless if we stand and shout out, this is definitely right, and this is definitely wrong. We always work in and through Christ. He is our truth and moral compass. We are not meant to have one, being saved. Else we are choosing to be as Eve, being a free-willed god separate from our maker. That is not our purpose today.

You are couching your explanations and logic based on fallen mankind and you are placing yourself with them as an unsaved person when you forget who you are meant to be today. The point of this discussion is when Adam and Eve were innocent and knew nothing of right or wrong (moral conscienceless). There was no such thing as 'free' will to them before their chose their own path of godliness and nor should there really be for us!

 

[Taken]

I don't believe the blood of animals atones for sin. I'm sorry.
.

Animals Blood WAS, for atonement of sin....it’s part of History. It’s understanding History, to understand Present and Future.

Blood is always for atonement.
Blood of animals First.
Blood of Jesus Second.
Men laying down their lives...(crucified with Christ), is man giving his blood...
(Mans LIFE IS his blood).
Some men during the Trib will come into belief and willing lay down their life...blood...for God. (Ie martyrs).

Blood of a pure animal freely given by a man in the Temple; “did” atone for a mans sin for ONE year, for thousands of years. The following year the process would be repeated.

Once Jesus gave His blood, ( “which was a major part of the NEW BETTER TESTAMENT”), AND Once the Temple in Jerusalem fell, there was NO MORE possibility for animals to be “given” for slaughter, (as required to occur in The Temple in Jerusalem), for animal blood atonement.

THAT ^ is one of the primary reasons, JEWS (who still do not believe JESUS IS the Christ, or that they are atoned by His Blood)....desire to Rebuild the Temple. (BTW everything for the Temple is completely prepared....it is the Precise place to build that is always in discussion.)

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

Animals Blood WAS, for atonement of sin....it’s part of History. It’s understanding History, to understand Present and Future.

Blood is always for atonement.
Blood of animals First.
Blood of Jesus Second.
Men laying down their lives...(crucified with Christ), is man giving his blood...
(Mans LIFE IS his blood).
Some men during the Trib will come into belief and willing lay down their life...blood...for God. (Ie martyrs).

Blood of a pure animal freely given by a man in the Temple; “did” atone for a mans sin for ONE year, for thousands of years. The following year the process would be repeated.

Once Jesus gave His blood, ( “which was a major part of the NEW BETTER TESTAMENT”), AND Once the Temple in Jerusalem fell, there was NO MORE possibility for animals to be “given” for slaughter, (as required to occur in The Temple in Jerusalem), for animal blood atonement.

THAT ^ is one of the primary reasons, JEWS (who still do not believe JESUS IS the Christ, or that they are atoned by His Blood)....desire to Rebuild the Temple. (BTW everything for the Temple is completely prepared....it is the Precise place to build that is always in discussion.)

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Glory to God,
Taken

The sacrifice of the scapegoat had to be repeated every year and God, not the Jewish god who they worshipped, but the Father, abhorred sacrifice and burnt offerings. (Ask me for the scriptures.) That has set the cat among the pigeons now hasn't it. I'm Sorry. Then you speak of men laying down their life for God, this is not for the remission of sins, and while God provided Abram an alternative, he was not going to allow Abram to shed his son's blood. There is only one sacrifice for the sins of mankind as we all know.
.

 

[Angelina]

You are missing the essence and the main point of this discussion. It is easy to miss it as most do. It can be a really troubling topic for many Christians.

We have a sense of right or wrong because even a Christian is still in a corrupt shell and the world of evil and a spirit that will not give up entirely in yanking us back to death. We are a work in progress. And we still sense this right and wrong even being saved. We are to grow OUT of it as we work out our salvation and come back to the garden once again.

We are not to even go there, or work through 'our' 'free' will and choose or decide our sense of 'right or wrong' regardless if we stand and shout out, this is definitely right, and this is definitely wrong. We always work in and through Christ. He is our truth and moral compass. We are not meant to have one, being saved. Else we are choosing to be as Eve, being a free-willed god separate from our maker. That is not our purpose today.

You are couching your explanations and logic based on fallen mankind and you are placing yourself with them as an unsaved person when you forget who you are meant to be today. The point of this discussion is when Adam and Eve were innocent and knew nothing of right or wrong (moral conscienceless). There was no such thing as 'free' will to them before their chose their own path of godliness and nor should there really be for us!

Behold -

Before she ate it, before Adam ate it, their issue is this..>"choose this day who you will serve".
So, they had a choice to do what God said or to do what the Serpent suggested.
This isn't a moral choice, this is a "choose this day who you will serve".......free will.

When I spoke regarding free will, I was referring to what Behold had said.

I think we may be on different paths of thinking here...What I am trying to understand is why you guys are talking about moral laws and associating that with Eve?????? The law came into being 430 years after the promises where made to Abraham, his descendants and the Gentiles through the coming one, Jesus Christ the anointed one. Please tell me how do you associate what Adam and Eve [the fall of man] to the law of Moses? This is what I am trying to get at...

 

[APAK]

@Behold I believe @Angelina is requesting a response to her post #66. Since you never got the prompt because she did not programmatically mention you with a @, and because it's your thread, I will wait until you might answer her first...

 

[Angelina]

@APAK....my post is #66 Oooohh sorry @APAK Tired, just come back from work and not slept since yesterday....I thought you were talking to me
Also @APAK I just wrote "Behold" without the @ because I was explaining to you>>>>> why I was talking about free will in my post seeing that you qouted me from it........<sigh>

 

[Taken]

The sacrifice of the scapegoat had to be repeated every year and God, not the Jewish god who they worshipped, but the Father, abhorred sacrifice and burnt offerings.

What are you talking about.....”scapegoat”?
What are you talking about.....not the “Jewish god they worshipped”?
......but the Father, “abhorred Sacrifice and burnt offerings”?

(Ask me for the scriptures.) That has set the cat among the pigeons now hasn't it.

No, rather you are talking about something completely different than what I said.

Then you speak of men laying down their life for God, this is not for the remission of sins,

A mans bodily LIFE IS his blood.
A man laying down GIVING his Life FOR GOD, is not FOR remission of sin, nor did I say so. A mans BLOOD IS CORRUPT. It is Christ’s PURE Blood that is LAID DOWN, GIVEN for the remission of sin!

You appear to be disagreeing with what I DID NOT say.

 

[APAK]

@APAK....my post is #66 Oooohh sorry @APAK Tired, just come back from work and not slept since yesterday....I thought you were talking to me
View attachment 20951 Also @APAK I just wrote "Behold" without the @ because I was explaining to you>>>>> why I was talking about free will in my post seeing that you qouted me from it........<sigh>

The moral code/law does not have to be codified centuries later to know what happened in the garden. It still was the law of morality enacted before it was given to a chosen people. God gave this law and others to Moses to reveal and demonstrate upon a set people of how weak and imperfect these laws are without also having faith in God and the future Messiah. Some did know the formula and achieved righteousness through faith, despite the reigning Law.

The choice to obey the command not to desire the knowledge of good or evil was via faith, and love and not by any independent 'free' will.
The choice to disobey the command and desire the knowledge of good or evil was via selfishness and thus sin executed without faith and love and still not made by independent 'free' will. We have either evil impulses of sin or faith and love for our Creator. There is no free will at play at all. That is only an illusion that we are deciding freely. And when we think we use free will, do we eventually sin, and become our own god and die? Yes we do!

It is imperative we rely and operate on faith in the spirit of Christ given to us by our Creator. If we want to say we have 'free' will to do this then so be it. The spirit of Christ really is doing the thinking and deciding in these SPIRITUAL matters if we have constant faith in him, solely.

We are not talking here about making daily home and work decisions (free will) to live in this world. That is an entirely different freedom of thought.

Blessings...and get some good sleep Angelina

 

[Cooper]

What are you talking about.....”scapegoat”?
What are you talking about.....not the “Jewish god they worshipped”?
......but the Father, “abhorred Sacrifice and burnt offerings”?




No, rather you are talking about something completely different than what I said.




A mans bodily LIFE IS his blood.
A man laying down GIVING his Life FOR GOD, is not FOR remission of sin, nor did I say so. A mans BLOOD IS CORRUPT. It is Christ’s PURE Blood that is LAID DOWN, GIVEN for the remission of sin!

You appear to be disagreeing with what I DID NOT say.

You said animal blood WAS for the atonement of sins, and I followed that line of thinking. It was misunderstanding and I apologise for my part in it.
.

 

[Cooper]

So Jewish law forbids pornography while God's law allows it?

That's silly.
.

 

[Angelina]

The moral code/law does not have to be codified centuries later to know what happened in the garden. It still was the law of morality enacted before it was given to a chosen people. God gave this law and others to Moses to reveal and demonstrate upon a set people of how weak and imperfect these laws are without also having faith in God and the future Messiah. Some did know the formula and achieved righteousness through faith, despite the reigning Law.

The choice to obey the command not to desire the knowledge of good or evil was via faith, and love and not by any independent 'free' will.
The choice to disobey the command and desire the knowledge of good or evil was via selfishness and thus sin executed without faith and love and still not made by independent 'free' will. We have either evil impulses of sin or faith and love for our Creator. There is no free will at play at all. That is only an illusion that we are deciding freely. And when we think we use free will, do we eventually sin, and become our own god and die? Yes we do!

It is imperative we rely and operate on faith in the spirit of Christ given to us by our Creator. If we want to say we have 'free' will to do this then so be it. The spirit of Christ really is doing the thinking and deciding in these SPIRITUAL matters if we have constant faith in him, solely.

We are not talking here about making daily home and work decisions (free will) to live in this world. That is an entirely different freedom of thought.

Blessings...and get some good sleep Angelina

@APAK I'm going to take a nap and then come back later...just in case I say something Thanks

 

[Cooper]

So you don't want to believe Christ freed you from the knowledge of good & evil as per Romans7:4,6?

That is not what Romans 7:4-6 is saying, it tells us we are freed from OT law, but even so, we still come under the law of Christ as given in the Sermon on the Mount.

Tell me this though, going back to Adam and Eve, do you think it is wrong for husband and wife to see each other naked?
.

 

[Angelina]

Aren't babies born without the knowledge of good & evil as per Deuteronomy 1:39? Aren't babies believing in Jesus as per Mathew 18:6?

I believe that Moses was talking about their unborn children as Israel did not enter the promised land until all those who were 20 years old and over, who rejected the word of the Lord, died in the wilderness. The only adults who crossed the Jordon, were Joshua and Caleb....
Deuteronomy 1
38 Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall go in there. Encourage him, for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
39 ‘Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. 40 But as for you, turn and take your journey into the wilderness by the Way of the Red Sea.’

@Saved Christian you are taking verses out of context

Matthew 18
6 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

[Cooper]

If Adam and Eve had not chosen the forbidden knowledge of good & evil disobediently, won't all humans remain unclothed globally now? Why don't you let Christ rule without worrying over what's good & what's evil?

We are not robots. God gave us freewill.
.

 

[Cooper]

Why didn't God create Adam and Eve unclothed in His most holy presence & prohibit the knowledge of good & evil?

This is weird.

 

[Angelina]

Do "Little ones" & "children" refer to unborn children?

Why don't you trust & let Christ rule in you without you worrying over what's good & what's evil?

No, little ones and children do not always mean that they are children of a future time but you need to read scripture in context, otherwise you are cherry picking verses that suite your own personal theology. The verse you have chosen lacks validity based on your previous statement.

It is a strawman's argument to then suggest that I do not trust or let Christ rule.