James 2 No such thing as faith without works

[Ghada]

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

God in James 2 is not teaching against having faith without any works at all, because God in the Bible teaches that man cannot ever be without works at all in this life. If that were the case, how could God judge us by our works, if we can have no works to judge? All we need to do, is to do nothing at all, and escape the righteous judgment of God according to our works.

That is why some Christians trying to escape God's judgment of their works with their faith, are trying to teach a saving faith without works, which is impossible to have. The reason no such faith is possible in this life, is because the Bible shows it's not possible for anyone alive on earth to ever be without works, which is to have no works at all.

Only the natural minded man that denies both soul and spirit, believes man is not doing anything, if not outwardly.

However the Bible teaches that our works are also spiritual as well as physical. Our thoughts and intents of heart are also works judged by God. Jesus teaches lusting is committing adultery in the heart, and evil surmisings are a work of the flesh.

Therefore any Christian preaching they can have saving faith, or any kind of faith for that matter, without works, is because they are the natural minded that believe works are only outward. Like the natural man, they deny the soul and spirit, by not believing man's works judged by God include our spiritual works within our hearts and minds.

To have no works at all, according to the Bible, means having no faith at all, since thoughts and intents are judged as works by God.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Wicked works at enmity with God includes those of our minds. Therefore, it is impossible for any living person to be without works, because it is impossible for any thinking person to be without works. And so, it is impossible to have any faith without works of the spirit nor of the body.

The only ones having no works at all for God to judge, are dead bodies without the spirit, because corpses without the spirit have ceased from thinking and believing anything at all.

 

[Ghada]

There are some Christians preaching having faith set apart from our works. They know they still have works, but they are taught as not having part with their saving faith. They call it inner saving faith that 'stands alone' and apart from anything they may being doing at the time.

This is not only hypocritical religion, but it is also Biblically impossible, since Biblically our works include that of our spirit, and having faith is a work of our hearts. Having faith is what we think, intend, and believe. If we believe the truth, we are blessed of God, but if we believe a lie, we are damned by God, who judges us all by our works.

Therefore, this Christian doctrine of having saving faith set apart from our present works, is also impossible. It is Christian religion for the natural man, that does not receive the things of the spirit, because they do not believe in having spiritual works.

Once again, spiritual works judged by God are committing adultery in the heart by lusting, and filthiness of the mind.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[gpresdo]

While trying to escape their outward works being judged with their inward faith, some Christians are trying to teach a saving faith that does not exist. The reason no such faith exists, is because the Bible shows it's not possible for anyone alive on earth to ever be without works, which is to have no works at all.

Only the natural minded man that denies both soul and spirit, believes man is not doing anything, if not outwardly.

However the Bible teaches that our works are also spiritual as well as physical. Our thoughts and intents of heart are also works judged by God. Jesus teaches lusting is committing adultery in the heart, and evil surmisings are a work of the flesh.

Therefore any Christian preaching they can have saving faith or any kind of faith without works, is because they are the natural minded that believe works are only outward. Like the natural man, they deny the soul and spirit, by not believing man's works judged by God include our spiritual works within our hearts and minds.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Wicked works at enmity with God includes those of our minds. Therefore, it is impossible for any living person to be without works, because it is impossible for any thinking person to be without works. And so, it is impossible to have any faith without works of the spirit nor of the body.

The only ones having no works at all for God to judged, are dead bodies without the spirit, because corpses have ceased from thinking at all.

...good points....also ......"faith without works is dead"....scripture.

 

[Ghada]

Now that the Bible has dispensed with any possibility of having any faith in the heart, much less saving faith, without works or set apart from present works, what then exactly are some Christians teaching about having saving faith without any works or apart from their works?

Now we see how obvious it is: they are teaching a religion of being saved by faith alone, not without or apart from works, which is not Biblically possible, but rather they preach a salvation with present works, but they can be both good or bad.

They preach a Christian religion of salvation by faith, that has nothing to do with how they live. Which of course is hypocrisy, but also once again is not possible in the Bible, since our faith also is judged as works of this life.

Biblically, (Remember we're repeating what the Bible says, not what some people think), it's not possible to have faith without works, even as being alive without the spirit. It's not possible to have faith set apart from works, since believing and intending is a spiritual work of our heart. And so it's not possible to be saved by any faith without or set apart from our works.

And the Christian salvation that has nothing to do with how we live, is hypocrisy that the world understands perfectly and all too often,

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Not by any faith alone, since there is no such thing. Not to God nor His judgment by our works, that are inwardly first that only He can see, and outwardly also that any man can see.

 

[Ghada]

...good points....also ......"faith without works is dead"....scripture.

Yes, I will go back and make sure we know that this teaching is based first on James 2. Thanks.

 

[Ghada]

Since the Bible teaches our spirit also has works, that are judged by God, then teaching having any faith without works, is not only impossible, but also rejects the Bible teaching of being imputed righteousness by faith alone without works.

Afterall, what are heart believes and intends is our spiritual works, which is our faith. It's not possible therefore to be imputed anything by God by any faith with works, since having faith without works is not possible. (Not according to the Bible that is.)

Man can believe and teach a faith alone without works, and/or set apart from works, but even that belief and teaching are judged as works by God. And since they are not the Bible, then they are judged as wicked works of unbelief.

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Once again, belief and unbelief are works judged by God, and unbelief is judged as an evil work of the heart. Our works depart from God outwardly, only after our works depart from God inwardly.

Those not believing the Bible words, are those not believing the God of the Bible, and that God and Father judges such unbelief as a work of evil.

 

[MatthewG]

It's like a money piece, one heads and the other side tails.

It's Faith (beliving on the one whom Yahava sent) and Love (works).

It's not like you have to be forced to work either - it's the workmanship that you allow God to do in and through you. Which that work comes from the Holy Spirit / Spirit of Christ in you.

Galatians 6​

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New Living Translation​

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We Harvest What We Plant​

6 Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer[a] is overcome by some sin, you who are godly[b] should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself. 2 Share each other’s burdens, and in this way obey the law of Christ. 3 If you think you are too important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself. You are not that important.​

4 Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won’t need to compare yourself to anyone else. 5 For we are each responsible for our own conduct.​

6 Those who are taught the word of God should provide for their teachers, sharing all good things with them.​

7 Don’t be misled—you cannot mock the justice of God. You will always harvest what you plant. 8 Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit. 9 So let’s not get tired of doing what is good. At just the right time we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don’t give up. 10 Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone—especially to those in the family of faith.​

Paul’s Final Advice​

11 Notice what large letters i use as i write these closing words in my own handwriting.​

12 Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised want to look good to others. They don’t want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save. 13 And even those who advocate circumcision don’t keep the whole law themselves. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast about it and claim you as their disciples.​

14 As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross,[c] my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died. 15 It doesn’t matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation. 16 May God’s peace and mercy be upon all who live by this principle; they are the new people of God.[d]​

17 From now on, don’t let anyone trouble me with these things. For I bear on my body the scars that show I belong to Jesus.​

18 Dear brothers and sisters,[e] may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.​

 

[gpresdo]

If you will notice there is a common denominator in the....new age religion movement of......;

1) Cant do any works...even though the Bible KJV 1611 edition illustrates many references to our need of doing righteous works for Christ...including posting, guidance to proper Bible interpretation even here on this forum.

2) They say baptism is NOT necessary. Not true.....Acts 2;38 says....repent and be baptized, et al.

3) Universalism.....all will be saved. Not what the Bible says at all.

4) Once saved here on earth...always saved. Not true.
First we are not saved while here on earth...we are born again....... if we repent and are baptized and commit to a righteous life until..."the end" .....the Bible says, when
God judges us after death and declares us ...saved. Then it is forever.

5) (a new one...rumor has it) They are now teaching that we are not responsible to God's commandments and do not have to repent or live a righteous life....... Christ forgives automatically.
etc. Not true...if so...why does God give us unlimited # of times for sin forgiveness.

6) A sinner....drunk, homosexual, et al ...can be a minister and lead a congregation in a church.(methodist just adopted a host of new ok's). All directly violating clear scriptures.

et al.

....that common denominator is ........ that anyone adopting these new age religion interpretations....will loose eternal salvation.

Wait...... no doubt...... there are more coming.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Satan makes out that it's your works that James is on about.
But James is talking to the people who are born again in fact. not some idiots who do not understand the reality of the fact, that is this is the works of Christ that you abide in him and he in you ! not of your own works at all.

No one could be so stupid to think that James is talking about carnal works, it's not that at all.

 

[Bob Estey]

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

God in James 2 is not teaching against having faith without any works at all, because God in the Bible teaches that man cannot ever be without works at all in this life. If that were the case, how could God judge us by our works, if we can have no works to judge? All we need to do, is to do nothing at all, and escape the righteous judgment of God according to our works.

That is why some Christians trying to escape God's judgment of their works with their faith, are trying to teach a saving faith without works, which is impossible to have. The reason no such faith is possible in this life, is because the Bible shows it's not possible for anyone alive on earth to ever be without works, which is to have no works at all.

Only the natural minded man that denies both soul and spirit, believes man is not doing anything, if not outwardly.

However the Bible teaches that our works are also spiritual as well as physical. Our thoughts and intents of heart are also works judged by God. Jesus teaches lusting is committing adultery in the heart, and evil surmisings are a work of the flesh.

Therefore any Christian preaching they can have saving faith, or any kind of faith for that matter, without works, is because they are the natural minded that believe works are only outward. Like the natural man, they deny the soul and spirit, by not believing man's works judged by God include our spiritual works within our hearts and minds.

To have no works at all, according to the Bible, means having no faith at all, since thoughts and intents are judged as works by God.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Wicked works at enmity with God includes those of our minds. Therefore, it is impossible for any living person to be without works, because it is impossible for any thinking person to be without works. And so, it is impossible to have any faith without works of the spirit nor of the body.

The only ones having no works at all for God to judge, are dead bodies without the spirit, because corpses without the spirit have ceased from thinking and believing anything at all.

We need to have faith. We also need to obey God, which I would call "works." I've seen several threads about faith and works today.

 

[gpresdo]

We need to have faith. We also need to obey God, which I would call "works." I've seen several threads about faith and works today.

So right.
New age religion folks want that which is contrary to God's intent.

 

[Ghada]

We need to have faith. We also need to obey God, which I would call "works." I've seen several threads about faith and works today.

Which are Bible faith. Other gospels of faith without works are not Bible faith with works.

 

[gpresdo]

We need to have faith. We also need to obey God, which I would call "works." I've seen several threads about faith and works today.

God expects works. The reason He says..."faith without works is dead".

 

[Ghada]

It's like a money piece, one heads and the other side tails.

It's Faith (beliving on the one whom Yahava sent) and Love (works).

It's not like you have to be forced to work either - it's the workmanship that you allow God to do in and through you. Which that work comes from the Holy Spirit / Spirit of Christ in you.

This is true. Except that it's one coin with two heads, just like the Father and the Son. It's not that faith and works are 'equally important', but that there is not one without the other to be saved and justified with God, even as there is not One with the Other to be the Godhead.

Some Christians preach that works of faith are an add on to faith, but are not necessary to salvation by faith. That is why they oppose James 2 in preaching a gospel of saving faith without any works as being part of their salvation.

James 2 is not preaching against man having no works at all, because in the Bible that is not possible in this life. Not doing good is also a sin to God. For God in the Bible, He judges it is a sinful deed not to do good.

What is really be preached by some Christians is the obvious: they preach being saved by faith while sinning against God and man.

There is no such thing as man having no works at all in this life, because we are either doing good or evil, and so it is simply impossible to have faith without any works at all.

 

[Ghada]

If you will notice there is a common denominator in the....new age religion movement of......;3) Universalism.....all will be saved. Not what the Bible says at all.

This is exactly true. The gospel of being saved without judgemnt of our works, is the new age universalism of being divine within, while also sinning without.

It's all about judging ourselves worthy of God by our own belief in ourself, that forbids God from judging us by our works, and not just by what we believe about God and of ourselves.

That all ends in the grave, when God goes ahead and defies their faith and theology, and does exactly as He says He will do: The Father judges us all equally by our works.

1) Cant do any works...

This isn't precisely true. They teach that the works they do, have nothing to do with being saved and inwardly divine.

even though the Bible KJV 1611 edition illustrates many references to our need of doing righteous works for Christ...including posting, guidance to proper Bible interpretation even here on this forum.

This is also true. Works of ministry are including in the judgement of works by God. I Cor 3 confirms that works of ministry can be so bad, that we lead blind followers into the ditch, and all perish together.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

4) Once saved here on earth...always saved. Not true. First we are not saved while here on earth...we are born again....... if we repent and are baptized and commit to a righteous life until..."the end" .....the Bible says, when
God judges us after death and declares us ...saved. Then it is forever.

This is exactly true. Christians speak of having already been saved forever, just because the word of faith is sown in their heart by hearing alone. This leads to the necessary conclusion that all who hear and have ever heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, are already saved forever.

It's the Christian brand of universalism. And since they claim a divine nature having nothing to do with how they live, then that is Christian New Agism.

They do not acknowledge the verses that say we only inherit eternal salvation in the end, and it is only by obeying God's word in the end.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The truth of the Bible you show is that in this life, we are being saved and preserved, only so long as we are enduring and overcoming temptations, even as Jesus did.

For by grace are ye being saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Some Christians preach an ongoing process of repenting from sinning, to do less sinning, but never cease from sinning.

The Bible gospel is one of ongoing salvation by repenting and enduring temptation. The end reward is inheritance of eternal salvation by doing the will of God in the end.

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

We Christians can believe and teach anything we want about salvation, faith, works, and justification in this life. And we can also make whatever life we want out of our doctrine. But in the end, every man is judged by our works, and no man is resurrected unto life by God, without our works being judged righteous and holy and worthy as that of His Son Jesus Christ.

If we're not walking as Jesus in the end, then we also won't be walking with Jesus after the grave.

Some Christians teach walking as Jesus walked only after the grave. They teach the pure new birth of God in Christ Jesus, as not until after departing this life.

....that common denominator is ........ that anyone adopting these new age religion interpretations....will loose eternal salvation.

Strictly speaking according to your true teaching of the Bible. There is no eternal salvation to lose in this life, since it can only be obtained at the judgement and resurrection of the dead.

We can fail to be saved in this life, by not repenting and ceasing to sin through the power of God by the faith of Jesus in our hearts.

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[Ghada]

James 2 is not teaching having faith without works, as opposed to having faith with works. He is teaching having faith without works is impossible.

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Only babes and corpses have no works. Therefore it is impossible to have faith without doing any works at all. Neither babes nor corpses have any faith to do anything at all.

James 2 does not teach against any faith that is without works at all, which can only include babes and corpses. James 2 teaches against any faith that is also without good works.

There are plenty of faiths of man that include living sinfully, but they are not the faith of Jesus, which is the only faith of God that saves the soul and justifies the life lived..

Jesus in Matthew 12 & Mark 3, 1 John, and 3 John confirm that by not doing the will of God, we are not born of God, in His family, nor abiding forever with God.

The faith that James 2 is preaching against, is any faith that includes not doing good at any time.

 

[mailmandan]

"Faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims he has faith, but lacks resulting evidential works, then he demonstrates that he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith. We are made alive together with Christ by grace through faith FIRST then UNTO good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

The opposite of dead is alive. In Ephesians 2:5, we read - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).... 8-9 by grace through faith, not works, 10 created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works. Christ is the source of life in our faith. Faith must be alive first before it can produce works. Just as a tree must be alive first before it can produce fruit. Life flows through faith (root of salvation) and produces works (fruit of salvation) just as life flows through the root of a tree and produces fruit.

In Matthew 7:17-20, Jesus said - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Genuine good works are not produced by unbelievers but only by those who are created in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Apart from Christ we can do nothing. (John 15:4-5)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

God in James 2 is not teaching against having faith without any works at all, because God in the Bible teaches that man cannot ever be without works at all in this life. If that were the case, how could God judge us by our works, if we can have no works to judge? All we need to do, is to do nothing at all, and escape the righteous judgment of God according to our works.

That is why some Christians trying to escape God's judgment of their works with their faith, are trying to teach a saving faith without works, which is impossible to have. The reason no such faith is possible in this life, is because the Bible shows it's not possible for anyone alive on earth to ever be without works, which is to have no works at all.

Only the natural minded man that denies both soul and spirit, believes man is not doing anything, if not outwardly.

However the Bible teaches that our works are also spiritual as well as physical. Our thoughts and intents of heart are also works judged by God. Jesus teaches lusting is committing adultery in the heart, and evil surmisings are a work of the flesh.

Therefore any Christian preaching they can have saving faith, or any kind of faith for that matter, without works, is because they are the natural minded that believe works are only outward. Like the natural man, they deny the soul and spirit, by not believing man's works judged by God include our spiritual works within our hearts and minds.

To have no works at all, according to the Bible, means having no faith at all, since thoughts and intents are judged as works by God.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Wicked works at enmity with God includes those of our minds. Therefore, it is impossible for any living person to be without works, because it is impossible for any thinking person to be without works. And so, it is impossible to have any faith without works of the spirit nor of the body.

The only ones having no works at all for God to judge, are dead bodies without the spirit, because corpses without the spirit have ceased from thinking and believing anything at all.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9
Befire we are born again, all our righteous is like dirty rags. Our works to appease God all fail. It isn't until we are saved, that Jesus ( who fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us) imputes His righteousness to us, then we begin to demonstrate good works. The works are not what saved us. The Holy Spirit prepares works for us to do after we are saved AND it is The Holy Spirit Who works through us. This is what James was referring to, evidence that you have been saved results in good works.
Justification by faith affirms that good works necessarily follow from faith. The doctrine of justification by faith excludes our works of obedience to the law as a means or cause of our justification before God.

 

[gpresdo]

"Faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims he has faith, but lacks resulting evidential works, then he demonstrates that he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) and not authentic faith. We are made alive together with Christ by grace through faith FIRST then UNTO good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

The opposite of dead is alive. In Ephesians 2:5, we read - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).... 8-9 by grace through faith, not works, 10 created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works. Christ is the source of life in our faith. Faith must be alive first before it can produce works. Just as a tree must be alive first before it can produce fruit. Life flows through faith (root of salvation) and produces works (fruit of salvation) just as life flows through the root of a tree and produces fruit.

In Matthew 7:17-20, Jesus said - Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Genuine good works are not produced by unbelievers but only by those who are created in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Apart from Christ we can do nothing. (John 15:4-5)

There you go again. Trying to change scripture meaning and intent by injecting .....bad works.

Obviously God's word relates to good works...and is very doubtful it includes bad works......so what is your point again?

It seems you are converting this language to dead works (?) rather than God's intent of addressing the need to combine faith and works,(good)...(obviously).

 

[mailmandan]

There you go again. Trying to change scripture meaning and intent by injecting .....bad works.

Obviously God's word relates to good works...and is very doubtful it includes bad works......so what is your point again?

It seems you are converting this language to dead works (?) rather than God's intent of addressing the need to combine faith and works,(good)...(obviously).

It's like you did not understand a word I said. You obviously just don't get it and there is a reason for that.