James 2 No such thing as faith without works

[Behold]

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

See your verse?
Its describing RELIGION< not Christianity.

See, Christianity, is God become a man, to offer redemption to the World, through the Cross of Christ.

John 3:16..

And that is not a RELIGION, that is a REDEMPTION, that is offered as "The GIFT of Salvation".


You can visit the widows and the fatherless, and support them, and that does not make you a Christian.
It makes you RELIGIOUS, if you believe that by doing it, you are "serving a higher power".

 

[gpresdo]

You are not fooling me.

Until you follow the Bible you are fooled.

 

[gpresdo]

Jesus said that in :

John 14:6

You should read it.

1. John 14:6 ...​

   www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john 14:6...
   John 14:6.... 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Read full chapter. John 14:6 in all English translations. John 13. John 15.
   

   ​

   
   

 

[Behold]

John 14:6 ...​

. No one comes to the Father except through me.

= "except THROUGH Me"..

How do you go THROUGH Christ?

A.) our Faith is counted as HIS Righteousness, because our sin is become..."God hath made Jesus to BE SIN.....for us".

We have to become a part of Jesus, Spiritually., as that puts us "IN Christ", and that is how we go THROUGH Christ to God.

That is "the WAY"....

Or as Jesus told us..

"YOU Must be ...... BORN......again'"..... as this is how we become JOINED to Christ, which is to go Through Him, "the WAY".... to God.

 

[mailmandan]

Until you follow the Bible you are fooled.

I follow the Bible and not false teachers.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That's only because you do not not believe in the newborn conversion of Jesus Christ by repenting of sinning and beleiving in Him unto His righteousness.

Don't tell me what I believe! I believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day according to the scriptures - for 32 years now.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God.

Spiritually. Your flesh is to he reckoned dead ... but not yet.

Your gospel does not acknowledge believing from the heart unto doing God's righteousness, but by unbelief preaches that is impossible to be born into and to do.

Once again you misrepresent my beliefs.
STOP! I already s5ated in.my tha God prepares good works for us to do after we are born again and equipped to go out and minister. It takes time to become equipped.

Once again, your Christian religion idolizes people, rather than walking with Jesus as He walked.

Orthodox Christianity teaches that "
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not of works, lest anyone should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10

I suppose you boast when you do something good? Like the Pharisees who would march down the city streets clanging a cymbal to announce their good deeds on display for all to be impressed by - "Come out and look at us giving ... aren't we loving, aren't we wonderful!"

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28

 

[gpresdo]

= "except THROUGH Me"..

How do you go THROUGH Christ?

A.) our Faith is counted as HIS Righteousness, because our sin is become..."God hath made Jesus to BE SIN.....for us".

We have to become a part of Jesus, Spiritually., as that puts us "IN Christ", and that is how we go THROUGH Christ to God.

That is "the WAY"....

Or as Jesus told us..

"YOU Must be ...... BORN......again'"..... as this is how we become JOINED to Christ, which is to go Through Him, "the WAY".... to God.

Say your prayer and end with ...in Jesus' name... Amen. That's how we go through...Christ.

 

[gpresdo]

I follow the Bible and not false teachers.

Then don't follow yourself....to be true to that commitment.

 

[mailmandan]

Then don't follow yourself....to be true to that commitment.

Oh the irony. Grow up.

 

[mailmandan]

Ghada said:
It's your crusade that preaches faith alone. It's my response to show it's anti-Bible dead faith alone.

I already explained to you multiple times there is a difference between salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14-24) What part of God imputes righteousness apart from works and saved by grace through faith, not works don't you understand? Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved). It takes a living faith to produce good works (Ephesians 2:10) just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit. You place the cart before the horse.

I am a glad heretic against your gospel of faith alone. But it's not a crusade of mine, but only my response to yours.

Salvation by grace through faith, not works is not heresy. It's your gospel of works-salvation/works-righteousness that is heresy.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

We are only justified by works that please God, which is only pleasing to Him through the faith of Jesus Christ alone.

In the context of James 2:24, we are justified (shown to be righteous) by works and not justified (accounted as righteous) by works. (Romans 4:2-6) When Paul uses the term "justified" he is talking about the legal (judicial) act of God by which he accounts a believer as righteous. James however is using the term to describe those who show the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

This is the Bible gospel of repenting and believing in Jesus Christ alone.

When we repent unto salvation, we change our mind and believe in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 20:21)

Your gospel of not repenting and instead believing unto salvation by your own faith alone, is not the Bible gospel I preach.

I never said that we never repent prior to believing the gospel and I don't appreciate your false accusations. Faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation and not in works is the Bible gospel. (Acts 15:7-9; Romans 1:16; 4:5-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Dead faith alone without works pleasing to God, is not having faith in Christ alone.

You continue to remain confused about the "alone" part in faith in Christ alone for salvation. It means we have placed our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. It doesn't mean empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24) Saving faith is alive in Christ (Ephesians 2:5) and the believer is created in Christ Jesus unto good works (Ephesians 2:10) So although we are saved apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:6) saving faith in Christ does not remain alone, apart from the presence of works. (James 2:14-24) This is very difficult for works-salvationists to understand. (1 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

Your crusade to make it so, notwithstanding.

My crusade is to preach the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) I don't preach a "works based" false gospel. (Romans 11:6; Galatians 1:6-9)

We must add works to our faith to produce pleasing fruit of the Spirit to God, and ensure our salvation without falling unto the end.

Genuine good works glorify our father in heaven (Matthew 5:16) and are good and profitable to men. (Titus 3:8)

Your gospel of being saved by your own faith alone is not the gospel of 2 Peter 1 and James 2.

You still cannot grasp what is meant by salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) because you teach salvation by works, demonstrated through your eisegesis of 2 Peter 1 and James 2.

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,

You need to stop being rebellious. You still need to repent (change your mind) and believe the gospel (trust in Christ alone for salvation).

Unrepented sinners are still in rebellion to the commandment of God for all unbelievers everywhere to repent. (Acts 17)

I have already repented, and I already believe the gospel. (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21) Now it's time for you to do the same.

The Christian gospel of God commanding saved believers to repent, is not the Bible. Afterall, no unrepented sinner can even be a believer in God, much less saved by the faith of Jesus, that is only recieved by repenting first.

Repentance precedes saving faith in Christ. (Acts 20:21)

True. And those not trusting in His all-sufficient means to walk with Him and please God always as Him, is of course not trusting in Jesus Christ, but in another gospel of one's own faith alone without pleasing God by works.

So, you are not trusting in Christ's all-sufficient means of our salvation (death, burial and resurrection) to save you but in your walk and works to help Him save you. That could not be more obvious. It's your other gospel of works-righteousness that cannot save. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works.

embrace it are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

Ghada said:
Believers loving God from the heart, now only do works to please God. It is therefore impossible to be justified by God without pleasing Him by works done pleasing to Him.

You continue to confuse what it means to be "accounted as righteous" (Romans 4:2-3) with what it means to be "shown to be righteous." (James 2:21) your eisegesis results in contradiction here.

This is the gospel of James 2, where after doing the work pleasing to God, He can then call us a Friend of His, and no more a sinning enemy of the world. (James 4)

Salvation by works and sinless perfection is not the gospel of James 2 or 1 John 1:8-10. You are deceived.

In your gospel no. 2 Peter 1 and James 2 are neither needed nor desired by you.

I have no problem with 2 Peter 1 and James 2. It's your eisegesis that is neither needed nor desired by me.

Nor is Matthew 23:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Neither is 2 Cor 7:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

These verses do not teach sinless perfection. More eisegesis on your part.

The Christian gospel of sinning less outwardly, while never purified through obedience to God, is not the Bible. It's a doctrine for being less righteous Pharisees in outward works, rather than more righteous than the Pharisees by inward purity of soul and heart.

Speaking of Pharisees, you remind me of the Pharisee in the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. (Luke 18:9-14)

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

In regard to Romans 6:17, before they obeyed that form of doctrine by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16), they had been slaves to sin. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

1 Peter 1:22 notice - "Purified your souls in obeying the truth" and notice in Acts 15:9 - "Purified their hearts by faith." "Obeying the gospel" and "obeying that form of doctrine" in these passages is really a synonym for believing the gospel. Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

Such added works and supplements of faith, are rejected by the saved by faith alone gospel, without any such works and supplements added to their own faith alone.

Added works are only rejected as supplements to Christ's finished work of redemption as the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. Again, Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28) Your eisegesis culminates in salvation by works which is a perversion of the gospel and is not obeying the truth. Also, attacking Christians who believe the gospel is not loving others with a pure heart. You really need to examine yourself.

Such Christians do not believe in repenting first, nor in repenting to cease from sinning, nor in obeying the word to cleanse themselves within.

Your works salvation/sinless perfection gospel is "another" gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9) You have been deceived.

The Christian gospel of being saved by faith alone without repenting first, preaches having their filthy rags, while keeping their sinning, before, during, and after their Christian religion conversion.

You remain confused. The Christian gospel does not leave out repentance. For someone to say they have truly repented, but they don't believe the gospel is an oxymoron. Also, for someone to say they believe the gospel but have never repented is also an oxymoron. Sinless perfection is heresy.

 

[Behold]

Say your prayer and end with ...in Jesus' name... Amen. That's how we go through...Christ.

If you're not born again, and that prayer is not "Father I take Jesus to be my Savior, I believe" then your prayer just hit the ceiling and bounced to the floor and died.

 

[gpresdo]

If you're not born again, and that prayer is not "Father I take Jesus to be my Savior, I believe" then your prayer just hit the ceiling and bounced to the floor and died.

That is almost correct. But has nothing to do with the point in study here.

 

[Behold]

That is almost correct. But has nothing to do with the point in study here.

Ummmm, are we actually talking about the Thread's Topic, or the various opinions about it, or the various side trails?
As your recent posts have nothing to do with the Thread's Topic..

So, getting back to the OP's Thread's Topic..

The issue with most believers who are struggling to try to understand The Grace of God, is that they simply do not yet understand that :

Salvation is what God has provided as a Gift....... that we receive.........by faith.

That is not DISCIPLESHIP.

Discipleship, can be done, by an unbeliever, or a believer....
Discipleship is this .. = "present your body as a living sacrifice to God, which is your reasonable service".

See that? That is what WE DO.... whereas SALVATION is what GOD has provided through Christ.

Salvation is God presenting The Body of JESUS on the CROSS, 2000 yrs ago.
THAT.. is Salvation.

Discipleship is not that.... and most believers are trying to "discipleship" their Salvation, as if they are a part of it, as if they somehow have a part to play in the Cross.

We dont.

 

[Ghada]

God does not accept the works of a sinner, nor a saved one...

Not your saved one. Just as I've said. The unclean Christian conversion of latter day repentance, carries through filthy rags offering from before, during, and after.

God accepts nothing but the Cross of Christ, as the basis for accepting Us.

Your idol cross worship.

God does not accept any blood but that of the Lamb to wash us clean when repenting of sinning.

Now, there are those who dont understand Salvation, who will read that Jesus says..."im the only way to the Father".. and they will ignore that verse and instead teach what their CULT teaches,,..... that is always...

Saved by Water
Saved by Works

Saved by SELF EFFORT
Saved by Repenting.
Saved by Commandment keeping.


So, when we deal with this type of Cross denier, then we take note of who they are, and we recognize they are This ONE :

Luke 11:35

= A Dark Light.

And we do not listen to their Cross Rejecting, "Gospel of Works".. ."Gospel of Self saving".... and that is because these people are this...

Galatians 1:8

Either I've been here before, are you're now stuck on repeat mode.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that faith and love go hand in hand.


By the spirit of Christ are you able to love properly.

But also I believe one must be honest before God.




Paul is right about his fleshly nature; and the
More on goes to christ that ability to natrually want to sin slowly gets lowered. However it wont go completely away until you die.

Then there is also the issue of those who are outside the city gates who want nothing to fo with God.

 

[Ghada]

We are not saved from "sinning"

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Ok, you now officially preach another Christ of another gospel.

WE are saved from the Judgement that is on the sinner, because of their sin.

I've got your other gospel quotes, thanks.

The sinner, who trusts in Christ is saved from HELL, as Hell is the judgement that starts the eternal life of this one.

This one too.

John 3:36

See, its not SIN that damns you.

And this one.

its not being FORGIVEN, that is the damnation.

I have no clue what this means, but since you're on a roll, I keep this quote too.

Its "dying in your sins", as that proves that you never Trusted in Christ.... = NEVER born again.

True. No one dying while sinning are saved, born of God, trusting in the blood of Jesus....

What is the unpardonable sin? = Dying as a Christ rejector... never born again.

Which Christ? The one your preach or the Bible?

The Bible Christ demands we reject yours, that does not save us from sinning, but only covers it up, and proclaims no more condemnation for sinning.

 

[Ghada]

You can visit the widows and the fatherless, and support them, and that does not make you a Christian.
It makes you RELIGIOUS, if you believe that by doing it, you are "serving a higher power".

Of course you skip that little part about keeping ourselves without spot and sinning of the world. Your selectiveness with Bible verses is well documented.

 

[Behold]

Of course you skip that little part about keeping ourselves without spot and sinning of the world. Your selectiveness with Bible verses is well documented.

You didnt quote the verse because you dont know the verse.
So, what you did, was twist the verse into a work that you believe that you must do....

The verse says that Christ presents us, without spot.
You left Him out of your bizarre teaching, as you tend to do that, we've noticed.

So, your abused verse is saying that by us being "IN CHRIST".... where we come to perfection, ....'"
And that is not you doing it.. That is the perfecting of the Saints by the word of God through the power of Christ.

See, when you try to do that, you end up like this , = Jesus said...>"Apart from me, you can do nothing"...

You end up as an ACTOR, playing the role of your idea of "here is how i try to be like CHRIST".
Its a religious Mask.
Its a complete fake.

So, Here you go.... study this one.. and take your time.

""""As disciples, we are to come to perfection in Christ, so that there is no spot or blemish in us. “… that he might her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” Ephesians 5:27.

 

[Behold]

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Ok, you now officially preach another Christ of another gospel.

Damnation is not based on "sin".
Its based on unforgiveness of sin.

This :

John 3:36

So, being "saved from sin"...the context is this... to be "delivered from the power of sin".
That is different, and that is the context of the verse.
See, to be delivered from sin, is to be delivered from the LAW... "As the power of sin, is the LAW" and "the Law is the power of sin".

Thats a CURSE , and "Christ came to deliver/redeem us from the curse of the LAW"

Now...The born again, we do this... we "walk in the Spirit, so that we dont fulfill the lusts of the Flesh"

We understand that "he that is DEAD, is FREED FROM SIN">, and to be dead, is to be born again "in Christ"