James: explained

[justbyfaith]

Question. Are you saved by Jesus' blood, or baptism?

In Oneness circles, it has been mentioned that the blood is in the water (1 John 5:8).

But I would say that only believer's baptism would avail to secure one's salvation in the absolute sense of the word (Mark 16:16).

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

No he's not Behold, James is emphatically stating, that due to the unquantifiable nature of faith, like love, which cannot be measured or determined by statistics, it must therefore be validated by one's works.
Many were professing to have faith, but their works undermined their integrity. James was asserting that without works, salvation was unattainable, because the works, or lack of, discredited the faith.
Salvation is by faith alone, this is an extremely profound concept, for again, the veracity of one's faith cannot be assessed by a meter or graph. Thus, faith, like love, which equally cannot be measured or legislated, if you defy it's principles within your actions, then you have declared that you don't have faith.

By what standard is one considered to have veracity? Only God knows the relationship between himself and his children. I don't think that God is using an abacus to count our works. Perhaps I am missing something, or I have misunderstood you. That is not my intention.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

Those verse tell us what it takes to be saved. Did you notice it takes more than just faith/belief?

Sorry to keep repeating Scripture but....Faith without works is dead.

The problem is not that you post scripture, it's that your interpretation (courtesy of your church) is so egregiously wrong.

Let's start with John 5:25-29

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Evil people don't believe in Jesus ergo they do evil. They believe in Satan. Dead people who believed in Jesus/God go on to the resurrection as scripture says, the evil dead are headed for damnation.

Do you know what it means to exegete scripture? What is your hermeneutic?

 

[justbyfaith]

All have actually done evil (Romans 3:23, Galatians 3:22) and no one does good (Romans 3:12). Are then all raised unto the resurrection of damnation?

I'm testing you. The actual answer to this question is actually found somewhere buried in my thread that I now link you to:

Commentary on Romans.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

We are saved
By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?
By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?
By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?
By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?
By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?
By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?
By maintaining the faith (Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13)?
By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)?
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?
By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?
By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

Bible Study Mary

Where is the part about worshipping Mary and the Saints?

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

All have actually done evil (Romans 3:23, Galatians 3:22) and no one does good (Romans 3:12). Are then all raised unto the resurrection of damnation?

I'm testing you. The actual answer to this question is actually found somewhere buried in my thread that I now link you to:

Commentary on Romans.

I believe I was talking about John 5:25-29.

These are the words of Jesus Christ, not Paul. Jesus is reaffirming the judgment on the last day. We are all sinners. The emphasis here is on works that are evidence of belief, not that works save. The entire book of John focuses on John's primary teaching of believing in Jesus for eternal life.

Paul confirms it in Ephesians 2:8-9

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

One of faith does work in regards as to the Holy Spirit, it is not you doing the work, it is you abiding in the Holy Spirit only that is worthy.
Your own works are but filthy rags.

Look I am on a worldly trip ! look everyone can see my good works ? well good for you. Bible says such as that one is being payed now for such, but that type of works is not about the Holy Spirit or your salvation. that's just a mans works, like socialism is a mans works religion in fact and devoid of the Holy Spirit. because the fact is that Socialism does not emanate from the Holy Spirit at all.
Show me your faith without the Holy Spirit ?

What is faith ? well Bible does point out, Oh you of little faith ! and also talks about a faith that can move mountains, now that's the faith of the Holy Spirit is that only does that.

At the start of ones Christian beginning, one comes to have faith in the word of God, but sadly the weeds of this world do rise up and try to choke such, I have seen such in my younger days that most of the people who I went to Bible study with, just fell away from faith and then have come to me and said, You still don't believe all that rubbish do you ! yes I say, I have Total conviction I have much more strength in such than I ever did by far, my faith is solid conviction in Jesus Christ and you should see there face. I will talk with them till the cows come home on the subject if they want.
Now why would I talk to one as such, well it's not me that would bother, but it is the Holy Spirit that compels me to bother, if I see a glimmer of hope in them.
So is that a work ? it sure is, because it's a hard slog, I am going to try my best to help them come to Jesus Christ, as I see such is the most important thing in ones life by far, to be able to serve Christ Jesus, it's the most truly rewarding thing one will ever have.
I feel for people who are lost, I hope for them to have what I have.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Spurgeon's Girl,

In John 5:29, it appears to say that those who have done evil will be raised unto damnation. And those who have done good will be raised unto life everlasting.

Does this not mean that all will be raised unto damnation; since all have done evil (Romans 3:23) and none have done good (Romans 3:12)?

Again, I am testing you: the answer is found in the thread that I have linked you to.

Commentary on Romans.

 

[farouk]

In Oneness circles, it has been mentioned that the blood is in the water (1 John 5:8).

But I would say that only believer's baptism would avail to secure one's salvation in the absolute sense of the word (Mark 16:16).

Baptism is a symbol for those who do believe. It is not done supposedly for them to become believers; this is clear from Acts 2.41.

 

[justbyfaith]

Baptism is a symbol for those who do believe. It is not done supposedly for them to become believers; this is clear from Acts 2.41.

Believing in Jesus means that you "should not perish" (John 3:16)...iffy.

Believing and being baptized means that you "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16)...much more absolute.

My take on believer's baptism is that you believe and repent and this brings justification.

Sanctification for that believer will be a process from that point forward.

But if, after believing and repenting, you are baptized in the name of Jesus "for the remission of sins" (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39)...

That is automatic sanctification for the one who does so in faith.

Their sins go into remission like cancer might go into remission.

They are no longer of consequence....they are not powerful enough in the believer's life to bring about their wages (see Romans 6:23).

The believer who is baptized not only receives remission of sins but is absolutely promised the gift of the Holy Ghost....who is power to live the Christian life...and remission of sins is closely interconnected with this reality...because for the one who has "faith in the operation of God" (Colossians 2:12 (kjv)), sanctification can be accomplished in a very complete sense...as it is written in 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, and 1 John 3:9; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, and 1 John 2:6.

The person can begin to walk in freedom from sin (John 8:31-36) and victory over sin (1 Corinthians 15:57).

Of course there must be real repentance preceding the baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins.

Repentance is what most would call salvation...

But really, remission of sins is promised when, after believing and repenting, you are baptized in the name of Jesus for the same.

You can wait for years of a process what the Lord wants to give you in a moment of time...and if you opt for the process, you may never reach "the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:13).

But there is indeed a "magic" in the promise....

In fulfilling the conditions of the promise in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, God will be sure to give to you the promise associated with those conditions..."remission of sins" and "the gift of the Holy Ghost" (see also Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

 

[farouk]

Believing in Jesus means that you "should not perish" (John 3:16)...iffy.

Believing and being baptized means that you "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16)...much more absolute.

My take on believer's baptism is that you believe and repent and this brings justification.

Sanctification for that believer will be a process from that point forward.

But if, after believing and repenting, you are baptized in the name of Jesus "for the remission of sins" (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39)...

That is automatic sanctification for the one who does so in faith.

Their sins go into remission like cancer might go into remission.

They are no longer of consequence....they are not powerful enough in the believer's life to bring about their wages (see Romans 6:23).

The believer who is baptized not only receives remission of sins but is absolutely promised the gift of the Holy Ghost....who is power to live the Christian life...and remission of sins is closely interconnected with this reality...because for the one who has "faith in the operation of God" (Colossians 2:12 (kjv)), sanctification can be accomplished in a very complete sense...as it is written in 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, and 1 John 3:9; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, and 1 John 2:6.

The person can begin to walk in freedom from sin (John 8:31-36) and victory over sin (1 Corinthians 15:57).

Of course there must be real repentance preceding the baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins.

Repentance is what most would call salvation...

But really, remission of sins is promised when, after believing and repenting, you are baptized in the name of Jesus for the same.

You can wait for years of a process what the Lord wants to give you in a moment of time...and if you opt for the process, you may never reach "the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:13).

But there is indeed a "magic" in the promise....

In fulfilling the conditions of the promise in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, God will be sure to give to you the promise associated with those conditions...the gift of the Holy Ghost (see also Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

"For the remission of sins" means, as I understand it, "on account of the remission of sins", not baptism in order that sins might supposedly remitted.

 

[justbyfaith]

"For the remission of sins" means, as I understand it, "on account of the remission of sins", not baptism in order that sins might supposedly remitted.

This is what I consider to be a fallacy in interpreting the word...eisegesis....reading into the text what we want it to say rather than believing the text and pulling from it what it does say....exegesis.

Some will even go so far as to say that what we read in the kjv is not according to the original Greek...

We have gone through this argument before.

I believe that the common people heard Jesus gladly, but the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Him.

Therefore, ought we to rely on the educated Greek and Hebrew scholar to tell us what was prayed about extensively when the kjv was brought into existence?

As the common man, I believe that Jesus gave me His word in the unadulterated sense in the language that I understand...my common language.

The kjv is actually the only Bible that I trust...so many others do in fact water down what is written and take away whole phrases, sentences, entire verses, and entire passages out of the text that is given to me...and I for one do not want to be cheated out of something that the Holy Ghost might want to say to me through His word.

 

[farouk]

This is what I consider to be a fallacy in interpreting the word...eisegesis....reading into the text what we want it to say rather than believing the text and pulling from it what it does say....exegesis.

Some will even go so far as to say that what we read in the kjv is not according to the original Greek...

We have gone through this argument before.

I believe that the common people heard Jesus gladly, but the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Him.

Therefore, ought we to rely on the educated Greek and Hebrew scholar to tell us what was prayed about extensively when the kjv was brought into existence?

As the common man, I believe that Jesus gave me His word in the unadulterated sense in the language that I understand...my common language.

The kjv is actually the only Bible that I trust...so many others do in fact water down what is written and take away whole phrases, sentences, entire verses, and entire passages out of the text that is given to me...and I for one do not want to be cheated out of something that the Holy Ghost might want to say to me through His word.

If you are teaching that our sins are not remitted until baptism, then I cannot accept that. I do love and use the KJV.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you are teaching that our sins are not remitted until baptism, then I cannot accept that. I do love and use the KJV.

It does in fact appear to be what the text is clearly saying.

As for what I am teaching, I think that I made it clear...

That entire sanctification can be accomplished in a moment of time through baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins; when if you don't receive such a baptism, it appears that you have to wait for the same thing to be accomplished through a lifelong process that may never actually be completed until you receive your "glorified body".

But that a man can indeed be sanctified wholly in this lifetime is evident in many scriptures...

Such as 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, Colossians 2:11 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (nlt).

 

[farouk]

It does in fact appear to be what the text is clearly saying.

As for what I am teaching, I think that I made it clear...

That entire sanctification can be accomplished in a moment of time through baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins; when if you don't receive such a baptism, it appears that you have to wait for the same thing to be accomplished through a lifelong process that may never actually be completed until you receive your "glorified body".

But that a man can indeed be sanctified wholly in this lifetime is evident in many scriptures...

Such as 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9;

Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10;

1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6;

1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, Colossians 2:11 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (nlt).

So: when the clergy say: hurry up and baptize someone in case s/he dies without having sins remitted, you would go along with them? really??

 

[justbyfaith]

So: when the clergy say: hurry up and baptize someone in case s/he dies without having sins remitted, you would go along with them? really??

What's it going to hurt if I go along with them? If they're right, the person's sins will be remitted before they die because of the hurry. If they're wrong, there is no harm done even if we baptize the person by my estimation.

 

[Marymog]

Where is the part about worshipping Mary and the Saints?

Where is the part I ever said that worshiping Mary and the Saints saves you?

Where have I ever said I worship Mary or Saints?

Where has The Church ever taught that we have to worship Mary or Saints?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

The problem is not that you post scripture, it's that your interpretation (courtesy of your church) is so egregiously wrong.

Let's start with John 5:25-29

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Evil people don't believe in Jesus ergo they do evil. They believe in Satan. Dead people who believed in Jesus/God go on to the resurrection as scripture says, the evil dead are headed for damnation.

Do you know what it means to exegete scripture? What is your hermeneutic?

Hmmmmm.......in the 2,000 years of The Church NONE of the biblical Scholars that The Church relied on knew how to exegete Scripture nor did they know anything about hermeneutics.....Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that????

 

[Marymog]

Question. Are you saved by Jesus' blood, or baptism?

Both....and more....just like scripture says.

 

[DNB]

The thief on the Cross is an example of one who attained to salvation without any works.

Again, Ephesians 2:8-9 (kjv), Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 4:5-6 (kjv), and Romans 11:5-6 (kjv), all testify to the fact that we are saved apart from works in the big picture.

Works are only the icing on the cake...they are the sure result of a genuine faith if that faith is given the opportunity to be exercised.

But in the case of a deathbed conversion, wherein a man calls on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12) and then dies one minute later, I know that the scripture testifies to the fact that his last breath on earth is his first breath in heaven; though his life was devoid of any works.

You're joking, right? You read my post, and determined that I was advocating that salvation is derived from works?